EMI or Ground balance?

[sprailroad]

I did run into a EMI thing the other day. The 800 would NOT stop chattering no matter what I did, Noise cancel? Yep, a few times, Ground balance? the same, reduce depth? Yes, turned machine off, then on again, same thing. Here's the weird thing, I've been over this same area of this park many times, with single Freq. and FBS machines, no real problem, and I HAVE been over it with the EQ already before. The thought did cross my mind to wrap the machine around a tree, but then figured that the "tree wrap" should more likely be the operator instead. Different part of the park later, nice and quiet, pleasant time. Could it be that the EQ is far more sensitive to EMI then others? I do not know. It was just a strange thing. One note of interest perhaps, is that at home I removed the coil cover, to clean it out, which I did Between the early morning EMI thing, and the late afternoon session, thinking perhaps black sand or Something had gotten in there?, anyway, the BOTTOM of the coil is like something I have never seen before on any coil, very different, not solid like others, which I'm thinking, that after time what with dirt, sand etc. that can get between the coil and cover, it may pay to clean it out more often. If you have not already done so, take a look, and you'll see what it is I'm talking about. Nothing wrong with it, just very different.

 

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[Juiceman]

I am questioning whether Minelab has a Shielding issue with the Equinox. I was at a park yesterday where houses back up to the park. every time I got within 50 feet or so of the fence line where the houses were I got what I call EMI some houses were worse than others (Wi-Fi?) I don't know what it is but my $300 machine works flawlessly in the same areas. I have found that using single frequency helps but that is not why I paid $900 for a multi-frequency machine. Not bashing Minelab those are just real world observations. I know people say they find things that others don't with the NOX but that has not been my experience. My $300 machine will find anything I have found with the 800. Perhaps it is lack of information from Minelab on how this thing really works? Obviously this machine is different than most others but I personally have not seen how it is "better" than other machines.

I did run into a EMI thing the other day. The 800 would NOT stop chattering no matter what I did, Noise cancel? Yep, a few times, Ground balance? the same, reduce depth? Yes, turned machine off, then on again, same thing. Here's the weird thing, I've been over this same area of this park many times, with single Freq. and FBS machines, no real problem, and I HAVE been over it with the EQ already before. The thought did cross my mind to wrap the machine around a tree, but then figured that the "tree wrap" should more likely be the operator instead. Different part of the park later, nice and quiet, pleasant time. Could it be that the EQ is far more sensitive to EMI then others? I do not know. It was just a strange thing. One note of interest perhaps, is that at home I removed the coil cover, to clean it out, which I did Between the early morning EMI thing, and the late afternoon session, thinking perhaps black sand or Something had gotten in there?, anyway, the BOTTOM of the coil is like something I have never seen before on any coil, very different, not solid like others, which I'm thinking, that after time what with dirt, sand etc. that can get between the coil and cover, it may pay to clean it out more often. If you have not already done so, take a look, and you'll see what it is I'm talking about. Nothing wrong with it, just very different.

 

[vferrari]

I am questioning whether Minelab has a Shielding issue with the Equinox. I was at a park yesterday where houses back up to the park. every time I got within 50 feet or so of the fence line where the houses were I got what I call EMI some houses were worse than others (Wi-Fi?) I don't know what it is but my $300 machine works flawlessly in the same areas. I have found that using single frequency helps but that is not why I paid $900 for a multi-frequency machine. Not bashing Minelab those are just real world observations. I know people say they find things that others don't with the NOX but that has not been my experience. My $300 machine will find anything I have found with the 800. Perhaps it is lack of information from Minelab on how this thing really works? Obviously this machine is different than most others but I personally have not seen how it is "better" than other machines.

That does sound bad and not at all what I have witnessed from my machine or from others. Calabash has notoriously bad EMI at his house and does not need to go single frequency. He can also operate the new 6 inch coil near 20 sensitivity there.

If it were a general design issue I think we would be hearing from more people about similar issues. That just doesn't seem to be the case. Your situations seem extreme (this recent post and your previous cell tower post) to the point that maybe there is an issue with your particular machine. I would suggest that if you have the same issue folliwing a factory reset, giving ML a call and get a warranty replacement. If your second machine suffers the same issues then you'll have your answer and it will not cost you anything to do that and you should be able to recoup most of your $900 on resale should you decide to bail on it. Hopefully, it is just a one off issue and the 2nd machine addresses your problem, you certainly should not have to be operating single frequency everywhere. At the beach I have noticed chattiness near the hotels but can still address it with just a little reduction in sensitivity and do not have the issue on the rest of the beach. So I can understand chattiness near houses but if it constantly overwhelms to the point of having to go to single frequency, yeah, that is not why you got the Equinox. Though I did pay over 1000+ for a couple of my premium single frequency machines.

 

[Ogre1190]

I work a large, old athletic complex (football field, track, tennis courts, open areas) in a residential area that's near a RR yard. There are about six areas in there where EMI really gets my 600 chattering. Don't ask me how or why, but...a noise cancel, followed by a SECOND noise cancel, seems to work every time. Fluke? I dunno. 😐

 

[vferrari]

I work a large, old athletic complex (football field, track, tennis courts, open areas) in a residential area that's near a RR yard. There are about six areas in there where EMI really gets my 600 chattering. Don't ask me how or why, but...a noise cancel, followed by a SECOND noise cancel, seems to work every time. Fluke? I dunno. ��

Not really, the transient nature of EMI often means the auto cancel may not catch the quietest channel on the first (or even second) go round.

That reminds me that on the 800 in bad EMI situations (e g., under power lines), I often find I can find a quieter frequency using manual vice auto noise cancel.

