Grooved Celt

quito · Mar 12, 2013

An excellent example of a rare type. From South Dakota, and the only true grooved celt I have run into in these parts.

Larson, do you have any?

NC field hunter · Mar 12, 2013

quito said:
An excellent example of a rare type. From North Dakota, and the only true grooved celt I have run into in these parts.

Larson, do you have any?

Looks like a 1/2 grooved axe to me. I have a similar one from NC. Mine is full grooved. I may be wrong, but I thought any grooved piece was considered an axe. Here is mine.

The center one. These are the only grooved pieces I have found.

GatorBoy · Mar 12, 2013

They were all "axe heads" if describing their function. The way they were made changed over time....eventually eliminating the groove and creating more of a wedge shape to tightly haft without the need for a groove and speed up production time.
That's a real cool transition piece.
Did you guys know that when hafting a true celt..the hole was shaped in such a way that only the top and bottom of the celt made contact with the inside of the hole? If the sides touched it would split the handle.

Charl · Mar 12, 2013

GatorBoy said:
They were all "axe heads" if describing their function. The way they were made changed over time....eventually eliminating the groove and creating more of a wedge shape to tightly haft without the need for a groove and speed up production time.
That's a real cool transition piece.
Did you guys know that when hafting a true celt..the hole was shaped in such a way that only the top and bottom of the celt made contact with the inside of the hole? If the sides touched it would split the handle.

PAGE 1 HAFTED UNGROOVED AXES LAT

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/north-american-artifacts/282526-hafting-celts.html

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/n...ting-pictures-full-grooved-ax-experiment.html

NC field hunter · Mar 12, 2013

GatorBoy said:
They were all "axe heads" if describing their function. The way they were made changed over time....eventually eliminating the groove and creating more of a wedge shape to tightly haft without the need for a groove and speed up production time.
That's a real cool transition piece.
Did you guys know that when hafting a true celt..the hole was shaped in such a way that only the top and bottom of the celt made contact with the inside of the hole? If the sides touched it would split the handle.

I have read the same about only the top and bottom touching in the haft. I have also read that a little slippage was desired for extra impact. The slippage sounds off to me, but if you read enough you will come across many thoughts on the hafting process. Axe heads are the coolest of all artifacts!!!

GatorBoy · Mar 12, 2013

A couple interesting links...that lithicslab site is kinda hokey to me. They even State that the example they showed of a hafted celt was not found while Hafted. The persnon who found the handle stuck it into it himself. He did a really bad job too.. splitting the handle and tearing up an artifact. I tend to go with archaeological reports of actual finds.

NC field hunter · Mar 12, 2013

This piece reminds me of a large 8 pound Celt that I found. I posted it a while back and was told it was probably an axe preform. I tumbled that around for awhile and thought, no. That's like the old "which came first the chicken or the egg" saying. Axe preform is a Celt, if what I have is in fact an axe preform. I don't think that's the case though.

GatorBoy · Mar 12, 2013

A celt is not an axe perform. They were made in two different time periods. Both were started with different end results in mind. A celt is a finished tool...same as a grooved axe is.
Concidering the fact you find grooved axes where you hunt ...your piece is likely an axe perform.

GatorBoy · Mar 12, 2013

I hope it's OK to post this... here is one of mine. Some interesting marks on the top and bottom of this one. None on the sides either.
GREAT FIND quito.

NC field hunter · Mar 12, 2013

GatorBoy said:
I hope it's OK to post this... here is one of mine. Some interesting marks on the top and bottom of this one. None on the sides either.
GREAT FIND quito.
<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=757440"/>

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=757441"/>

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=757442"/>

That piece gets prettier every time I see it. About the preform, I'm not denying that they exist. It just seems to me that the notion of the groove being unnecessary would have struck someone much earlier than it did. I think the original poster has, as you mentioned, a transitional piece.

bsit1361 · Mar 12, 2013

whatever you end up calling it im saying its a sweet artifact. Cool find!

bravowhiskey · Mar 12, 2013

Hey quito...That celt looked pretty good flat on, but when you turned it sideways it really took on a whole new persona. Beauty!

ditto on yours GB.

pickaway · Mar 12, 2013

Niceun Quito

Get-the-point · Mar 12, 2013

Very nice piece...always love a flawless artifact..... Good save quito............GTP

rock · Mar 12, 2013

That is a great looking Celt quito.

quito · Mar 12, 2013

"Looks like a 1/2 grooved axe to me. I have a similar one from NC. Mine is full grooved. I may be wrong, but I thought any grooved piece was considered an axe."

You have some nice axes there.

This one IS full grooved too. A celt is different than an axe as has been explained. Many people have both celts and axes, but not to many have a celt that has been modified for halfting. Celts just look like this one, and axes commonly look just like yours, and they don't look the same. I can't explain why, I can just show whats what.

GatorBoy · Mar 12, 2013

It is hard to describe the difference but most Celts are flattened on the top and bottom sides to fit snugly in an opening whearas most axe heads are rounded and tapered because that wasn't necessary because of the groove.

GatorBoy · Mar 12, 2013

Keeping in mind there was a transition period where traits of both were visible like the one above.

NC field hunter · Mar 12, 2013

quito said:
"Looks like a 1/2 grooved axe to me. I have a similar one from NC. Mine is full grooved. I may be wrong, but I thought any grooved piece was considered an axe."

You have some nice axes there.

This one IS full grooved too. A celt is different than an axe as has been explained. Many people have both celts and axes, but not to many have a celt that has been modified for halfting. Celts just look like this one, and axes commonly look just like yours, and they don't look the same. I can't explain why, I can just show whats what.

Im with you! Although Celt and axe are used for the same task, presence of a groove, be it full, 1/2, or 3/4, it's an axe. Never have read any different. The wedge shape is commonly seen on full grooved archaic axes. As well as the others, not calling any one wrong, just saying I'm set in my way on this one.

GatorBoy · Mar 12, 2013

NC field hunter said:
Im with you! Although Celt and axe are used for the same task, presence of a groove, be it full, 1/2, or 3/4, it's an axe. Never have read any different. The wedge shape is commonly seen on full grooved archaic axes. As well as the others, not calling any one wrong, just saying I'm set in my way on this one.

Like I mentioned.. there was a transition from one way of hafting to the other.. they are all the same thing... just like a different style of projectile point can show it's age so too with the axe and celt.
It's no different than notches or not on a projectile point.
There's no "way" to be set in... just the presence of mind to acknowledge the change in hafting style and how it effected manufacture.