What's new

Help with a shipwreck piece?

  • Thread starter Thread starter elle
  • Start date Start date
E

elle

Guest
I was wondering if anyone might have an opinion about this object I am posting.
I found it a few years ago while metal detecting on the ocean beach and I am determined to come to a finalized logical conclusion one day of its origin.
I never thought about posting it until I came across Iron Spike's artifact that he posted on this forum:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,226361.0.html

I am not saying that we both found the same type of artifact...that is up for you all to decide.
But there are several similarities in the size and in the type of metal used. Iron Spike said he found his at a site that was on land that produced objects from the Colonial period all the way up to the present.

Here are some details surrounding my find. I dug it up very deep in the sand using my Tersoro Sand Shark. A couple feet away, I found some lead sheathing and remnants of some ship rigging.
When I got home and removed the encrustation, it resembled a sand dollar.
Some people would tell me it was an object made by the local Indians. I started to investigate melted trinkets and I found that most were usually made with some silver in it. Mine is not silver.

encrusted.jpg

sanddollartrinket1.jpg


I believe it to be pewter as Iron Spike's object. As I learned, pewter was one of the main metals used in the Colonial period, and in the 1760's, more than three hundred tons of pewter were shipped annually to America.
"To the eighteenth-century housewife, pewter objects were beautiful things to be kept polished and gleaming."
Pewter is mostly tin with some copper and lead added. It is easily bent, streched, or compressed, and its low melting point makes it easily poured into molds. My object is very thin due to deteriation, but can be bent with force...I only tried once...LOL.
Now I was originally told that this was hand-made and the five openings were pounded out. My parents believe the metal left on the underside had a purpose...to catch or snag on a piece of cloth. This made me believe that maybe it was once used on the sails, but other details do not add to this theory.
Picture061.jpg

I have markings on my object that were intentional on the piece...numbers from what I can make out. I read that pewter is soft and could be used again and again. A colonial family could take three pewter spoons to a pewterer and come back with buttons, buckles, and even pewter nipples for a baby bottle! The pewterer had molds and pewter was cast in wood, copper and brass molds.
A retired scientist pointed out that this piece was pounded on wood...as you can see in picture above the lines of the wood.
I started thinking that maybe this was melted in a wood mold as I had read...purposely to be used as...a label?
Then, I came across this picture:
Picture055.jpg

It is a barrel top recovered from an eighteenth-century British shipwreck. The reference said it showed deep carved numerals which identified not only the contents, but the lot number, date, and weight...the broad arrow meant it was of British government property.
So when I studied this photo...I wondered if maybe labels were made purposely of pewter and then nailed down to containers...trade containers on ships and even on wooden barrels all over Colonial America. That way the barrels had no permanent markings and could be used again for future use?
Has anyone ever heard of labels used...such as metal round pieces...nailed to wood...used for identification purposes?
Or does anyone have comments as to what this could have been used for?

Thank you everyone!
Laura
 
How many numbers can you read? Can you point them out? I can only see the 2 but it looks like an older style font but Im not sure how long ferrous metal can survive in a saltwater environment. unkown elle.gif
 
Upvote 0
jpitt1970 said:
Looks like the top of a drink container, opened with an old timey can opener...not that old.

Why would you need 5 holes for a drink container :icon_scratch: I think frogwizard has the right idea that the taps held something in place.
 
Upvote 0
I think that drink container thing is getting close. It looks like someone wanted to drain off the juice of a canned product so punched holes with a "church key" and drained the liquid, Then opened it up with a canopener. I'm an amateur cook and have done this lots of times in the home kitchen. Some canned goods are hard to drain like saur kraut, pork 'n beans, etc. Just my wag. Monty
 
Upvote 0
I see the point with holes for drink container, however notice how evenly the holes are spaced.
 
Upvote 0
Bigcypresshunter...thanks for coming back to my object last week. Hey, could you get me a free tour to alligator watch at the Reserve?...LOL.
Much appreciation also to those others who are brainstorming.
I can see where the can opener idea sparked...the only thing is that the wood indentations indicate the metal was poured or pounded onto wood. The openings also are exact in measurement from each other. When I open a can, I press down anywhere...why were these tabs so perfectly cut?
There is probably only one way to solve this mystery. When I originally found this, there were some spikes found near too.
When the spikes were sent to Texas A&M, they came back being dated from late 1600's to early 1700's. I have had to listen to my father for two years now argue that just because one object is old...it doesn't mean another nearby is that old too...it could be from yesterday! Yes...I know...LOL...but I did get the urge to seek out if metal could actually be dated as wood is tested.
When I was at Argonne two years ago, the professor said there was a retired scientist who actually DID do testing on metal but I would have to send it to Austria. At the time I did not want to part with it in case it would get lost in transit. I think this might be the only way to finally determine if this is a shipwreck piece or a recent article of scrap.
By the way...the one retired scientist from Argonne told me the story how they were actually the test lab when Mel Fisher found the Atocha. The silver was sent from the State of Florida to finalize if the metal was indeed 17th century and real. Kinda interesting, eh?

Thanks IronSpike for observing the equal distant holes....you are brilliant! I didn't know you wrote that while I was writing my post.
Thank you again for your time.
 
Upvote 0
Elle, I don't believe your object was pounded into or against wood. I actually tested this theory on my own the other day by both pounding, as well as rubbing tin foil, thin tin stock, and very thin brass stock against the end grain of pine, walnut, black walnut, and oak. Although end grain looks bold to the eye, it does not transfer to foil or the other metals, but instead it very rough and irregular. You will see this for yourself if you try it.

