Help ID Pistol Please.

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Hey guys,
Dug this pistol at the last DIV, mixed in with a bunch of Gardners, Ringtails, and Teardrops. (And a few Confederate buttons although not dug by me but I did get to watch my old man dig a nice little VA cuff) I tried like hell to find the barrel with no luck...I cannot seem to find a match for this anywhere. Checked all the books I have (admittedly not as many on guns as I should have in my arsenal I suppose) Also searched online to no avail...
I really like this piece a ton and would love to figure out what it is. Figured there's no one better at the gift of ID'ing things on the internet than y'all here!
Thanks a lot for your help!!

-JP

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Could it be the item in question is a rusted ...

You're going to be surprised when you see this link: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/275073-trigger-guard-assembly.html

... trigger guard?


I'm not saying identical to this one, but of a similar type?

View attachment 626464
View attachment 626468

Yea thats my gun. Looking at the pics side by side I think you could be right on a trigger assembly from a revolver but the trigger mechanism is frozen inside. We need to find one with a knob.

It looks now more than a slim possibility.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Big Cy ~

I hear ya, but notice that what you're seeing on the "outside" is part No.41 which is the Backstrap. The bottom of the trigger guard is "inside." And maybe (just maybe) the nub is the squarish part of the trigger guard, but rusted unto a rounded shape.

SBB

Yes I now see it as being a possibility. Like Creskol said, need to clean off the crud and it may look like a better match.

The only thing missing is the channel... if the knob is a rusted clump.. Yea could be part of the backstrap in a rusted clump along with the trigger.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The more I look, the more I think you guys are correct its a trigger guard. But my part number 44 is flat with no channel so maybe not Colt but another brand.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Until it has had a bath, it will be hard to really get an ID.

I agree with creskol, too. It needs a good cleaning/electro bath. So its up to SoMdRelicHunter now. The proof of the pudding will be to see what's under all of that rust.

Later alligators.

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Wait. I have one more pic. I think you guys nailed it.

The channel is actually a slot and the protrusion part of the trigger sticking up.

I used the same hand to hold it to compare but how the heck do you take a picture left handed SoMoRelichunter ? lol.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thats what I was trying to do but until I learn, the new format is slow as molasses for me to operate with all the unnecessary choices. It takes me at least 5x as long to post attachments and 50x as long to scroll back through the pages.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Wait! I didn't get to say ...

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Just foolin' around here. But I got a real kick outta Big Cy's wait! So here's one more to help put things into perspective. The guy claims its a circa 1901 Colt Single Action Revolver. But, as Big Cy pointed out, if the item in question is in fact a trigger guard, then it could easily be from any one of a jillion different guns.

Anyhoo, check this one out. It has huge pictures in the link and lets us see the majority of the pieces to the puzzle and how they all fit together. Just scroll down to about mid page.

Link: Rusty Colt and the Mysterious Resurrection of Steel - The Something Awful Forums

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Big Cy ~

I'm calling it quits for now, but before going I wanted to share this final link that is especially for you. In post #2 they even mention your name and were looking for you. What happened, did you miss seeing this one? I bet you would have solved it in two minutes.

Link: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/275698-gun-trigger-guard-part-help.html

By the way, (and please don't mention this to anyone) but I'm starting to think the so called trigger guard (and I honestly believe that's what it is) may be from something other than a standard revolver, and possibly even a flintlock type. The reason I say this is because of my weird angle theory. The angle of it just doesn't jive with the jillions of Colt type revolvers I've been looking at. Take another look at my post #55 and you'll see what I mean. Flintlock types are the only pistols I've seen with that "slant" to them. I'll be back if I find anything specific, especially if I find a trigger guard with a nub on the end of it.

Take care.

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I didnt see that. I miss a lot of them these days. I just dont have the time.

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Hey Guys!
Sorry I have been absent in todays discussion... Been real busy with work and just walked in the door... I originally thought the nub was meant to be a nub but now I am not so sure... I will attach some more pics for you guys... I am thinking that you guys are right about the trigger assembly for a revolver, but I just can't see how it could be a Colt type... I have an 1861 Army and didn't even think to take it apart and compare. Thanks for the pics Cy! It certainly lends credence to this newest theory. I am now wondering if the nub may be a screw or a stud that's a rusted clump at this point.. I will have to give it some electrolysis but I have not done it before so I am a bit nervous. In fact, I will go as far to say that now I am fairly certain that a revolver is what we should be looking for... I have a Guns of the Civil War book and have checked that but was looking more for a boot pistol so maybe I can check that again and find something I missed. Could be broke somehow also I suppose. The angle and length of what would be consist of the backstrap still has me puzzled...

Here's some new pics. If I missed any points/questions let me know... I tried to quote them all at once but I guess it doesn't work that way...

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

And, as far as taking left handed pics... It involved some cursing but it was the easiest way to hit the button on my giant smart phone with my short stubby fingers lol

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Just had another thought... We dug quite a few .36 caliber "Teardrop" pistol bullets in the same area that I found it. If mempry serves, they used those in a Remington... But I believe it was very similar in design to a Colt... Just food or thought!

