Hobby? Ask yourself this question.

[mxer47]

Many of you are aware of the tactics of the green movement (govt. agency's included) to define us as hobbyist or recreational gold prospectors, some are not aware.
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time prospecting in the sierras and continually look forward to each trip out. When I find a deposit of gold I try different techniques and equipment configurations to maximize my profit with the hope of freedom. This freedom I hope for is the ability to work the ground for enough money to live without having to rely upon anyone else for a period of a time, or ever. Some of you have done this already and I am envious. Some are just starting and I wish you all the luck. But if you call yourself a hobbyist or consider this a recreation ask yourself this question, if during your next trip you found a deposit you could replace your income with would you quit your job stake a clam, and start mining? If so you are a prospector period. If not for the sake of people like me who hope for freedom please refrain from using the terms hobby or recreation. Thank you.

 

[Pirate George]

Anyone go out and chop down trees as a hobby?
Of course not, it's done either as a source of income or to save money on heating bills.

Clearly some folks do go gold panning simply for the sheer fun of it as well as experiencing the joy that an outdoor activity surrounded by nature provides. Same thing with fishing and hunting. All three of those activities can also be done as a second source of income..... a primary source of income.... or on a larger scale done commercially. Just none of those other activities have as great of earnings potential as that of Gold mining.

The government wants their share of any income based activity and since "recreational hobbyists" pay no taxes on their gold finds which could easily add up to millions of dollars annually in lost tax revenue now that gold is selling for well over $1000.00 an ounce and with an estimated several million so called recreational miners and growing, the government has no reason to support "recreational" miners.

I believe it's really the value of gold that makes "recreational" mining such a target. And the powers that be are using any means necessary to put an end to it, even if it means getting into bed with the greenies. Back when gold was only $300 an oz. it was under the radar and no notice was taken, but things have changed and now Uncle Sam wants to put an end to it.

It's a whole different story though when a families primary source of taxable income is at stake even if it is only from a second income source. The government has a hard time turning down potential revenue and putting more folks on the dole. (well accept for liberals )

This Country was founded on the principals that we have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!

But now the doctrine of Government for the People by the People seems to have been replaced by government for the purpose of taxing and spending all the money they can get their greedy hands on.

United we stand, Divided we fall! If you're not part of the solution then...........

Go for the gold,
(while you still can)

GG~

Nice speech...are ya running for office.....no one can stop what the politicians and lobbyist want....so I guess I have given up giving a dam and live in my own happy little world.....and I have papers to prove I am crazy...

 

[mxer47]

Just because someone doesn't earn a living mining or even show a profit doesn't mean he isn't a miner. That is the process of prospecting. Searching for deposits and making the deposits you find profitable is a right the law has afforded me. It doesn't mater if I do it on weekends or daily. It doesn't mater if I have another source of income or if that source is primary. It maters that I under law have the right to do it. using the terms hobby and recreational puts us all at risk of loosing those rights.

 

[Goodyguy]

Trouble is ......more and more of our rights are either being taken away altogether or else being re-defined as privileges.

 

[mtau]

We are either part time prospectors, full time prospectors, part time miners, or full time miners. The difference is whether you are looking for a claim, or you have a claim. By labeling us "hobbyist" or "recreationalists", the political agenda can eliminate us without causing any reduction to our income, so we have no grounds for reimbursement. Also we are no longer covered by the 1872 mining laws.

 

[Pirate George]

Trouble is ......more and more of our rights are either being taken away altogether or else being re-defined as privileges.

As this site seems to be for treasure I guess I can put a few dumb words in...what can you really do except have a drink and complain. Organized groups seem to start in the right direction and end up bust. Individuals do not stand a chance alone. I do not disagree with you. But I sure like to drink and complain, makes me sound well informed when I am drinking, at least to me in my world.