The "ribs" on your object are very thin and evenly spaced. They are also perfectly parallel. I think you will find that the ribbed lines you see are a combination of the pressure of the feeding roller used to finally process this metal, combined with the general corrosion which makes the ribs seem more pronounced.

Again, I think that after taking a walk through home depot or another store that sells outdoor candles, you'll see very soon that this is the common disk of metal impressed into the bottom of many outdoor candles, and acts as a feature to guard against the last bit of wick scorching or starting a fire on whatever it is placed upon.
 
Upvote 0
No BigCy, they are not scanned. I resized them in paint, then posted from My Pic. folder. It has done this every time I try to post more than one pic. I guess I need more lessons on posting multiple pics. :dontknow:
 
Upvote 0
frogwizard said:
No BigCy, they are not scanned. I resized them in paint, then posted from My Pic. folder. It has done this every time I try to post more than one pic. I guess I need more lessons on posting multiple pics. :dontknow:

I think it is an editing problem not a posting problem. Your pics are being read as 2288 x 1712.
 
Upvote 0
Frogwizard...here is what I use...as long ago I also had issues with posting-editing pictures.

Go to www.photobucket.com.
Apply as new user...it is free. Give them a sign-in name and a password.
The screen will then say...."Upload Pictures" and the word "options" underlined under.
Before uploading a picture from your personal computer file...press "options" to choose the size you want the picture to be.
The first post on this thread (scroll up) I used (MEDIUM-320 by 240) for the first two pics of my artifact.
The third pic I used (LARGE-640 by 480).
My avatar is (SMALL-160 by 120).
Press the size you want!
Upload your picture.
When it says complete...there will be 4 lines under your uploaded picture...(EMAIL, DIRECT LINK, HTML CODE, AND IMG CODE).
Right click on IMG CODE. Press "COPY."
Go to TNET...to your post page. Write what you want to say...and when you're ready to put your picture in...right click and press "PASTE."
A line will appear of letters-the IMG CODE....like www.photo80887....whatever it is.
Then when you finally press POST on TNET...the picture will appear for everyone to see!

Hope this helps!
 
Upvote 0
Thank you all for the photo help. I will try that next time I post any photos.
 
Upvote 0
taz42o said:
frogwizard said:
No BigCy, they are not scanned. I resized them in paint, then posted from My Pic. folder. It has done this every time I try to post more than one pic. I guess I need more lessons on posting multiple pics. :dontknow:

I think it is an editing problem not a posting problem. Your pics are being read as 2288 x 1712.
Yes it looks as if you need to crop off the large white portion. I right clicked save as on your pic and I got a lot of white. I cropped it down in Irfanview. It should look like this. Crop and repost.
 

Attachments

  • bell_copper_back crop.gif
    bell_copper_back crop.gif
    35.1 KB · Views: 286
Upvote 0
elle said:
Bigcypresshunter...thanks for coming back to my object last week. Hey, could you get me a free tour to alligator watch at the Reserve?...LOL.
Right now Im working on the Python watch LOL with Bob Hill. He stops where I work on the Loop Road. We ask the hunters to bring in any Pythons they find ...dead of course. Its become a serious problem. Here is Bob Hill's story. He has 300 kills including a 16 1/2 footer. A new more aggressive breed is showing up to add to the problem. The African Rock Python.
 
Upvote 0
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing.
What you do sounds very involved and challenging.
You should go to schools and give lectures on the animals which are part of the Reserve.
 
Upvote 0
Cyphuntr
Good video seems like a nice guy. I bet they feel like a speed hump at night :thumbsup:
hh
tnmtns
 
Upvote 0
elle said:
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing.
What you do sounds very involved and challenging.
You should go to schools and give lectures on the animals which are part of the Reserve.
Sorry to hijack your post. I enjoy being out in the Big Cypress. Its not really work. It will be nice when the weather cools down. Its like a vacation.

Here is a pic of my tent in the background where I stay while im working with my shower and the artesian well in the foreground where I get my water.
 

Attachments

  • big cypress 2008 021.webp
    big cypress 2008 021.webp
    38.1 KB · Views: 282
  • big cypress 2008 021.webp
    big cypress 2008 021.webp
    38.1 KB · Views: 252
Upvote 0
TnMountains said:
Cyphuntr
Good video seems like a nice guy. I bet they feel like a speed hump at night :thumbsup:
hh
tnmtns
I tell people if the snake stretches from one side of the road to the other, to run it over.
They have eaten all the small animals. There are no racoons, no wild hogs and now they are eating deer and alligators.
 
Upvote 0
Oh my marshmellows Bigcypresshunter...your days are so exciting!
You know, one day I want to produce "treasure hunting" documentaries, and you are going to be
the first I come to film.
We're going to go way into the swamps and find valuable ancient fossils and arrowheads...
while fighting off pythons and alligators!
 
Upvote 0
elle said:
Oh my marshmellows Bigcypresshunter...your days are so exciting!
You know, one day I want to produce "treasure hunting" documentaries, and you are going to be
the first I come to film.
We're going to go way into the swamps and find valuable ancient fossils and arrowheads...
while fighting off pythons and alligators!
Its really not that exciting with so little treasure but its a pretty area.

Heres a video of our new nightmare, the African Rock Python. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090911-pythons-florida-giant-snakes.html

Ill leave it for a few days and delete it so as not to use so much space.
 
Upvote 0

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom