Fully Permitted Mine

[Clay Diggins]

On this forum, and others, I read endless stories of how mining is being shut down in the United States. Tales of mines projects being protested and lawsuits against mining seem to be popular.

I work full time in the mining industry and my experiences just don't jibe with these stories. Every year the greenies lose more cases than they win. The courts continue to rule that mining can proceed despite the protests and lawsuits.

There is some opposition in some particular areas to mining. In many other regions mining is welcomed as a revenue and job source to help struggling communities. I'm going to profile two mining projects in this post that I am very familiar with. I hope these profiles will help demonstrate how the United States remains the third largest mining nation on earth.

__________________________________________
Case #1

Probably one of the communities most opposed to any form of mining is Tucson, Arizona. This small city has become the chosen retirement destination for the bike riding, sandal wearing laid back liberals from the Northeast. It's about as anti-mining as a community can get. Any hint that a hole might be dug in Mother Earth somewhere brings out the opposing petitions, and checkbooks, of these wealthy retirees. It's not a coincidence that the money grubbing group of lawyers posing as the 11 million dollar per year Center for Biological Diversity has established their offices in Tucson. It's big money territory for lawyers counting on greenie contributions and fee payouts from the Federal government.

So what do you think happened when Rosemont, one of the biggest open pit mines ever proposed, was planned just 26 miles as the crow flies from Tucson? Yep - protests, campaigns, rallies, "news" articles and many many lawsuits. Rosemont will be mining 100,000 tons of copper per year. How long did it take to get the mine permitted? 5 years. A record short time for a mine of this size anywhere in the US!

__________________________________________
Case #2

Nevada is the biggest mining state. It's generally considered one of the most friendly states for mining and it produces about 79% of all gold mined in the US.

Midway Gold has a 4,000 acre low grade disseminated surface gold deposit in Nevada. They plan to open pit mine 875,000 ounces of gold over the next nine years.

The proposed mine and processing site has protected nesting Bald Eagles and Sage Grouse. You would think Midway Gold are gonna have problems getting approval for a huge open pit and cyanide leach pads there - right? Wrong. The entire mine and leach operation was permitted in 19 months. Even less time than the two years the company was planning.

Read how Midway Gold did it.
__________________________________________

I'm sure you can find horror stories about mine permitting. Bad news sells better than good news. Badly managed projects rarely get approval. Poorly planned operations are commonly hung up in the permitting process. It's you choice whether you learn from past mistakes. You choose whether to build on success or give up before trying.

Mining is alive and well in the United States and serious miners are finding the process of getting permitted easier each year. The tide has turned in the miner's favor and I would hope the small miners here can find it within themselves to let the past problems go and take advantage of the opportunity.

The markets and the people in this country are fed up with the greenies running things. The greenie rangers and land administrators have had their heads handed to them by the courts too many times. They are retiring in droves these days and the time to mine is upon us. We've got them on the run. Higher gold prices and easing of agency obstruction combined with a large number of small paying deposits spell a bright future for the small gold miners.

It's up to us to take advantage of this new mining environment. We can sit around and grouch about how difficult it is for us to even prospect anymore or we can seize the opportunity and create a whole new class of successful small miners. The choice is yours. I hope you choose mining.

 

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[Clay Diggins]

Barry you must be speaking of this BIG kitty.

Yeah that's the current one AzViper.

The original "one and only" Jaguar in the United States was Macho B.

The story of how the Game and Fish department harassed and eventually trapped and killed Macho B and the multiple court cases that followed will tell you a lot about how effective the current state of "wildlife management" is.

It really makes me wonder just how this new "one and only" Jaguar in the United States happened to end up wandering around a mine site. It's a long walk for a cat from Mexico. Think maybe the kitty had some help from some environmental do-gooders?

 

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[Oakview2]

There are some wins out there against CBD . The most hillarious and sad quote,

"In the appeals process, Amicus briefs were filed by environmental corporations that advocated for the Center for Biological Diversity’s right to lie, defame, misrepresent and practice a reckless disregard for the truth as long as their intentions were to advance their “environmental” agenda. Big names that chimed in with Amicus briefs to OK the Center’s defamatory actions were The Sierra Club, Forest Guardians, Arizona Wildlife Federation and the Maricopa Audubon Society."







