Help with a shipwreck piece?

[elle]

I was wondering if anyone might have an opinion about this object I am posting.
I found it a few years ago while metal detecting on the ocean beach and I am determined to come to a finalized logical conclusion one day of its origin.
I never thought about posting it until I came across Iron Spike's artifact that he posted on this forum:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,226361.0.html

I am not saying that we both found the same type of artifact...that is up for you all to decide.
But there are several similarities in the size and in the type of metal used. Iron Spike said he found his at a site that was on land that produced objects from the Colonial period all the way up to the present.

Here are some details surrounding my find. I dug it up very deep in the sand using my Tersoro Sand Shark. A couple feet away, I found some lead sheathing and remnants of some ship rigging.
When I got home and removed the encrustation, it resembled a sand dollar.
Some people would tell me it was an object made by the local Indians. I started to investigate melted trinkets and I found that most were usually made with some silver in it. Mine is not silver.

I believe it to be pewter as Iron Spike's object. As I learned, pewter was one of the main metals used in the Colonial period, and in the 1760's, more than three hundred tons of pewter were shipped annually to America.
"To the eighteenth-century housewife, pewter objects were beautiful things to be kept polished and gleaming."
Pewter is mostly tin with some copper and lead added. It is easily bent, streched, or compressed, and its low melting point makes it easily poured into molds. My object is very thin due to deteriation, but can be bent with force...I only tried once...LOL.
Now I was originally told that this was hand-made and the five openings were pounded out. My parents believe the metal left on the underside had a purpose...to catch or snag on a piece of cloth. This made me believe that maybe it was once used on the sails, but other details do not add to this theory.

I have markings on my object that were intentional on the piece...numbers from what I can make out. I read that pewter is soft and could be used again and again. A colonial family could take three pewter spoons to a pewterer and come back with buttons, buckles, and even pewter nipples for a baby bottle! The pewterer had molds and pewter was cast in wood, copper and brass molds.
A retired scientist pointed out that this piece was pounded on wood...as you can see in picture above the lines of the wood.
I started thinking that maybe this was melted in a wood mold as I had read...purposely to be used as...a label?
Then, I came across this picture:

It is a barrel top recovered from an eighteenth-century British shipwreck. The reference said it showed deep carved numerals which identified not only the contents, but the lot number, date, and weight...the broad arrow meant it was of British government property.
So when I studied this photo...I wondered if maybe labels were made purposely of pewter and then nailed down to containers...trade containers on ships and even on wooden barrels all over Colonial America. That way the barrels had no permanent markings and could be used again for future use?
Has anyone ever heard of labels used...such as metal round pieces...nailed to wood...used for identification purposes?
Or does anyone have comments as to what this could have been used for?

Thank you everyone!
Laura

 

[johnnyi]

Laura, I don't think your object is pewter. It is too uniformly thin, and being so thin, it would have deteriorated very quickly in places. You'll see from looking at older pewter button (such as the Rev War button in "today's finds") that they deteriorate very quickly and become extremely brittle with age.

 

[elle]

Maybe from a tin-plated iron sheet?

 

[johnnyi]

Perhaps that. Have you completely ruled out aluminum?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe from a tin-plated iron sheet?

Is it magnetic? You need to save everything found on those Treasure beaches because you never know what it may be. Good work on the preservation.

Ill have to think on this one. I have seen this item somewhere before. I am probably wrong but I am going to take a wild guess that it may be fireworks related. The holes were punched out for a purpose. Some kind of spinner or roman candle bottom maybe. I may be completely wrong here but it looks familiar.

Another wild guess would be the bottom of a candle. Did you say the size?

 

[IronSpike]

It really does look like a sand dollar. It's interesting that metal was left in place where the triangular holes were made.

I agree the metal appears similar to the piece I found and may also be due to the pitted corrosion both pieces. I thought mine was silver and never did determine the metal other than it isn't silver. I'll test it tomorrow.

 

[johnnyi]

That's it. It is the little disc under a citronella candle (the candle which keeps mosquitos away at the beach!)

 

[elle]

No not magnetic...but then not all iron is magnetic. When heated at high temperature it looses its magnetism.
Pewter also not magnetic...what is interesting is that an old pewter spoon I saw has the same appearance as this metal artifact.
Would a bottom of a mosquito candle be made so crudely and uneven...with number markings and wood indentations on it?
The scientist was from Argonne National Labratory who told me about the wood indentation marks embedded into the metal.
But please don't stop with the opinions...that's why I came to all of you...I need all the help I can get...thank you so much!