 

[jog]

I like prospecting and it's a new hobby for me. I'm also educated in mineral and water rights and I am a commodities broker. Once thing small prospectors should know. The fed and the rest of the worlds countries that buy sell and produce precious metals do not care nor ever will about a guy pulling in a half ounce a week. Our gold will never affect the market. That is why you can't organize. Because big mining interests are all the fed and others will listen to. Your better off lobbying your local towns to put aside parks for recreational gold panning and sluicing. If you really need to stomp on our federal land to pull gold you believe is yours if found then go for it. But somewhere in my gut it doesn't feel 100% right to take what's all of ours and then cry because I can't go back for free and dig more gold and then never expect to give back anything. Buy a claim improve it dig a bunch a damn holes fill em back in take your gold cash it in give to a lawyer who will gladly write a letter to your congressman. We can organize only if all us weekend prospectors gave up all the gold we ever get forever.

"SO", your new to mining?
People ask why would the anti geen machine go after miners, well this post is a perfect example.
I don't know about you but when I go to the refiner to sell my gold there very happy to see me and last time I checked I was getting paid the same for my placer gold as was the big mining corp. Go get a Fed, mining claim and spend the time paying your fees and doing the paper work, then claim your just a hobby miner. Lets see how far that gets you.
Do you keep the gold you find or do you release it back into the wild like a fish? I would be willing to bet that you keep it "right"? so you have created wealth and I mean true wealth, not just passing paper money around that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. If you only mined a 1/4 Oz a year and sold it, or didn't it doesn't matter it's still creating wealth and you profit from it unless you are releasing it back into the wild which I dought.

 

[Goodyguy]

As this site seems to be for treasure I guess I can put a few dumb words in...what can you really do except have a drink and complain. Organized groups seem to start in the right direction and end up bust. Individuals do not stand a chance alone. I do not disagree with you. But I sure like to drink and complain, makes me sound well informed when I am drinking, at least to me in my world.

We are fighting an uphill battle for sure against well funded adversaries that are well aware that if you offer most politicians enough money they will spread their wallets wide open and give them anything they want just like a $2 crack whore.

GG~

 

[triple d]

If the government wants to tax gold. Then so be it. We can claim it as a business. And get pretty good refunds on our income taxes. Who wins there. With the few specks I find. Should get a good refund.

 

[ssdevilfish]

When I go fishing and it's a hobby. I take my limit go home instead of fish market where I would spend anywhere from 5-10 dollars a pound and do my part by contributing my wealth to my local fish market. So tell me when I bring home 16 brook trout that total 8 pounds of eatable flesh am I not creating wealth with this fishing hobby by saving a minimum of 40 dollars?? And it does damage to my local fish market. What is the difference between that hobby and the measly few grains we all get weekend prospecting Well for one when we pull gold it's all free and no one feels the impact before hand. I dare say that the prospecting hobby is just that. Unless you buy claims go big and choose to invest to make a living at it. I could make a damn good living selling my fresh wild Wyoming brook trout for say twenty a pound after I smoke and package. Now that's making profit from our god given government land. Cool off people none of us on treasure net are probably ever going to hit so big that we quit our jobs. But after seeing the numbers I'm going fishing. Lol. Hahajajajahahahaha

 

[Pirate George]

When I go fishing and it's a hobby. I take my limit go home instead of fish market where I would spend anywhere from 5-10 dollars a pound and do my part by contributing my wealth to my local fish market. So tell me when I bring home 16 brook trout that total 8 pounds of eatable flesh am I not creating wealth with this fishing hobby by saving a minimum of 40 dollars?? And it does damage to my local fish market. What is the difference between that hobby and the measly few grains we all get weekend prospecting Well for one when we pull gold it's all free and no one feels the impact before hand. I dare say that the prospecting hobby is just that. Unless you buy claims go big and choose to invest to make a living at it. I could make a damn good living selling my fresh wild Wyoming brook trout for say twenty a pound after I smoke and package. Now that's making profit from our god given government land. Cool off people none of us on treasure net are probably ever going to hit so big that we quit our jobs. But after seeing the numbers I'm going fishing. Lol. Hahajajajahahahaha

I like your attitude!

 

[Goodyguy]

We are referring to the ban on dredging not on panning!
Even though just panning is already forbidden in some areas. The dredging ban is just a starting point. Recreational fishing and hunting may soon be banned as well if the animal rights wackos have their way. Even the Department of Fish and Game have changed their name to "Wildlife Management" to reflect the changing attitudes and times.