Chilton Ranch Lawsuit

 

[AzViper]

Yeah that's the current one AzViper.

The original "one and only" Jaguar in the United States was Macho B.

The story of how the Game and Fish department harassed and eventually trapped and killed Macho B and the multiple court cases that followed will tell you a lot about how effective the current state of "wildlife management" is.

It really makes me wonder just how this new "one and only" Jaguar in the United States happened to end up wandering around a mine site. It's a long walk for a cat from Mexico. Think maybe the kitty had some help from some environmental do-gooders?

Yeah its amazing for one animal and that's if the Jag even exist the state designates 764,207 acres in these mountain ranges, Baboquivari, Pajarito, Atascosa, Tumacacori, Patagonia, Santa Rita, Huachuca, Peloncillo Mountains.

Kinda like the 31 bighorn sheep released in the Catalina's and 13 have been found dead in a period from their release date of 11/18/2013. Most if not all have died from mountain lions. Bighorns are high stress animals and with the entire area of their release of homes, hikers, hikers with dogs, these sheep do not have a fighting chance of survival. I have to wonder if Arizona Game & Fish has a clue as to what they are doing. Thirty years ago this mountain range supported 150 bighorn but not now as humans have encroached the three sides of this mountain range with their million dollar homes. The mountain lions are not leaving the area as they feed on the domestic animals that these millionaires bring to the desert.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Clay, thanks for this thread. Sure is nice to see the facts laid out and the grumpy old doomsayers silenced for once. Let's all get out there and do some mining so the greenies can have the metal they need to live their modern lives 'cause they sure ain't gonna do it!

 

[kazcoro]

Kinda like the 31 bighorn sheep released in the Catalina's and 13 have been found dead in a period from their release date of 11/18/2013. Most if not all have died from mountain lions. Bighorns are high stress animals and with the entire area of their release of homes, hikers, hikers with dogs, these sheep do not have a fighting chance of survival.

One of the reasons bighorns are doing so poorly is that they are now forced into their retreat range. Historically, they roamed the deserts, and only used the mountains and cliffs to retreat to. Now, they are forced to live there. I know that lions do live in the desert, but I have to think that the bighorns would do a helluva lot better if they were allowed to live in the desert.

 

[fowledup]

It's so good, I hear Sierra Pacific Industries and the forest circus has decided to tear down all the yellow gates and give us back access to a few million acres. We are also expecting a letter from BLM any day now informing my partner and I that the claims his grandfather had and the ones my family had on the next watershed over are once again open to mineral entry. In fact it's so good for us miners here in the golden state, I bet they reimburse Brandon and his family for their legal troubles and give them a public apology for all the grief they've caused him. Yep nuttin but rainbows and unicorns!

"Grumpy old doomsayers silenced" -NEVER! There are a handful of us "Grumpy old doomsayers" fighting for your rights that take big time offense to that statement. We spend our "spare" time and our own money (we don't get grants or paid a salary like Izzy) - we write letters to politicians and organizations, we fundraise for legal defenses, we commit countless hours researching and monitoring the issues, we travel to the capital, we spend time away from our families attending hearings and meetings, we spend hours calling miners and property owners across the western United States fighting for what's left of our "right" to mine.

News flash- unless your a hands and pans weekend guy playing in the local BLM rec area - it ain't all good!

I'm done, it's time I quit drawing attention to myself and start taking advantage of this miner friendly climate we have here in CA.

 

[YumaMarc]

Just to think I live in Tucson, Arizona and yes its a city of 1 million and yes lots of snowbirds and retires. Barry I was surprised you did not mention Gold Strike Mine in Elko Nevada. If I am not mistaken it's the third largest gold mine on earth. Having recovered like 40,000,000,000.00 (BILLION) in gold in 18 years.

