sgtfda
Bronze Member
Matt that would only prove Dick Holmes had rich ore in his possession. Not where he obtained it.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Matt that would only prove Dick Holmes had rich ore in his possession. Not where he obtained it.
Matt that would only prove Dick Holmes had rich ore in his possession. Not where he obtained it.
Matt that would only prove Dick Holmes had rich ore in his possession. Not where he obtained it.
so dirty dutch is arum? and he didn't even say hello...
I was kinda hoping he was chuck olsen...oh well...
Matt that would only prove Dick Holmes had rich ore in his possession. Not where he obtained it.
sgtfda,
Yes that's true, but to assume that you would have to ignore the fact the only place Dick and Brownie Holmes ever said the gold came from was under Waltz's bed.
And ignore Julia's claim that Holmes stole it fom under Waltz's bed.
And even if none of them ever said where it came from, no one could prove it DIDN'T come from under Waltz's bed.
If you DON'T believe in the Holmes account, then yes, that ore could have came from anywhere.
That is why I stated if you believe or disbelieve the Holmes account, you will have a whole different perspective. I was specific in saying, for those who DO believe in the Dick Holmes Waltz deathbed account.
Matthew K. Roberts
I think I'll just be the undecided Juror. A lot of circumstantial evidence based on hearsay, either way makes a good case.
Perhaps when I can hold the Wholly Frying Pan in my hands I'll lean towards believing the Dick Holmes account.
I think I'll just be the undecided Juror. A lot of circumstantial evidence based on hearsay, either way makes a good case.
Perhaps when I can hold the Wholly Frying Pan in my hands I'll lean towards believing the Dick Holmes account.
Travis perhaps he was angry because Julia was selling tickets to see him die. His revenge was to give the box to Holmes.
Hello,
I believe Dick Holmes received the "directions" and the box of Ore from Jacob Waltz while Waltz was on his deathbed. I do not believe the "murder" version in the Manuscript.
I believe Waltz willingly gave the ore to Holmes, but his intention was for Holmes to SHARE it with Julia and find the mine together. For whatever reason, Holmes decided to keep his info to himself. (my opinion)
Both sets of directions are "incomplete" without each other. It doesn't take much research to figure this out.
Thanks
Travis
Travis,
Yes I also believe Waltz gave the ore to Holmes, as Holmes and Gideon Roberts were present, Julia was absent, and Waltz knew he only had a short time left. Whether Waltz said it or implied it, I also believe he meant for Julia to share in that ore. Maybe Waltz never said it in so many words thinking Holmes must know that, and Holmes took it that Waltz meant the ore for him (Holmes). Maybe Holmes thought he would use the ore to fund a search for the mine and share the profits from the mine with Julia. We don't know what everyone's intentions were. Often words and actions do not accurately convey our intentions or what we mean. Interpretations 122 years after the fact pale in comparison.
sgtfda,
I don't believe Julia ever actually "sold tickets" while Waltz was dying. It would have been logical however for Julia to take donations from friends, neighbors and interested townspeople to help pay for a funeral for Waltz. That is what I think she did, accept donations for a burial and somehow it got interpreted as "selling tickets". It was a Saturday night and Saturday nights were when everyone was in town, shopping, dining, gambling, drinking and living it up. The town was probably packed with people and word spreads fast in a small community, word of Waltz's impending demise probably brought a host of friends and curious to Julia's door. Julia may have seen the opportunity to have waltz's friends and neighbors pay for his burial.
Robert Allen was not the first, or only Dutchman author / newspaper man to have used Frank Alkire and the Julia selling tickets account. No one was there that night so we cannot say what exactly happened. Robert Allen's book and an article in the Sunday supplement to the Arizona Republican told that story in detail, first in the 1930's and again in the early 1960's. All of Alkire's children, relatives and friends were alive, present and active in Phoenix, including Frank Alkire himself during those times, and none of them, none of them, not one, ever refuted a single word of the accounts. I was not present so I can only guess at what transpired and form my opinion. Everyone is free to do the same.
Matthew Roberts