"FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Oroblanco · Dec 3, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Its spelled g-o-v-e-r-n-m-e-n-t calling them neos, dems, libs, repubs, right-wings, commies or whatever is just a way to keep one's head in the sand.

Absolutely true! Those various flavors of government ALL act as though we are all "looters" stealing from the government.

I pull down my pants and proceed to moon him. Then I drag the wad across my butt and then stick it in my pocket.

Well that is a tactic we all should try!

I have to admit doing something similar once, not quite to the point of dropping the drawers but did tell the tourist the reason I was digging was to take a dump. He seemed to have lost his curiosity instantly...

Oroblanco

roswellborn · Dec 9, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

I googled Dave Ross - and Florida and DEP ("environmental protection?" - why don't they call it the Parks Dept since that's what it seems to be. sheesh)

Found this article:
http://www.thenewscaster.com/news_page.htm

Here's the last paragraph - (?)

"The Newscaster has learned that in the State of Florida it is illegal to pick up anything over 50 years old on state property or under the high tide mark. Artifacts, bottles, any boat part under the water, coins, jewelry are off limits. A fossil permit is needed for fossil collecting."

So how do they (legally) allow beach hunting

Seems as if anything besides pulltabs and ol' cans are forbidden. And even the cans are iffy if you can't tell if they're over 50 yrs old. Geez.

Nan

diggummup · Dec 9, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

roswellborn said:
I googled Dave Ross - and Florida and DEP ("environmental protection?" - why don't they call it the Parks Dept since that's what it seems to be. sheesh)

Found this article:
http://www.thenewscaster.com/news_page.htm

Here's the last paragraph - (?)

"The Newscaster has learned that in the State of Florida it is illegal to pick up anything over 50 years old on state property or under the high tide mark. Artifacts, bottles, any boat part under the water, coins, jewelry are off limits. A fossil permit is needed for fossil collecting."

So how do they (legally) allow beach hunting Seems as if anything besides pulltabs and ol' cans are forbidden. And even the cans are iffy if you can't tell if they're over 50 yrs old. Geez.

Nan

Don't worry,this is what the rest of the nation has to look forward to.This country isn't what it used to be,believe it...... or not!!!

Bigcypresshunter · Dec 9, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

I believe it may be illegal to find anything over 50 years old on the beach (state property) in Florida below the high tide line. My question is if a 1955 quarter or penny shows up in your scoop, what are we supposed to do? Throw it back down in the hole and bury it?

What about finds above the high tide (water) line?

r49miner · Dec 9, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Maybe, just maybe if everyone wrote letters to your Congressman, Senaters, your State officials and your local officials. Maybe something can be done.

Good read at Gold Dredgers . Com Political/Very Important Read.

roswellborn · Dec 10, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

bigcypresshunter said:
I believe it may be illegal to find anything over 50 years old on the beach (state property) in Florida below the high tide line. My question is if a 1955 quarter or penny shows up in your scoop, what are we supposed to do? Throw it back down in the hole and bury it?

What about finds above the high tide (water) line?

Exactly! (about the 1955 coin)

I have no idea about the above high tide line - don't detectorists actually go IN the water? What about what they find?! Throw it back?

sheesh
Nan

Bigcypresshunter · Dec 10, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

roswellborn said:
bigcypresshunter said:

I believe it may be illegal to find anything over 50 years old on the beach (state property) in Florida below the high tide line. My question is if a 1955 quarter or penny shows up in your scoop, what are we supposed to do? Throw it back down in the hole and bury it?

What about finds above the high tide (water) line?

Click to expand...

Exactly! (about the 1955 coin)

I have no idea about the above high tide line - don't detectorists actually go IN the water? What about what they find?! Throw it back?

sheesh
Nan

Without special permit from the state, I believe it is illegal to take artifacts, bottles, any boat part underwater, coins or jewelry that are over 50 years old. It is no longer legal to report and keep isolated finds.

"artifacts from state lands are state property."excerpt from isolated finds law
Is the beach considered state lands?