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An interesting story about Goldstrike. It was originally owned by Cyprus Gold, which did some very bad exploration and determined it was basically worthless and they wanted to dump it onto any sucker they could find. Barrick owned the Northumberland mine in eastern Naveda, which Cyrus negotiated to buy/trade for the Goldstrike. Well, after the trade went through Cyprus discovered the Northumberland ore was bound up in barite and was very difficult to recover. I did some assay work for Cyprus Northumberland. The gold was there, but not in the amount nor the ease of recovery they had hoped. Meanwhile Barrick did a lot of exploration on the Goldstrike and discovered the largest gold deposit on the Carlin Trend, mostly in an easily recoverable oxide. Karma, I suppose.....

 

[Clay Diggins]

I do understand the frustration expressed by members who mine in California. The press in California is extremely biased against mining and obviously affect public perception of mining in California. Reading the press there would lead one to believe that the entire State was once run by evil hearted men who did their best to kill all living things and that now by the grace of God all the evil mining is illegal under just and wise laws. BS

There is mining in California - a lot of mining. It is possible to get mines permitted there. There are many fully permitted mining operations. I didn't see anything in the links augoldminer posted to indicate that any mine has been refused permits for anything but cause.

Mark Fussell died while mining the 16 to 1. I don't think anyone denies that. The 16 to 1 management won their administrative appeal against the MSHA. The court said the Administrative Law Judge was wrong. I don't think anyone denies that. They did admit to two safety violations.

My ancestors mined the 16 to 1. Generations of miners mined the 16 to 1, some of them died doing so. Mining is dangerous work. I really don't understand how the 16 to 1 proves anything about permitting in California?

I'm still confused about the 16 to 1 situation. Is it a mine or an amusement park? Do they make money from the tourist operation or the mining? Have they even made any efforts to solve their processing plant problems? Do they even mine anymore?

I had some real hope for the 16 to 1 when I was part of the recovery operation back in the 1970's. I'm not sure the choice to turn it into a tourist attraction was the best decision for a mining operation. It was declared as a genius move by some at the time but to my mind it's about as practical as selling seats to a NASCAR race right on the track - bad stuff is bound to happen and cars will go slower. Not much good for racing or mining.

The vast majority of mines never get to the production phase. This has been true as long as mining has gone on in this country - long before permitting was even an issue. The reasons for that are many and complex but anyone with knowledge of the mining industry would agree that the two leading reasons for that common failure are over eager salesmen (pie in the sky promises) and bad planning and mismanagement of the actual mine process.

Despite the 16 to 1 advertising claims that they are the only permitted hardrock mine still operating in California there are other mines doing just that. The Ruby Mine is a recent example.
From the above link:

Ruby Gold, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of North Bay Resources Inc. (OTCQB: NBRI), is the owner and operator of the Ruby Mine (the "Ruby"), a fully-permitted underground placer and lode mine located near Downieville in Sierra County, California. The Ruby is known to have produced over 350,000 ounces of gold since the 1850s, and is considered to be part of the northern extension of the historic Mother Lode system. The Ruby property covers approximately 1,755 acres, only a small portion of which has been explored to date. The property consists of the subsurface mineral rights of two patented claims totaling approximately 435 acres and 30 unpatented claims containing approximately 1,320 acres. The equipment, fixed assets, and infrastructure in place include a 1,000 yard per day placer wash plant, 50-ton per day quartz mill, 6,000 feet of tracked haulage, and related support equipment needed for underground mining operations. The property also features an excellent system of roads, is accessible via paved highway from Reno or Sacramento, has abundant water and timber available for mining purposes, and has PG&E power available on-site.

Here are some facts about mining in California.

• The CA mining industry includes about 750 companies with combined annual revenue of $22.2 billion.
• The mining industry employs approximately 29,000 with an annual payroll of $1.8 billion.
• The industry contributes $19.7 billion to California's gross state product.
• Annual capital expenditures total $4.5 billion.

Hardly a dying industry is it?