NOTE: You would be surprised at how much gold a dredge can take in in a day in the hands of an expert.
More money than you can catch with a rod and reel in a day for sure.
That's all I'm going to say about that.

GG~

 

[ssdevilfish]

Dredge costs thousands a pole is ten bucks a reel same and worms I can dig up for free on government land. I line up twenty fish prospectors a day they all catch 16 at twenty a fish. Now you can have your dredge and water and mud and expense. Where going fishing. Lol. Oh but wait. We all agreed to put regulations on fishing just for this very reason. So did you think the gov would stop at hinting and fishing for profit? Buy a claim and stop whining. No whine till you actually mine.

 

[AzViper]

Most, and I mean 99.9-percent of all "recreational" gold prospectors could make better money as a part-time greeter at Wal-Mart. We do this because we ENJOY it for the most part, making a little money at it is a bonus.

This statement sum it up for 99.9% of miners, you would be better off being the greeter at Wally World, dang and I was looking forward to being the Flashing Blue Light guy at Kmart. You sure know how to stick your foot in your mouth...

 

[Goodyguy]

Dredge costs thousands a pole is ten bucks a reel same and worms I can dig up for free on government land. I line up twenty fish prospectors a day they all catch 16 at twenty a fish. Now you can have your dredge and water and mud and expense. Where going fishing. Lol. Oh but wait. We all agreed to put regulations on fishing just for this very reason. So did you think the gov would stop at hinting and fishing for profit? Buy a claim and stop whining. No whine till you actually mine.

Sorry If you think standing up for a cause is whining.

Evidently you are not aware that as far as owning a mine goes, even a patented placer mine where you actually own the land and not just the mineral rights, in the state of California dredging is still banned not only on a mineral claim but even on your own patented mining property!!!
Also permits are required for all waterway mining in California except for panning. If you think it wont happen in your state, think again. Other states are looking at California as a model for their own pending legislation.

So much for that argument.
GG~

 

[dredgeman]

Dredge costs thousands a pole is ten bucks a reel same and worms I can dig up for free on government land. I line up twenty fish prospectors a day they all catch 16 at twenty a fish. Now you can have your dredge and water and mud and expense. Where going fishing. Lol. Oh but wait. We all agreed to put regulations on fishing just for this very reason. So did you think the gov would stop at hinting and fishing for profit? Buy a claim and stop whining. No whine till you actually mine.

Well,
We have mining claims, mine for gold, and only work at mining.
So far we have pulled out over 200 ounces between 5 guys in two years. We have defended our selves in court and won multiple times. Still we hear this same argument.

The rights we are born with in this country are unique, they occur in no other place and are practiced here as in no other time in history. So have a light attitude while your rights are being flushed. We will stand and be counted as our ancestors did. You can stay home and wonder

 

[Lanny in AB]

I love trying to solve the riddles and mysteries of Mother Nature's attempts to hide her sassy gold.



I love adventure and having those adventures in the majestic domain of the everlasting mountains.



I love the looks of wonder on the faces of the rookies that catch their first glimpse of gold in the pan, or while detecting, catch their first glimpse of gold as they uncover their first nugget.



I love the crystal clear waters, and I love the inquisitive fish that swim freely around me while I dredge.



I love to expose and then pull nuggets from the secret crevices of the bedrock while I’m deep in the water, especially when the sun is shining over my shoulder--that's a sight I'll never, ever forget.


I love exploring old cabins and mine sites to then connect myself with the lonely ghosts of lost labors and toils long since past.



I love the sight of sluice riffles loaded with gold.



What kind of gold miner does that make me or to which category do I truly belong?

It doesn't matter I guess, because whatever it is, I flat out love it.