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Creskol,
Off topic but i thought about you the other day... I have a giant Bowie style knife that needs stabilized and I remember you did some absolute magic on some canteens. I slacked and it has been sitting in may garage for two years and I came upon it the other day and felt dumb for not having taken any action to stabilize it. Didn't even occur to me at the time. I dug it in one of those few sited where there was absolutely no modern junk. Extremely long hike if i recall. It was a colonial site where we found a fistful of 1812 artillery buttons and some coppers and a solid shot cannon ball... This thing is huge! Still take on projects like this?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

And, as far as taking left handed pics... It involved some cursing but it was the easiest way to hit the button on my giant smart phone with my short stubby fingers lol

Ah OK smart phone. Takes good pics. It was hard for me to take a pic left handed with my camera.

I think you are correct. The knob may be a screw or rivet. This may be a clue.

Creskol and Bob solved it to this point but it may not be a Colt.

I dont think you can ruin iron with electrolysis. Just mix baking soda and water and connect to a battery charger. Keep plastic bucket outside. Make sure you got negative and positive correct but I forget which is which. You may corrode one of your clips if its underwater.

 

[Breezie]

I just went through 201 pages of Cast Iron Toy Pistols by Charles Best and couldn't find a match to your shape. The closest one I could find was a Stevens Firecracker, circa 1872. Breezie

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I keep saying this is my last reply, but this time I think it actually is. This is not to suggest that the revolver pictured below is directly connected to the item in question, but rather to illustrate my theory regarding the angle or slant of the handle. If in fact the item is a trigger guard, then I believe it came from a revolver that looked more along the lines of this one than it did a typical Colt variety. Just because the relic came from a Civil war era site, doesn't mean it couldn't have originated in a foreign country. I bet them good ol' civil war boys, both north and south, scorunged up every hand weapon they could get their hands on, no matter what country it was made in. Which is likely one of the reasons why there are so many different varieties around today.

SBB

Kerr ~ Made in England





Mystery rusted trigger guard thing. Made in

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

The following is to assist those who intend to do additional research regarding a more specific identification of this trigger guard. SoMdRelicHunter said in one of his initial post that the guard measured "roughly six inches long." So what I've done here is to add red marks that roughly indicate the six inches. The blue marks indicate appx two inches for the length of what I'm calling the Barrel Portion of the guard.

What I found of interest by doing this, is that 100% of the revolvers, both American and foreign, that I've looked at so far all have barrel portions ranging anywhere from about 1/2" inch to appx 1" inch. I have yet to find a revolver that has a barrel portion that even comes close to 2" inches. Which leads me to suspect there is more to the mystery than meets the eye. Meaning, the guard might be from a rifle or some other type of revolver or hand gun that we have yet to consider.

In the even that anyone chooses to continue the search, I suggest they pay specific attention to the length of the barrel portion. I believe there is a solid clue in this feature that will eventually lead to a more specific identification.


I wish I had a single example of a revolver trigger guard to show you that has a 2" inch barrel portion, but unfortunately I have yet to find one. Thus, please keep rifles and/or other types of hand guns in mind while conducting your searches. And please keep the angle/slant of the handle portion in mind. There is a clue there as well.

This link is one of the best I've seen that shows a huge variety of firearms, and also has incredibly clear and large pictures. Just pick your category of choice and go from there. The only bummer is you have to click on see photos to open each one individually. And there are hundreds of them, which could take hours to view. So far I have only looked at a fraction of them.

Link: http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/sitemap.htm

Good luck.

Sodaboggledbob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

SoMdRelicHunter ~

I realize your trigger guard needs a good electro-cleaning which will likely reveal all sorts of clues, but in the meantime could you please humor me by checking in the area where I have placed the orange arrows and see if there is even a hint of a nitch or change in thickness. The reason I ask is because if there is a nitch, then that might indicate a portion of it that was concealed within the gun and not seen from the outside. I am including a picture of the English Kerr revolver which I have placed red arrows on to indicate the area I am referring to as possibly being concealed. The primary reason for this request involves my attempt to try and explain the unusually long 2" inch barrel portion.

The closeup pictures with the red lines indicate the concealed areas ... but would likely have a nitch or change of thickness where I placed the green arrow.

I just hope I'm making sense with this and not over staying my welcome. Mainly I'm trying to determine (prove) whether the trigger guard came from a revolver or a rifle? (But I am definitely favoring some type of hand gun like the Kerr pictured here with the correctly angled handle).

Thanks a lot ... (No hurry)

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Please know that it is not my intention to drive myself or anyone else crazy with this, but I just have to add that after looking at ten jillion different types of revolvers - rifles - flintlocks - muskets - and everything in between, there is one aspect to SoMdRelicHunter's trigger guard that I will take to the bank and stake my reputation on. Which is ...

The angle of the handle is the strongest clue we have! I am 100% convinced that the trigger guard is not from an ordinary revolver like a Colt or a Remington. Nor can I find any type of rifle that matches the angle either. Which brings me to one of two possibilities. Which are ...


1. The trigger guard if from a flintlock type pistol.

or

2. The trigger guard is from a foreign type pistol.


Based on the literally hundreds of examples I've seen, these two categories are, in my opinion, the most logical choices. For me it's all about the angle of the handle ... as illustrated with the examples below.

I realize these examples are years apart and that this is anything but conclusive. I also have no idea what the inner/concealed portion of the guards look like. But I will say the angle of the handles on both guns is correct, and that somewhere among the hundreds of pistols and revolvers there is one that will eventually match the angle of the handle on the trigger guard in question.

Thanks for allowing me to indulge myself ... and just know that indulging myself is what I do best.

Gracias'

Bob

Correct angles ...





Incorrect angle ...