Eagle Button

[fyrffytr1]

This should be an easy one to ID. I found it here in South Georgia last fall. I know it looks like a general issue button but, the wing tips point slightly downward in stead of straight out or up. I found it at a site that existed fron 1842 until 1871.
Backmark is: "Horstmann Bros & Co. Phila"

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

There where different variations in the wings and shields caused by the different manufacturers. At least that my opinion.

Here are the Horstmann backmarks.

 

[Breezie]

It's my understanding after W.H. Horstmann's death in 1850, the firm continued as W.H. Horstmann & Sons. Does this mean all the buttons marked just Horstmann like the one pictured below were made before 1850? (Buttons are too confusing to me; I much prefer Victorian antiques. LOL) Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It's my understanding after W.H. Horstmann's death in 1850, the firm continued as W.H. Horstmann & Sons. Does this mean all the buttons marked just Horstmann like the one pictured below were made before 1850? (Buttons are too confusing to me; I much prefer Victorian antiques. LOL) Breezie

I dont know but your HORSTMANN. PHILADA * backmark is not listed.

 

[Breezie]

It's my understanding after W.H. Horstmann's death in 1850, the firm continued as W.H. Horstmann & Sons. Does this mean all the buttons marked just Horstmann like the one pictured below were made before 1850? (Buttons are too confusing to me; I much prefer Victorian antiques. LOL) Breezie

I dont know but your HORSTMANN. PHILADA * backmark is not listed.

BCH, I know . . .I'm sitting here with McGuinn's book, and can't find it. I did read the & Sons was after 1850, but I think this button is newer. The backmark looks to be PHILAD with a funky A at the end. Actually, it is a smaller "A" with 2 dots under it; whatever that means. Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Breezie, after a button is (#1) identified, it can be (#2)dated by its backmark. I dont know when the HORSTMANN. PHILADA * backmark was used because its not listed.

A quick search through my button tin, reveals another different Horstmann backmark. Apparently this Horstmann list is not complete. http://pw1.netcom.com/~jimyce/bm.html Its a Great Seal button.

W.H. HORSTMANN & CO. * PHILA, PA. *

 

[nova treasure]

I believe the button in question and the one breezie has shown is probably 1875 to 1893. There are several details that can change the time frame on a backmark. I personally do not have any books and only go by my own personal finds and info that i have collected . I definetly need to buy several books to help confirm what info I have. Here is alittle info about the Horstmann Backmarks and some other info on how to help identify eagle buttons.

W H Horstmann & sons 1843 to 1894 (this is when the sons William and Sigmond became partners
Horstmann Sons & Drucker 1845 to 1849
Horstmann Brothers (1859 to 1893) These "brothers" are the sons of W H Horstmann working together after the founders death.
Horstmann Brothers & Allien 1850 to 1877 , this is the brothers (sons of WH) working with Henry V Allien, after the founders death.

Civil War period buttons have a shield level with the rest of the eagle, while those made after 1875 have a raised shield. After 1902 modern style uniform buttons with the Great Seal of the United States, replaced the Civil War type eagles.

Bill

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

There is no doubt its a post CW era button. I think his question is about the wings being different.

I think its a manufacturers preference or defect. If anyone has this exact Horstmann backmark we can compare the wings.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

According to my list, its an 1859-1863 backmark. Its not unusual to have an older backmark on a button because they used up the old stock. I have late 1800's backmarks on 1902Great Seal buttons like the one I posted.

I dont have any button books either, only the research I save. My guess is its a very early Indian Wars button and the artist botched the wings and Horstmann later corrected it. Thats my guess.

 

[Kieth-Tx]

This button has puzzled me in the past...mainly because of the number of feathers (6). Hope someone solves this one.

 

[Breezie]

Thanks Nova & BCH for the valuable information. I'm with Kieth, I hope we can solve this one. Breezie

 

[Kieth-Tx]

I went completely through Alberts....didn't see it. The problem with identifying the button are: Arrows in left talon, drooped wing tips, number of feathers, wing position. Using these four identifiers...I could not get a match.

 

[fyrffytr1]

According to Mr. Troiani it is an 1880-1890s US eagle button.