First Shelter Dig...Any Advice?

Hutch in PA · Feb 21, 2012

Well guys, I'm finally taking the plunge and expanding from 'field walking' to digging. I spent Sunday walking the hillside of a local river, and located what I think is a good location. After some research and door knocking, I located the owner and gained permission. But it has some challenges (more on that in a minute).

The spot is about one mile up river from one of my most productive farms, and about five miles below a well-documented woodland site. Based on its location, the size of the shelters, and their southern exposure, I am certain they had to be occupied over the years.

There are three rock ledges within 100 yards of each other, and each is located about 100 yards from the river. I decided to start with the 'most obvious' of the shelters (the biggest and deepest). It is about ten feet tall at the entrance and five feet tall at the back wall. The length is about twenty feet. The other two are about half that size.

I rigged my sifter to a tree at the top of the shelter and started raking out the leaves. It became immediately obvious that this has been a party spot for campers via canoe. I cleaned out hundreds of broken beer bottles (pigs). The style of the bottles shows that people have been in there for many years.

Once that was done, I started to dig. I focused on an area just inside the drip line. My first sift produced one piece of flint. Four hours later, I was 3.5' down...found no more flint...and was STILL pulling up recent garbage (including a 1967 penny). Ugh.

I have to assume that I'm digging through the refuse of the last person to sift the site....would you agree? Inside the shelter, there is a pit about four feet wide and a foot deep...I was 'hoping' that pit was just a place modern campers/partiers built their fires. Now I am starting to question whether investing the time to continue will only result in digging through what has already been dug.

On the bright side, I started in the MOST OBVIOUS place. Anybody who was going to dig the site would dig right where I dug. And, I could see no evidence of digging at the other shelters.

I've read a lot of comments on here about how productive the spots outside the shelter can be...but here, there is a deep drop/bank right outside.

Any thoughts or comments are welcome. Am I wasting my time? What would you do?

tmodel · Feb 23, 2012

Hutch!! get a probe like the bottle diggers use to find prives. it has a kind of rounded tip, not sharpoint, it is a little larger then the shaft so shaft will not bind in the hole, if you do not know how to use one, you can learn in your yard. start pushing it into the ground when you hit hardpan aka the dirt that has not been dug up.you may even have to use both hands instead of one to go deeper, then start moving thourd the watter line ditch moving less then how wide the ditch is each time, you will know when you hit ditch. that is the way it will feel in the shelter, hopefully it will be like the yard. if you knew how to use one this is aiso for anyone that did not know. Terry

Bagman13 · Feb 24, 2012

Keep in mind that just because an area looks like it's been hit hard doesn't mean that a polished 9" hardstone celt isn't 4" under the surface wedged between a boulder and a tree root

I witnessed this a few weekends ago with one of my buddies. Blew me away and taught me a valuable lesson.

You never know what lies only a scrape or two below your last one :icon_thumright:

Good luck this weekend.....

flintmel · Feb 24, 2012

Good advice, so true Bagman, you never know! Good Luck Hutch!

Tnmountains · Feb 25, 2012

Like t-model said a probe will tell you what has been dug and the soil will be really clean and fluffy if it was sifted or dug years ago. Russell cave here was dug down to 10.5' of habitation and that was not debri blowing in either. Weird how you have have two similar shelters in an area and only one will produce. Sometimes the area under where they sifted may not be dug. If you got a lot of roots you are in the right spot! I think they looked at the ceilings and if it had a lot of fracture cracks they would not use the shelter cause the heat from the fire in fall could pop off sections of rock down on them. I say that cause we ran into a guy that had been crushed from a ceiling collapse while digging under a large piece of the ceiling on the floor. My guess is the paid a lot of attention to what the ceiling looked like before they would use them. Charcoal is always a good indicator. Test holes will tell you real quick if it is present.
With the river being so close I would be hunting that creek bed out and down to the river. I imagine the shelter would have shell and river snails present being that close. I love shelter hunting. Some are just gathering spots for nuts others near a river could have seen yearly use. I have one near an island up high. It is full of shell. I work it when I have time and have to use ropes to get in and out. @ 5' at the entrance I still get shell. But because of vegetation I had to dig over a foot to just hit anything. It seems to just be Mississippian thus far and nothing with any age on it. Dalton is the earliest I have ever found in a shelter.
Good luck on your shelter and hope that you find some cool things. Rarely is anything ever cleaned out.
Enjoyed all the knowledgeable replies. I learn every time I stop by : ) :thumbsup:

tmodel · Feb 25, 2012

good go Tn!! i belive you could be very right. but i had not thought about fire and the over head cracks before. Terry

