Fired Enfield Bullet in a Piece of Wood!!!

[romeo-1]

Got out today with a bud to dig some old lead...and there was no shortage of that! Bullets (Enfields, Sniders, three ringers, four ringers) would be mid 1800s I would think. Also managed three silvers, two coppers (1900 Canada LC and an 1896 British Half Penny) and a gold plated cufflink.

The find of the day for me was the fired Enfield in the wood. A fired ball that hit a tree and embedded with the tree growing around it. First for me!

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: Enfield Bullet in a Piece of Wood!!!

Great finds there! I have dug lots of Civil War 3-ringers, but never seen a 4-ringer. I can see one in your photo...what type of bullet is that?


That's a great variety of finds. Excellent hunt.



Regards,



Buckles

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Enfield Bullet in a Piece of Wood!!!

Great finds there! I have dug lots of Civil War 3-ringers, but never seen a 4-ringer. I can see one in your photo...what type of bullet is that?


That's a great variety of finds. Excellent hunt.



Regards,



Buckles

I found 100ish 4 ringers from the old range. They are the same cal as the 3, I believe they were interchangeable. I have also heard they were used in the Snider as well as Enfield.

 

[romeo-1]

Re: Enfield Bullet in a Piece of Wood!!!

Great finds there! I have dug lots of Civil War 3-ringers, but never seen a 4-ringer. I can see one in your photo...what type of bullet is that?


That's a great variety of finds. Excellent hunt.



Regards,



Buckles

I found 100ish 4 ringers from the old range. They are the same cal as the 3, I believe they were interchangeable. I have also heard they were used in the Snider as well as Enfield.

Yep...Snider and Enfield bullets.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Enfield Bullet in a Piece of Wood!!!

Great finds there! I have dug lots of Civil War 3-ringers, but never seen a 4-ringer. I can see one in your photo...what type of bullet is that?


That's a great variety of finds. Excellent hunt.



Regards,



Buckles

I found 100ish 4 ringers from the old range. They are the same cal as the 3, I believe they were interchangeable. I have also heard they were used in the Snider as well as Enfield.

We have found quite a few over the years too. Did you dig any that are holed at the top, but appear to be made that way, not from being pulled? I have examples of both.

 

[romeo-1]

Re: Enfield Bullet in a Piece of Wood!!!

Great finds there! I have dug lots of Civil War 3-ringers, but never seen a 4-ringer. I can see one in your photo...what type of bullet is that?


That's a great variety of finds. Excellent hunt.



Regards,



Buckles

I found 100ish 4 ringers from the old range. They are the same cal as the 3, I believe they were interchangeable. I have also heard they were used in the Snider as well as Enfield.

Yep...Snider and Enfield bullets.

Many of mine are holed at the top and just as many have a wooden plug in that top hole...

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Enfield Bullet in a Piece of Wood!!!

Great finds there! I have dug lots of Civil War 3-ringers, but never seen a 4-ringer. I can see one in your photo...what type of bullet is that?


That's a great variety of finds. Excellent hunt.



Regards,



Buckles

I found 100ish 4 ringers from the old range. They are the same cal as the 3, I believe they were interchangeable. I have also heard they were used in the Snider as well as Enfield.

Yep...Snider and Enfield bullets.

Many of mine are holed at the top and just as many have a wooden plug in that top hole...

I have never heard a solid positive ID for these... but I do know where to find out!

If you want to know post a pic on ARH ; Attn: Tom Stelma

 

[romeo-1]

IP...here's one of the 4 ringers I dug today...you can see that the wooden plug is still in the hole...

 

[Iron Patch]

IP...here's one of the 4 ringers I dug today...you can see that the wooden plug is still in the hole...

Is the wooden plug intact at the base for that one, or has it been pulled leaving wood at the top? My opening is much larger.

 

[romeo-1]

IP...here's one of the 4 ringers I dug today...you can see that the wooden plug is still in the hole...

Is the wooden plug intact at the base for that one, or has it been pulled leaving wood at the top? My opening is much larger.

Yep, wooden plug in the base as well...

 

[Tank69]

wtg very cool finds

 

[Iron Patch]

IP...here's one of the 4 ringers I dug today...you can see that the wooden plug is still in the hole...

Is the wooden plug intact at the base for that one, or has it been pulled leaving wood at the top? My opening is much larger.

Yep, wooden plug in the base as well...

I'm thinking maybe mine with the large opening was pulled but always thought it would be a small hole. Can't figure out the significance of the wood on top.

 

[allen]

and i was happy just finding a single 3 ringer !!
good job on all of those wonderful finds !

 

[spartacus53]

Great assortment of finds and I especially love the embedded bullet.

 

[cntrydncr1]

great hunt! nice cufflink

 

[CRUSADER]

IP...here's one of the 4 ringers I dug today...you can see that the wooden plug is still in the hole...

Is the wooden plug intact at the base for that one, or has it been pulled leaving wood at the top? My opening is much larger.

Yep, wooden plug in the base as well...

I'm thinking maybe mine with the large opening was pulled but always thought it would be a small hole. Can't figure out the significance of the wood on top.