Bigcypresshunter · Dec 11, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Here is what I found on Floridas Isolated Finds Law. It does not say anything about the beach or ocean. I did however find this statement-- "analysis of the IFP database examined Isolated Finds reports from May 1996 ... Artifacts have been reported from 27 rivers/creeks, 3 lakes, one beach, and one sinkhole."

[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]Isolated Finds:[/size][/size][/size]The Isolated Finds Program (IFP) allowed divers to legally collect artifacts (e.g., arrowheads, pottery sherds) from some Florida rivers by reporting information on their finds to the Division of Historical Resources.

§ 267.115(9), Florida Statutes states that "the division may implement a program to administer finds of isolated historic artifacts from state-owned river bottoms whereby the division may transfer ownership of such artifacts to the finder in exchange for information about the artifacts and the circumstances and location of their discovery."

Artifacts were not to be collected from known archaeological sites or from rivers within managed areas like parks, preserves and forests.

The IFP began in 1996 as a cooperative effort between the Division and river divers who were concerned that their long standing hobby was jeopardized by increased criminal penalties for removing artifacts from State of Florida owned lands.

The Division attempted to inform river divers about the IFP with flyers, public presentations, meetings with river divers, and a web page.

In November 2003 the Florida Historical Commission recommended that the Division discontinue the IFP and explore alternative programs. This decision was based on low participation and problems with enforcement of the IFP.

The Division held public meetings in April and June 2004 to receive input on the IFP and possible alternative programs. Letters requesting input were sent to IFP participants, avocational and professional archaeological societies, American Indian tribes, land managing and law enforcement agencies.

The Historical Commission discussed this issue and received public comment at its meetings in Delray Beach (May 15, 2004) and Tallahassee (November 15, 2004 and April 7, 2005).

The Division's review of the IFP was presented to the Historical Commission in May 2005. The Commission unanimously recommended that the Division discontinue the IFP without a replacement program.

The Division accepted the recommendation of the Historical Commission and notified IFP participants and other interested parties that the IFP was discontinued as of June 1, 2005. Participants were encouraged to continue their interests in Florida archaeology by working with scholars and archaeological societies.

Between June 1996 and June 2005 the Division received 1,115 IFP reports from 150 individuals. Seven individuals submitted 54 % of the IFP reports received.

10,720 artifacts were collected under the IFP program from 51 rivers and lakes. In two cases divers reported locating significant sites and donated their finds to the Division; in all other cases the artifacts were kept by the finders.

Geographic analysis indicates that 10 % of the IFP reports represent artifacts removed from known archaeological sites.

In the absence of the IFP removal of artifacts from river bottoms and other sovereign submerged lands is a first degree misdemeanor under § 267.13(1)(a), Florida Statutes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This document is available as a Microsoft Word Document download.

Ramapirate · Dec 11, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

I had a buddy that lived in Salisbury, N.C. that had a great arrowhead and artifact collection in a building in his back yard. He also had a bunch of mounds around his home that he never touched. He said the gov't had been to his house umteen times and if they'd found anything the least bit wrong (burial beads, ceremonially broken pipes, etc)which they never did, they'd confiscate his entire collection and put him in prison. We have some stupid laws in this country. They took all the Native Americans land, gave them smallpox infected blankets to kill them off. but yet the gov't is WAY too darn interested in any artifacts you find on public property, and a lot of private property.

I am so sorry about this mans situation, this is a abomination. We need to get the laws changed. I don't believe in the wholesale destruction of known historical sites, but there is such a thing as going overboard.

Happy and safe hunting to all,
Ramapirate

eathabs · Dec 12, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Wow, the state of Florida can kiss my ass!!! I will never vacation there again unless they change the BS laws that govern their citizens and visitors. Seems that they got caught up in the Mel Fisher hoopla and wanted a slice of that pie.