Heavy Pans

 

[golden ray]

On large scale mine permitting. A lot depends on what district your operation is located in.
The BLM, EPA, MSA, all have a master plan of permitting & regulations required; BUT, not
all district offices follow the regulations to the 'tee'.
AND OF COURSE, it seems that they can be real specialist at 'finding' a new reg. at the last
minute. I have NEVER seen an inspection by BLM or EPA that went through to the end with out
them finding at least one ( usually ) multiple violations. And yes, I have seen money change hands;
though that is rare.

 

[Jonsered]

CBD has over 750 species to add to the ESA, it will take a lot more than citizens who know the law to keep them from shutting down the entire west under the guise of critical habitat.

This is what concerns me frankly.

 

[Notsuredomus]

I like the post clay Diggins. I really don't know a lot about the government mining claim procedures. However I think they make an effort to accommodate the big operations that they might not do for a recreational prospector. I know in the San Bernardino National Forest where I lived for over 15yrs that there was a lot of gold pulled out of Holcomb Valley and today it is off limits to prospecting of any kind. Yet hike to the ridge overlooking the valley and there are 3 big strip mines that they do allow to mine in the historic area. That being said I am sure that if you really knew the ins and outs of the process you might get you claim. But for a newbie trying to do all this for the first time without a 5000 dollar lawyer it can be a daunting task. Like trying to order something from a restaurants menu when you don't know how to read. lol I tell you what. If you write a post on the forum with the step by step instructions on how to find, stake and file for a surface or lode claim I would definitely like to read it. The Government makes everything so unnecessarily complicated like the easy form for taxes. They do it because they hope you wont file.

 

[Goldwasher]

Since when is Holcomb Valley closed to mining? I know people who dig there pretty regularly?

 

[augoldminer]

on the 16 to 1
"Have they even made any efforts to solve their processing plant problems? Do they even mine anymore?"

Yes they still mine with a small crew.

Yes they have looked at building a new processing plant IN Nevada.

one problem in calif is building mills and the waste from them.

The old Anaconda mine in Darwin calif has the same problem.
You can not plan and get permits in calif on any timetable. it might take 2 years or 20 years or never.
Project Darwin, LLC.
Nevada is a lot more mine or mill friendly
This means calif will lose most of the taxes on the recovered metals in the ores from the mine to Nevada.

 

[augoldminer]

Despite the 16 to 1 advertising claims that they are the only permitted hardrock mine still operating in California there are other mines doing just that. The Ruby Mine is a recent example.

The ruby mine is not primarily a hard rock mine, Its gold is in a old Tertiary river gravel channel and its classed as a underground placer mine.
true if they find a good hardrock vein they will mine it.

 

[Bejay]

While large mining operations are able to negotiate the Legal/Agency/State/Fed/Acts maze of red tape; and achieve their goal to mine, it is extremely obvious that the small scale miner is finding it extremely difficult. At every turn there is some regulatory obstacle confronting the small scale miner. More specifically we see the States intruding on the rights of miners to dredge the public lands (public domain) open to mineral entry. If it were not for the large scale mining entities and the need for mineral extraction in the United States we would undoubtedly have seen the General Mining Act of 1872 altereded dramatically.

With that said it sure would be nice to see the small scale mining community achieve some major wins in the courtrooms. States are passing laws that contend they (states) have the right to regulate mining methods. The USFS and the BLM are both bowing to the strict "greenie" agenda and fail to step up and fight on behalf of the miner. As it sits the small scale miner is left to fend for himself unless that miner can find a helping hand from some of the legal fund groups that take on such battles.

I find it extremely difficult to overcome State intrusions when simply the States pass laws banning mining activity and thus penalize/criminalize the small scale miner and monetarily fine the miner for violating state law. This places a lot of burden on the miner, and as such the miner has no other choice than to plead guilty to the State violation. Then of course the miner can simply say "so what if I did" and tell the state to take a hike....hoping to get into a higher federal court and allow the Mineral Estate Grant to be heard, along with all the supporting court cases that uphold the right of miners to mine.