What I find interesting is all of mine are red clay base inserts. Never found a wood one, but you guys often do.
All mine are fired. So in many differing states. I have a few good state ones with nothing in the point, & many with holes. Never found one with the plug in the pointy hole, this I never knew. I assumed they blow out through a weakness
However, now I know some were front plugged, I wonder if they were trying to make a weakness which would cause more damage on impact. All guess work, as I have little knowledge in firearms. I will PM you both a US expert on these bullets, he helped me out, just send a picture.
Please update post afterwards?

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Nice finds!

 

[romeo-1]

IP...here's one of the 4 ringers I dug today...you can see that the wooden plug is still in the hole...

Is the wooden plug intact at the base for that one, or has it been pulled leaving wood at the top? My opening is much larger.

Yep, wooden plug in the base as well...

I'm thinking maybe mine with the large opening was pulled but always thought it would be a small hole. Can't figure out the significance of the wood on top.

What I find interesting is all of mine are red clay base inserts. Never found a wood one, but you guys often do.
All mine are fired. So in many differing states. I have a few good state ones with nothing in the point, & many with holes. Never found one with the plug in the pointy hole, this I never knew. I assumed they blow out through a weakness
However, now I know some were front plugged, I wonder if they were trying to make a weakness which would cause more damage on impact. All guess work, as I have little knowledge in firearms. I will PM you both a US expert on these bullets, he helped me out, just send a picture.
Please update post afterwards?

Thanks Cru...I got your PM and will give him a shout!

 

[CRUSADER]

IP...here's one of the 4 ringers I dug today...you can see that the wooden plug is still in the hole...

Is the wooden plug intact at the base for that one, or has it been pulled leaving wood at the top? My opening is much larger.

Yep, wooden plug in the base as well...

I'm thinking maybe mine with the large opening was pulled but always thought it would be a small hole. Can't figure out the significance of the wood on top.

What I find interesting is all of mine are red clay base inserts. Never found a wood one, but you guys often do.
All mine are fired. So in many differing states. I have a few good state ones with nothing in the point, & many with holes. Never found one with the plug in the pointy hole, this I never knew. I assumed they blow out through a weakness
However, now I know some were front plugged, I wonder if they were trying to make a weakness which would cause more damage on impact. All guess work, as I have little knowledge in firearms. I will PM you both a US expert on these bullets, he helped me out, just send a picture.
Please update post afterwards?

Thanks Cru...I got your PM and will give him a shout!

This is his reply to me:
Metford, Halford, and I believe Russell, all mentioned the hollow nosed bullets in their writings. The hollow point bullets were actually in use before the Snider. Here is an excerpt from a Guns magazine article that is on-line, but has no photos:

Quoting from the 1887 Treatise on Ammunition, "The bullet is made from pure lead, weight 480 grains, the hollow in the head is closed by having the lead spun over it, the hollow parts being necessary in order to get the bullet of sufficient length for good shooting, without unduly increasing its weight, and to get its center of gravity in the proper place, the hollow in the base is also used to give the expansive action to the bullets. The plug, made of clay, and soaked in beeswax, closes the rear cavity, and on firing expands the bullet." Sounds exactly like a P-1853 Enfield Minie ball being loaded in a brass cartridge case! Essentially, it was.
A thoughtful reader in Canada once sent me several spent Snider bullets pictured here. They were recovered from Lake Ontario where it was the general practice for Snider-equipped Canadian troops to shoot at floating targets. This is an earlier form of the Snider bullet that features a wooden plug in the nose cavity. The clay plugs in the hollow skirts are clearly visible. Note the considerable nose expansion of the one bullet that appears to have hit its mark.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_52/ai_n26738487/?tag=content;col1

Here are some comments from Brannen Sanders on the N-SSA site:

According to the records of British Ordnance (and I don't recall the exact figures as reported in Rhodes book when tested against regular "solid nose" Minie type bullets-the HP Metrord returned a "Figure of Merit" around .68 while the nearest solid nose bullet tried rated around a 2.35 "Figure of Merit" In other words, the HP Metford/Pritchett shot " a heck of a lot better" than its nearest rival from "off the bench"!!!

The ONLY reason that the Metford/Pritchett HP was not adopted as the standard Enfield round is because it lacked the penetration of a standard solid nose ball, i.e., the HP caused rapid expansion.

When the British got around to adopting the breechloading version of the Enfield, the Snider, they realized their mistake and adopted various versions of the .577 Snider bullet with a HP nose. In the first "Marks" the HP was filled with a wooden dowel and later versions used a "spun over" nose that actually closed the forward end of the HP cavity.

Yeah, I know that the "paper patch" was dropped in favor of cannelures in the Snider rounds, but NOT because of any deficiency of the paper patch. As the Snider round used the bullet crimped firmly in the cartridge case, (after all this was "combat ammo") breechloading paper patch rounds must have a more or less "loose fitting" crimp or the patch will be torn off on firing the arm.
http://www.n-ssa.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=44016&sid=3dc7ec58269b9c150bca51f68c4ec41c

 

[Iron Patch]

Well that explains why some are more open at the top, they were blown open.