Jeffro · Dec 12, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Chuck, I'm confused... was it Matt, Dave Ross, or this fella named "Smokey" who was arrested? Or was this just posted on Matt's board?

diggummup · Dec 12, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

The Miner said:
Maybe, just maybe if everyone wrote letters to your Congressman, Senaters, your State officials and your local officials. Maybe something can be done.

Good read at Gold Dredgers . Com Political/Very Important Read.

Key word in that statement-"EVERYONE".I do my part

Farmercal · Dec 12, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

I live in the state of Florida and I can tell you first hand that it is their intention to charge as many citizens with crimes as possible so they can plea bargain them into a supervised probation program for 18 months. Then the state of Florida gets about $100.00 per person per month for each person on probation (which pays for their probation

). You see Florida doesn't have a state tax so they have to raise revenues in other ways, which explains why gas is more expensive in Florida. I could tell you some stories that happened to people right here in my town you wouldn't believe.

diggummup · Dec 12, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Farmercal said:
I live in the state of Florida and I can tell you first hand that it is their intention to charge as many citizens with crimes as possible so they can plea bargain them into a supervised probation program for 18 months. Then the state of Florida gets about $100.00 per person per month for each person on probation (which pays for their probation ). You see Florida doesn't have a state tax so they have to raise revenues in other ways, which explains why gas is more expensive in Florida. I could tell you some stories that happened to people right here in my town you wouldn't believe.

Did you know that 85% of people put on probation in this state violate at least once?
That's why they go for the probation thing,because even it, in the long run will cost you more,money is the priority for these swine! Anyway,sorry to get off the subject of this post.

Oroblanco · Dec 13, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Wow, the state of Florida can kiss my ass!!! I will never vacation there again unless they change the BS laws that govern their citizens and visitors

DITTO!

West Jersey Detecting · Dec 14, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

I was recently warned about taking artifacts from a site that was being cleared to build a shopping mall!

Another time I was metal detecting at a site of foundations that had been turned into a BMX bike track. The kids told me they found old "glass" smoking pipes & bottles, which they said they had fun smashing.
One of the parents told me that I shouldn't be removing stuff.

Peg Leg · Dec 15, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

As some of you know I am involved with a wreck that I have located in the Gulf of Mexico.
I approched this wreck as legally as I could. I asked for a permit to search and estiblish what type ship it was I WAS REFUSED A PERMIT because I was not incorporated in the State of Florida.
Florida are based on a 1987 court ruling BUT in 2000 this Law was overturned.
I am now in the process of signing an AGREEMENT with the Kingdom of Spain FOR THEIR PERMISSION TO RECOVER THIS WRECK.
A also expect to be arrested and put into jail but what the hell. I am 70 years old, a diebetic and and amputee WHAT ELSE CAN THEY DO TO ME.
Peg Leg

Bigcypresshunter · Dec 15, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Peg Leg said:
A also expect to be arrested and put into jail but what the hell. I am 70 years old, a diebetic and and amputee WHAT ELSE CAN THEY DO TO ME.
Peg Leg

You could die on a half inch thick vinyl covered foam pad in an uncomfortable steel cage surrounded by thugs and jitterbugs.

Peg Leg · Dec 15, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

OR
I could become a much hated man by having the LAWS changed with Spain becoming the one who gives permission to recover THEIR wrecks and NOT the State of Florida. Spain would then make the money and not the State. I have been told that the DEP would really get involved-how much more can the DEP get involved than they already are?
I would not mind giving Spain 50% and the State of Florida 0.
We will no doubt know in time anyway.
Peg Leg
The odds of dieing in jail are not as high as being hit by a Drunk Driver or by being blow up by a Terrorist bomb at a McDonalds or a WAL MART ETC.

SomeGuy · Dec 15, 2006

Re: "FIGHT FOR FL ARTIFACTS CASE -- DAVE ROSS"

Peg Leg said:
The odds of dieing in jail are not as high as being hit by a Drunk Driver or by being blow up by a Terrorist bomb at a McDonalds or a WAL MART ETC.

Death is unavoidable; happens to all of us eventually, but LIVING in jail really, really, sucks.