Even if the miner is knowledgeable of mining law it takes a lot of skill to go before a court and properly present a case utilizing procedures and proper court tactics. The vast majority of small scale miners lack the skill to do so and they know it. I would recommend that miners take the time to learn as much as they can and at least learn how to "not shoot themselves in the foot" if they are challenged by an authority. Knowledge can be a useful tool helping the miner avoid grave errors. There is a lot of information available on the http://americanmininglawforum.myfastforum.org/index.php


bejay

 

[goldenIrishman]

Well said Bejay!!! An informed miner stands a much better chance against those that would keep us from our love.

I have taken the time to look up and print out many of the laws dealing with mining here in Arizona. Summaries of court cases, laws dealing with the limits of the forest service, etc etc etc. I keep everything in a portable file and it goes to the claim with us each and every time. While I've not yet had reason to bring it out to politely show a forest service employee just how wrong they are, I feel it's something that's good to have on hand. From past experience, if you can show those in positions of authority where they are mistaken (as well as show them the fact that you know the laws better than they do) they will usually back down. The trick is to remain calm, polite and not to get into a pi$$ing contest with them. The rangers in my area are pretty good guys and unless you're really messing up won't bother you.

BTW... Welcome to the forum. Any friend of Barrys'......

 

[goldenIrishman]

Duplicate post

 

[Bejay]

As a miner one must understand that in most cases the uniformed agency individual does not really have an understanding of the laws governing the act of mining. With such a portfolio the miner can easily offer up written documented evidence showing that the limitations placed on agencies such as the USFS or BLM are quite profound.

This can be done politely in a non-confrontational way. Personally I would do so by simply saying: " I believe you are in error" and I am conducting my activity in accordance with the correct application of laws/rules/regs/policies set forth in FLPMA and United States Code USC #. Knowing the rules/laws that govern the USFS and BLM gives the miner the ability to have a discussion that will leave the agency individual scratching their head and getting back into their rig.

Remember the agency individual is only a paid employee with SOME knowledge that is usually misapplied.

This usually gets some attention:

Whenever the BLM engages in administrative policies that adversely affect mining one should simply ask: Where do you get the authority to do so?"

Remember this : From FLPMA

Where both the Forest Service and the BLM are required to adhere the congressional public land management mandate of the Federal Land Management Policy Act, FLPMA, which expressly states at 43 USC 1732 (b), that, ". . . no provision of this section or any other section of this Act shall in any way amend the Mining Law of 1872 or impair the rights of any locators or claims under that Act, including, but not limited to, rights of ingress and egress" any assertion of federal authority by agency, such as the BLM or the Forest Service, impairing, obstructing or closing access against, or managing the surface of Locatable mineral deposit property on public domain in-holding the public land, or otherwise interfering in any way is committed contrary to the laws of the United States of America, a breach of fiduciary duty, and an intentional and negligent trust tort.




trust: Legal Deffinition


n. an entity created to hold assets for the benefit of certain persons or entities, with a trustee managing the trust (and often holding title on behalf of the trust). Most trusts are founded by the persons (called trustors, settlors and/or donors) who execute a written declaration of trust which establishes the trust and spells out the terms and conditions upon which it will be conducted. The declaration also names the original trustee or trustees, successor trustees or means to choose future trustees. The assets of the trust are usually given to the trust by the creators, although assets may be added by others. During the life of the trust, profits and, sometimes, a portion of the principal (called "corpus") may be distributed to the beneficiaries, and at some time in the future (such as the death of the last trustor or settlor) the remaining assets will be distributed to beneficiaries. A trust may take the place of a will and avoid probate (management of an estate with court supervision) by providing for distribution of all assets originally owned by the trustors or settlors upon their death. There are numerous types of trusts, including "revocable trusts" created to handle the trustors' assets (with the trustor acting as initial trustee), often called a "living trust" or "inter vivos trust" which only becomes irrevocable on the death of the first trustor; "irrevocable trust," which cannot be changed at any time; "charitable remainder unitrust," which provides for eventual guaranteed distribution of the corpus (assets) to charity, thus gaining a substantial tax benefit. There are also court-decreed "constructive" and "resulting" trusts over property held by someone for its owner. A "testamentary trust" can be created by a will to manage assets given to beneficiaries.