P.S. Has anyone else here ever find a small piece of pewter in the seawater or one that has washed onto the beach that has been exposed for many years with the sea elements?
Is it possible that the encrustations evolving on the piece over the years actually helped in preserving the inside metal?
I did polish this piece to make it shiny and it is worn thin from aging...there are small places on it where one can almost see through slight holes. In the last two years, when I haven't polished the object, it has turned to a dull gray color loosing its vibrant brightness.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I meant will a magnet stick to it. I believe a magnet will stick to all ferrous metals even the heated ones. If a magnet will not stick to it, it may be aluminum or pewter but I dont know how you could test.

Where are the wood indentations?

I think I see some writing now. Is that a 2?

How large is it?

 

[johnnyi]

Laura, if I can interupt again, it is definately not pewter. Pewter degrades badly in the ground. it degrades even worse in the sea. I live by the sea, dig revolutionary artifacts in the salt marches, and know this to be fact. You can prove it to yourself that this is something modern. . Do you see the little tabs that are bent back? The fact they they are able to have been bent sharply as they are shows you that the original thickness of this object was very thin, for no metal corrodes away evenly to a thin state with such delicate bent spurs completely intact. Again, I think you will find this to be the underside of a candle, probably a citronella candle used at the beach. Often they have metal disks underneath with spurs like your's. Maybe you even have one in a drawer you can check.

 

[elle]

Thank you Bigcypresshunter for helping!

It is magnetic...yes...I just tested and it sticks well!

I think I was confused with another piece I'm trying to figure too... that is not magnetic...one I think is a remnant of space missile stuff that everyone talks about...I found on Space Coast.

Anyways...ok...it must have some iron in it.
I am curious...could a candle have been placed on those left-over metal prongs sticking up (this being a possible base holder)?
If so...this would not have been a recent candle base, would it? It seemes so crudely made...and yes...those are numbers.
So happy you can see them!
Oh...1 and 1/2 inches going around the circle.

Thank you Johnnyi...I posted and didn't read your reply first. Thank you also for your help!

P.S. Bigcypress...the wood indentations are the lines going up and down vertically on the metal. You can see them...look closely.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ah OK so it was in contact with wood according to the lab. The numbers makes it interesting. The 2 kinda looks like old text. Ill try to help but I am leaving town for a few days.

 

[elle]

Thank you!........

...and have a safe and fun-going trip! 8)

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thank you!........

...and have a safe and fun-going trip! 8)

Thanks. Im going to work. I work in the Big Cypress National Preserve Tues. Wed. & Thurs. . Its a beautiful area but a little hot right now and too many Pythons. Be back Friday.

 

[Tnmountains]

Elle
Sounds to easy to be the base of candle. I have seen those and they do look similiar. What gets me is the age look to it and more importantly the wood grain indentions... They look to be an end grain mark like what you would see on the end of a log. The grading system for a log is how many knots per foot. That being said its very common for the # 2 to be two knots per foot and pretty good grade. The spurs or v cuts would make it easy to tap once with a hammer into an end grain log during the logging part on the way to the mill. Logs are graded in the field and an end grain is always seen when stacked so when selling a load or shipment you could get your prices per grade.
Lots of stuff shipped from S.America now may be something they used and fell off.
I will look for you when I have more time. I know they are called punched tooth metal or stamps.
Good luck
TnMountains

 

[frogwizard]

Looks like the back of a pendant that I have.

 

[IronSpike]

Cool piece frogwizard and I see the pendant back as possible

The metal taps had a function and this suggestion likely.

 

[elle]

Frogwizard...you are incredible with your pictures! Thank you...all you guys!
I've gotten farther in one evening than all two years put together of having this object.

Here is one more picture:

 

[frogwizard]

Thanks Elle. Although, I still haven't figured out how to make the pics go together instead of them being so far apart from each other. They just keep doing that.

Thanks Ironspike. It was given to me about 35 years ago. A neighbor moved to Arizona and sent this to me. The chain is also copper. Don't know if the turquoise is real or not. It looks like either bakelite or plastic to me.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks Elle. Although, I still haven't figured out how to make the pics go together instead of them being so far apart from each other. They just keep doing that.

For some reason you are posting an entire page. Are you scanning a picture? I think you only need to crop them again before posting.