All the best to all of you that love it as I do,

Lanny

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting-gold/69-bedrock-gold-mysteries.html

 

[ssdevilfish]

Then blame the governator for signing the bill. With the intense drought in California I would think you would be more concerned that the entire forests on Cali probably and can burn this summer. And with lack of water it's going to be scary. I am not against dredging whatsoever but some regulation in some areas is needed. As far as patented claims go there won't be many if any more of those. Since 1994 very few. We could fight and lobby but it has to be national amendments to the 1872 laws not just California. It's an uphill battle. But I'm in for sure. If done right. Remember once we take the gold there is no more Mother Earth will produce. So how much and where would you like to take the stand. On your backyard creek?? Or on every gold bearing creek?? You see the problem now. Sorry Cali had messed up laws but hey you can move to Colorado or Nevada or Montana and so on. And bring your dredge it's legal in a lot of places. I'm still going fishing and taking my limit. But next year Mother Earth will make more. So yes sir the ole trout is worth it's weight in gold over time on the same stream your dredging. Time to protect it all. Both fish prospecting and our god given right to prosper on our land. So I've decided to invest in offshore fish farming and forego the purchase of an $6000 dredge. Lol. When the fight is right I'll come in punching. Just as I did to protect the mighty and beautiful cutthroat trout here in Colorado. Catch and release only for me. As far as my gold goes. I keep it and marvel at what nature can do. But if I hit a big lode I'll hire everyone on this site to come help me tear up the ground and get the gold. Till then I'm loving this hobby.

 

[calnatv]

In N. Cal, Trinity County, the National Forest Service hired a bunch of geologist (1980's) to prove that there was no longer any land in the NF where there is enough gold to make a profitable living, therefor no new claim could be patented.
Don't think the fight is a new one.
I'm retired and prospect as a hobby, I've never sold any gold. I'll keep it till the **** hits the fan and the dollar is worthless.
The NF was set up to provide recreational land for the public use. That is why the outcry over cattle, logging, mining on federal land began. In the end it does not matter. Calling your self anything will make no difference. The fight is not about mining, it's about the government controlling every aspect of our lives. It's one thing to mine on public land and another to make a profit from it. The outcry because a company uses public land for profit is a tough one to fight.
But fight we must! Pick any reason you want but stick together. Don't let them divide us to win.

Yep. It's not new. Those same geologists you talk about referred to "recreational/hobby miners" several times. Stating over and over again "not a economically feasible deposit to develop at this time".

 

[fowledup]

Some perspective and a reality shot for ya all. As I write this 25 seperate individuals have responded to this thread. 18 understand the significance, reasoning and importance of not using the terms recreational, and hobby. Terms that regardless of what you call yourself are detrimental to the overall preservation of mining as a whole. 7 of those that responded are either self proclaimed hobbyists, recreational prospectors, or indifferent to the whole Ordeal.

THAT IS MORE THEN A THIRD OR ROUGHLY 38%, AND THAT IS ON A PRO MINING WEBSITE FORUM!!!!
Jog you nailed it, except for I'd exchange "sad" for frickin PATHETIC.

Glad I'm able to help you out Terry! I hope my time, money, and efforts keep your business with the "Bucket Listers" booming for a long time to come! I don't know, I was brought up to give back to what gives to you. Take care of what takes care of you and when in a fight, win or lose make damn sure they know you were present.

 

[Goodyguy]

I love trying to solve the riddles and mysteries of Mother Nature's attempts to hide her sassy gold.
I love adventure and having those adventures in the majestic domain of the everlasting mountains.
I love the looks of wonder on the faces of the rookies that catch their first glimpse of gold in the pan, or while detecting, catch their first glimpse of gold as they uncover their first nugget.
I love the crystal clear waters, and I love the inquisitive fish that swim freely around me while I dredge.
I love to expose and then pull nuggets from the secret crevices of the bedrock while I’m deep in the water, especially when the sun is shining over my shoulder--that's a sight I'll never, ever forget.
I love exploring old cabins and mine sites to then connect myself with the lonely ghosts of lost labors and toils long since past.
I love the sight of sluice riffles loaded with gold.

What kind of gold miner does that make me or to which category do I truly belong?
It doesn't matter I guess, because whatever it is, I flat out love it.


All the best to all of you that love it as I do,

Lanny

What kind of gold miner does that make you?

The kind of gold miner who enjoys the freedom to do what you so passionately love.
We here in the States are fighting for our freedom to do just that. (well some of us are)

Wish you well my friend,
GG~