SOHIO · Feb 27, 2012

My advice would be to check your state laws before digging into shelter, not sure about pa, but in most states it is illegal even on private land to disturb a shelter. :BangHead:

1320 · Feb 29, 2012

SOHIO said:
My advice would be to check your state laws before digging into shelter, not sure about pa, but in most states it is illegal even on private land to disturb a shelter.

You were pretty sure about Kentucky but you got that one wrong.......

buzzgator · Feb 29, 2012

Pretty sure MOST places shelters r fine to dig on private property, its mounds/graves you CANT dig due to NAGPRA laws even on private property.

SOHIO · Feb 29, 2012

http://www.jstor.org/pss/40914484
http://www.missouristate.edu/car/2652.htm
http://www.preservationkentucky.org/pages.php?id=15

Not trying to be indifferent here, the guy asked for advice I gave mine. Look into it yourselves and you will find that while digging on private land is in most states legal with permission that doesn't extend to rockshelters. And if it is legal in your state it shouldn't be, and there are probably agencies that try to make it illegal. I mean we all know that it is destroying arch evidence. Why dig up stratified layers, possibly undisturbed, that reveal timelines and vlaluable arch info. Not to mention that there could be burial sites. That is a major reason not to bother these sites. Leave them for future archaeologists. I know it's temping to enter into one to possibly add great stuff to "the frames" and feel like your building an investment for you or your future generations, but taking away from the investments of your state, and country is quite immoral. Most hunters are greedy though and can't comprehend proper preservation because they haven't had proper education. As for being wrong about KY. I'm not saying I'm positive, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal to dig a shelter and I know it is here in ohio I seen the info on a website back when, but I can't recall where and couldn't find it just now. But there are a few links above that can show you it's worth being sure before you dig one and post it on the web. :hello:

buzzgator · Feb 29, 2012

Re read the missouri link u posted, illegal on federal and state land, not illegal on private property. As for archies preserving! That debate goes on daily on a dozen other threads. As for burials in rock shelters, very few n far between. Archies arent interested in shelters all they r interested in is aproving the destruction of sites for roads n state funded building projects. Whens the last time u heard of a project being canceled or re routed because of archeological significants of a site? I do not condone digging mounds, but a rock shelter where the only archeological value is in the lithics, puuulllease give me a break!

flintmel · Feb 29, 2012

Have to agree with Buzzgator, I have seen countless sites destroyed by progress with the 'professionals' approval.
There is a document filed noting a survey and then the dozers come thru. There now are hired survey teams to speed up the survey so construction/destruction can begin...

buzzgator · Feb 29, 2012

Prime example just outside of Cape girardeau, mo. The new hi-water terminal on the Miss riva, area was loaded with artifact all dozed over n filled in. I guarantee a archie had to sign off on it as being insignificant! Several areas there looked to be mounds.

1320 · Feb 29, 2012

SOHIO said:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/40914484
http://www.missouristate.edu/car/2652.htm
http://www.preservationkentucky.org/pages.php?id=15

Not trying to be indifferent here, the guy asked for advice I gave mine. Look into it yourselves and you will find that while digging on private land is in most states legal with permission that doesn't extend to rockshelters. And if it is legal in your state it shouldn't be, and there are probably agencies that try to make it illegal. I mean we all know that it is destroying arch evidence. Why dig up stratified layers, possibly undisturbed, that reveal timelines and vlaluable arch info. Not to mention that there could be burial sites. That is a major reason not to bother these sites. Leave them for future archaeologists. I know it's temping to enter into one to possibly add great stuff to "the frames" and feel like your building an investment for you or your future generations, but taking away from the investments of your state, and country is quite immoral. Most hunters are greedy though and can't comprehend proper preservation because they haven't had proper education. As for being wrong about KY. I'm not saying I'm positive, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal to dig a shelter and I know it is here in ohio I seen the info on a website back when, but I can't recall where and couldn't find it just now. But there are a few links above that can show you it's worth being sure before you dig one and post it on the web.