tort: Legal Deffinition


n. from French for "wrong," a civil wrong or wrongful act, whether intentional or accidental, from which injury occurs to another. Torts include all negligence cases as well as intentional wrongs which result in harm. Therefore tort law is one of the major areas of law (along with contract, real property and criminal law) and results in more civil litigation than any other category. Some intentional torts may also be crimes, such as assault, battery, wrongful death, fraud, conversion (a euphemism for theft) and trespass on property and form the basis for a lawsuit for damages by the injured party. Defamation, including intentionally telling harmful untruths about another-either by print or broadcast (libel) or orally (slander)-is a tort and used to be a crime as well.


Bejay

 

[AzViper]

Where or who has a complete copy of the 1872 Mining Law with all the amendments of,

1878 Timber and Stone Act,
1897 Organic Administration Act,
1920 Mineral Leasing Act,
1947 Mineral Materials Act,
1948 Federal Water Pollution Prevention and Control Act,
1954 Multiple Mineral Use Act,
1955 Multiple Surface Use Act,
1963 Clean Air Act,
1964 Wilderness Act,
1970 Mining and Minerals Policy Act,
1976 Federal Land Policy and Management Act,
1977 Clean Water Act,
1977 Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act,
1980 National Materials and Minerals Policy Act,
1986 Safe Water Drinking Act,
1987 Water Quality Act?

Please post a link... Thx in advance...

 

[Bejay]

That is quite a list. Prior to offering up the links I would suggest that miners realize and understand that the language in many of the Acts is extremely confusing if one does not understand the difference between locatable minerals/leasable minerals/etc and the different definitions that are applicable pertaining to language referencing them and claims. For example: the 1955 Multiple Use Act brings forth claim language that would befuddle the average person who is not skilled in mining law. I would suggest information available on americanmininglawforum.myfastforum.org :: Index
as a start. WORDS mean everything in law/Acts and one MUST use a dictionary of the time to comprehend the meaning conveyed in such Acts. http://www.constitution.org/bouv/bouvier.htm

Additionally each Act must be accompanied with a clear understanding of the previous act and the "savings clauses" brought forth in each Act. The requested list is larger than the ones I rely on. That is not to say they may not be relevant. Many of the links requested can be found on the SWOMA sight as well.

The "americanmininglawforum.com" is a great start....and offers a step by step understanding of the Mining Law Acts. It is interesting that you posted such a request and I believe there will be something new for the miner to access; that offers up such information. But that concept is still in the development stage and I look forward to seeing miners gain the ability to access all such information.

When I first began learning mining law/rules/regs/agency policies/etc I found it extremely hard to UNDERSTAND the meaning(s) of the language used in the Acts and needed to be guided through each Act step by step. The role each Act plays in the activity of mining is complex. Then of course there are endless situations of "case law" dealing with endless challenges.

The Mining Law Acts are discussed in great detail on the americanminglawforum. From a point of complete understanding of the mining laws one can bring forth other acts such as the Organic Act and the Multiple Use Act that help set the current stage for USDA (USFS) or US Dept of Interior (BLM) regulatory authority.

So for miners who are skilled in understanding mining law language all the relevant acts may be beneficial. But for the vast majority (and I use VAST with great relevance) all the Acts will overwhelm an individual and create more questions than answers.

But I believe such a request is relevant and I suggest starting with the SWOMA (Southwest Oregon Miners Association) link. And then entering the classroom on the americanmininglawforum. One must start at the beginning and work forward.

It is extremely important to understand that Congress passes laws (ACTS) and those laws are put into U.S. Code and then assigned to a particular agency to administer. So you have the law. Then it is USC.......then it is administered by an agency that sets rules/policy. Sometimes there is a lot of wiggle room by the time it gets to a regional administrative office.

bejay