Help ID Pistol Please.

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Hey guys,
Dug this pistol at the last DIV, mixed in with a bunch of Gardners, Ringtails, and Teardrops. (And a few Confederate buttons although not dug by me but I did get to watch my old man dig a nice little VA cuff) I tried like hell to find the barrel with no luck...I cannot seem to find a match for this anywhere. Checked all the books I have (admittedly not as many on guns as I should have in my arsenal I suppose) Also searched online to no avail...
I really like this piece a ton and would love to figure out what it is. Figured there's no one better at the gift of ID'ing things on the internet than y'all here!
Thanks a lot for your help!!

-JP

 

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[creskol]

I don't think it is from a pistol, toy or otherwise. I think it is from rifle. But the question is, which one? My guess is, is that it is from something similar to an Ive's Patent of Feb 14, 1888 known as Johnnie"s Little Gun.

 

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[SoMdRelicHunter]

Civil War era Boot Pistol ~ Rusted relic without wood. (Seems to be a typical style).

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Thanks Bob.
Does seem to be typical... The construction has me puzzled honestly. The way the trigger sear comes up into the frame I can't picture the action... Please excuse spelling errors fellas. Typing all these from my phone tonight.

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

It looks as if the barrel is missing. With no cylinder it must be single shot or muzzleloading. I agree its just the trigger housing and frame but the grips look kinda small in your hand.

It would be cool to see it after electrolysis.

I would like to see it cleaned up too. Never done any electrolysis yet... This will be my first.

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

I don't think it is from a pistol, toy or otherwise. I think it is from rifle. But the question is, which one? My guess is, is that it is from something similar to an Ive's Patent of Feb 14, 1888 known as Johnnie"s Little Gun.

I will be Googling that after typing this Rob. Thank you very much! I hope to get this damn thing figured out. Didn't see ya at DIV. We must've been hunting on different sides of the farm. I stayed over on the hill behind headquarters where they found several South Carolina buttons. How'd you fare?

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Does look similar doesn't it??

 

[creskol]

Not sure it's the exact same one, but my bet is that it's from something similar. I will check my books in the morning after I have my coffee.

 

[bdabney29]

no they just showed the picture it was a program on modern marvels about the history of toys and who invited each popular brand and type. I understand what you mean because I have an item on here too and I'm kinda new to this so when I see stuff I try to remember because everything I see just amazes me that it sits within our reach and yet not many people want to hold a piece of history. If I see it again or online I will send it to you.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I don't think it is from a pistol, toy or otherwise. I think it is from rifle. But the question is, which one? My guess is, is that it is from something similar to an Ive's Patent of Feb 14, 1888 known as Johnnie"s Little Gun.

Here's a picture of an Ives Little Johnnie toy cap gun (rifle). It says it measures 11" inches long.

Link: Ives "Johnnie's Little Gun" 1888 Cast Iron Cap Rifle Working Auction

 

[creskol]

How big is that assembly anyhow? Just curious??

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Yup. Looks very similar. Its approximately 6 inches from bow to stern.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

What's puzzling me more than anything else is the "angle" of the handle/end portion. It just doesn't seem to drop down or look right with the pictures I'm seeing ... and I have been looking at pistols ~ rifles ~ flintlocks ~ both real and toy. I think there is a clue to that angle.

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[SoMdRelicHunter]

What's puzzling me more than anything else is the "angle" of the handle/end portion. It just doesn't seem to drop down or look right with the pictures I'm seeing ... and I have been looking at pistols ~ rifles ~ flintlocks ~ both real and toy. I think there is a clue to that angle.

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It does seem to be a rather odd angle... Fits real comfortable in the hand however.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

What if portions of it were corroded away as illustrated below on the ...

Hubley Midget Flintlock Cap Gun? (and if not this particular cap gun, something similar to it?)(or possibly a real pistol or rifle part?)

Link: Vintage Hubley Midget Flintlock Toy Cap Gun (item #1067616, detailed views)

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[SoMdRelicHunter]

What if portions of it were corroded away as illustrated below on the ...

Hubley Midget Flintlock Cap Gun? (and if not this particular cap gun, something similar to it?)(and/or possibly a real pistol or rifle part?)

Link: Vintage Hubley Midget Flintlock Toy Cap Gun (item #1067616, detailed views)

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Could very well be... I will illustrate something that I see when I am holding it that may not be so apparent in the pics...
I have put an outline of where it seems that wooden grips of some type once were... I think that what we are looking at is minus some wood furniture for sure... Disregard the circle... It is just circling where the trigger sear comes up to the frame...

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's what is described as a portion of a dug flintlock boot pistol. This picture was difficult to find as are others like it showing only the metal parts of a pistol or rifle. I decided to post it for eximination as I am still leaning toward Allen's suggestion of the item being some type boot pistol, but not necessarily this particular one.

I have also been looking for diagrams/drawings of various pistol and rifle parts, but those are difficult to find as well.


Link: CampSite Artifacts *

What I like best about Boot Pistols is the size and shape of the trigger guards.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PS ~

I suppose everyone knows that a true gun expert is going to come along eventually and identify this thing on the spot. But its fun in the meantime to see if we can identify it before that happens.

The types of diagrams I'm looking for would be like the ones shown on the following website, but preferably diagrams of mostly Civil War era pistols and rifles. If someone know of such a site, please post it.

Link: Just click on the blue listings ... http://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/exploded.htm

Thanks.

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I like the Hubley midget idea because the barrel appears to be a seperate piece. It could be a similar style toy gun with plastic grips perhaps? Whatever it is we need to concentrate the search on similar type of removable barrel. Its not a screw on barrel. It may even be a rifle.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Please correct me if you think I'm wrong in my assumption, but I believe most of us will agree that whatever it is ~ real or toy ~ pistol or rifle, that it most likely did not have a cylinder, which for me narrows it down to one of two possible categories ...


1. Single shot pistol (flintlock / boot type).

or

2. Rifle part (with seemingly endless types).

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[NOLA_Ken]

My first though just looking at the pics was a trigger assembly from an old shotgun. It would be a big help if it were cleaned up and we could see any screw holes or pin holes that would have mounted it to whatever gun it came from. That would also help clarify what's going on in the grip area too.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm still looking for and at diagrams showing the internal workings of various pistols - rifles - and also shot guns as Nola suggested. I'm no gun expert, but based on the example diagrams below, I can't help but wonder if so many internal moving parts could corrode together and become a single rusted clump as they appear to be on SMRH's item? Or is the rusted clump just the portion that went below the moving parts?


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