The OP didn't request a legal review but posters like you feel like you gotta throw your one cent in. You have hit me and many others with the "illegal" aspect of digging. You have posted several Kentucky links in this regard and NOT ONE OF THEM says ANYTHING about private property digging. Please read what you post for crying out loud. It's people like you that get into the heads of the folks who don't give a damn either way but if they see or hear of you digging they cry foul and jump up and down screaming "It's illegal to dig rock shelters...blah blah blah. If you would read the link that you posted to this thread (Kentucky) it only mentions rock shelters in the Red River Gorge and on National Forest lands....what in the world makes you think that it's illegal in the entire State of Kentucky?! For the last time, digging for artifacts on private land in rock shelters in Kentucky is LEGAL! Yes, a hoop or two to jump through but legal. One can even obtain a permit to metal detect and dig on National Forest lands either thru the National Forest Service or the Corps of Engineers in Kentucky. Yes, an approval process is involved but legal.

I am of the opinion that your posts to guys like me and Hutch has more to do with your disapproval of digging than your concern of us getting in trouble with the law. If the experts want to learn more about Native American life in my region then they should get off the lazy behinds, crap out the funds and get up here and dig some of these shelters. Want to know why they aren't up here in my region digging? Because they've ALL been disturbed! I'd give you a $1,000 to locate one that hasn't been touched and I'll give you as much time as you need. And one more question, how many more shelters do the experts need to dig before they finally figure out the questions that you propose?! If you look at the conclusions of the shelters digs from the 1920's to the 1990's, the results are the same. Ain't nothing new coming out of these rock houses my friend.

buzzgator · Feb 29, 2012

Exactly what 1320 said!

1320 · Feb 29, 2012

Buzz, I read the Missouri link, you are correct. I still had to laugh about the part that says "it's unethical"...LOL Certainly that can be debated but nowhere does it say illegal except on Government owned properties.

And for what it's worth, the State of Kentucky can't agree on the definition of rock shelter. Not long ago, the State tried to prosecute two guys that were caught digging in a "rock shelter" on Federal land. The Judge asked the Prosecutor what made the rock shelter a shelter and he replied, (something to the effect) "Native Americans lived in the shelters". The Judge asked for proof of habitation...there was none. The two gentleman had no artifacts on their person or in the immediate vicinity or in their vehicle. They were only found guilty of digging on Government land, not digging for artifacts or burials. The Prosecution couldn't even prove intent as he thought he had a slam dunk case and hadn't prepared for it. Just because it's a hole in a cliff face doesn't necessarily mean it's a rock shelter, at least in Kentucky. The experts would make you think that every nook and cranny was occupied at one time or another.....

SOHIO · Feb 29, 2012

I have seen many undisturbed shelters, and yeah I was seriously just trying to give a heads up I'm sure I read about ohio being illegal to dig shelters. Never claimed to be positive about it and meant to invite someone with more time to look it up. Those links I posted were from just a quik google search and thought they proved only that some see the digging of shelters as a problem. You People can dig all the shelters you want, no skin off my back. My personal preference for my own collection has relics in it that I found with a clear conscience.

buzzgator · Feb 29, 2012

I sleep great at night! Ur link for Mo is edu, meaning a university, not gov as in pertaining to laws. Of course the archie that wrote the article is against digging a shelter, just like most archies are against metal detecting. Keep propogating untruths and soon YOU wont be alowed to surface hunt in your own fields. Or metal detect ur favorite tot lot.

buzzgator · Feb 29, 2012

Oh and another thing how do you know these many undisturbed shelters you have seen are undisturbed? I know from my experience alot of times you cant tell disturbed from undisturbed until you start digging. I have yet to find one that hasnt been at the least dug thru some at one time or another. Hell my last shelter looked pristine yet i found 22bullets and a wheat penny at 8inchs!