 

[sprailroad]

A follow up on the EMI problem I had. OK, here goes, I went to the same park again today, ran into a second area of the park where the 800 went nuts again. As before, noise cancel, 3 or 4 times, did ground balances, or tried to, different modes, no change, reduced sensitivity, nope, tried single freq. of 5, no again, chattered so bad, could not detect, kept moving, became quiet, re-entered the "Twilight Zone", non stop chatter again, and both these area's were good size. This is a fairly large park, that I have detected 100's? of times over the years, never a problem like this. This is now two different areas of the park that this has happened. Power lines? nope, detected under them near the street, no problem. After going home, decided to go back to that same area with the 800 and the Safari. The 800, happened all over again, turned it off, returned to the car and fired up the Safari, noise cancel, had no problem at all, just as so many times before. Fella's, I am at a loss, IS there something I'm missing? Re read the manual, only thing I did NOT do was a manual noise cancel. It's like now I'm not so sure I would take the 800 out of town to a site say a couple of hours away. I just cannot explain it. Hate the thought of sending in to minilab to be checked, it would be a great disappointment after waiting what 15 weeks for it. Again if it were a place I had never been to before, I might think that "man, there is SOMETHING going on here", but I have used four other detectors there, with no problems. I will try a "factory re-set" as mentioned by vferrari, but as of today, not to hopeful.

 

[sprailroad]

A follow up to my follow up; Returned to the park again to the same place. First, tried a Minelab X-Terra 70, with 18Khz coil, noise cancel, ground balance, started detecting toward the "Twilight Zone", entered that area, no problem. Next, Minelab Safari, noise cancel, both ground balance and sensitivity left in auto, began detecting as before, no problem. Next I took a old Garrett GTA 1000, simple turn on a go, everything factory pre-set, started detecting in all metal, started to chatter a little in that area, switched to what was called "beach mode" on the machine, no problem. Now, the 800, night before did a factory re-set, so, started in Park 2, factory settings, noise cancel, ground balance, sensitivity at 20, began detecting, entered "that" area, it went nuts, so this time I did noise cancel again only this time in manual, all 19 of channels, no help. Then I remembered something vferrari had said about sensitivity, noise to target ratio I think?, I had reduced it before, (the sensitivity) but by the time I tried that, after everything else, I was feeling a little burned out with what was going on, and only went from 20 to 17, but this time went from 20, 19, 18, 17, 16, at 15 it was almost quiet, and at 14 was stable. Had to dip to 12 for a few minutes but no longer, during this time the noise channel went from 8 I think from where I started to around -6 in the trouble area back to up where I started. Ground balance made big changes as well. SO....It was a feel good moment for me, in that when all else fails, the sensitivity level. Now, this has never happened before anywhere I have used this machine, but IF it should, something to remember. Now it COULD be that the EQ is SOOO...much more sensitive to everything around it, including targets, it may need a little more petting now and then. And it COULD be that the other machines did not react in the same way because they were not as sensitive to the ground etc. including some targets that I have found more of with the EQ. Now I still want to do the same thing with the AT Pro at that same place, but more so with a friends EQ 600. If IT reacts the same way, then it may very well be the nature of the EQ series, if not, if his remains stable with out the need to reduce sensitivity, well then...……….I don't know, my machine only? but right now, I'm thinking that it may not be so. I'll know in a couple of days.

 

[Iron Buzz]

A follow up to my follow up; Returned to the park again to the same place. First, tried a Minelab X-Terra 70, with 18Khz coil, noise cancel, ground balance, started detecting toward the "Twilight Zone", entered that area, no problem. Next, Minelab Safari, noise cancel, both ground balance and sensitivity left in auto, began detecting as before, no problem. Next I took a old Garrett GTA 1000, simple turn on a go, everything factory pre-set, started detecting in all metal, started to chatter a little in that area, switched to what was called "beach mode" on the machine, no problem. Now, the 800, night before did a factory re-set, so, started in Park 2, factory settings, noise cancel, ground balance, sensitivity at 20, began detecting, entered "that" area, it went nuts, so this time I did noise cancel again only this time in manual, all 19 of channels, no help. Then I remembered something vferrari had said about sensitivity, noise to target ratio I think?, I had reduced it before, (the sensitivity) but by the time I tried that, after everything else, I was feeling a little burned out with what was going on, and only went from 20 to 17, but this time went from 20, 19, 18, 17, 16, at 15 it was almost quiet, and at 14 was stable. Had to dip to 12 for a few minutes but no longer, during this time the noise channel went from 8 I think from where I started to around -6 in the trouble area back to up where I started. Ground balance made big changes as well. SO....It was a feel good moment for me, in that when all else fails, the sensitivity level. Now, this has never happened before anywhere I have used this machine, but IF it should, something to remember. Now it COULD be that the EQ is SOOO...much more sensitive to everything around it, including targets, it may need a little more petting now and then. And it COULD be that the other machines did not react in the same way because they were not as sensitive to the ground etc. including some targets that I have found more of with the EQ. Now I still want to do the same thing with the AT Pro at that same place, but more so with a friends EQ 600. If IT reacts the same way, then it may very well be the nature of the EQ series, if not, if his remains stable with out the need to reduce sensitivity, well then...……….I don't know, my machine only? but right now, I'm thinking that it may not be so. I'll know in a couple of days.

Next question is... will the EQ at 14 Sensitivity find the same targets and same depth that the other machines will? Or are you suffering depth by reducing it that much?

 

[vferrari]

Next question is... will the EQ at 14 Sensitivity find the same targets and same depth that the other machines will? Or are you suffering depth by reducing it that much?

Good question, also depends on whether the site trash conditions necessitate the higher recovery speed vs. what the other machines have to offer. If you can't separate the targets, depth doesn't matter. But in general most folks aren't typically having to hunt in bed o' nails conditions, so depth is usually king when looking for old targets.