How many believe the moon landing was...

[Kentucky Kache]

Apparently its more important to a "dumb country boy", since the majority of us know it was real and it's only the hoax theorists who continue to scream and post fake. You don't see the average person posting threads about it being real, only those looking for attention by claiming it was haox, fake, that the evil government is lying to us, they act like it is their duty to educate us.

NASA is not running around trying to prove its real, it's the fringe hoax theorists who are screaming it's fake, it's the same as those who scream that 9/11 was a hoax put on by the government to get support to attack Muslim countries. It's all BS....

Okay, I feel a little embarrassed for you. Think about what you just posted. NASA doesn't continue trying to convince us that the ML was real. I'll give you one guess why that is. And if you'll look (something you don't like to do), you'll see that I'm only responding to people who are talking to me.

One other thing. You say I won't change, because I just want to believe what I believe. But I already have. I changed the way I had been brought up believing, in favor of something that gets me put down. Can you say that about yourself? So, who is it that WON'T change? I did.

 

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[ClonedSIM]

Yes, it was a result of the space race, which is my point. We were in a race that we were loosing. If we hadn't done it, then someone else would have. There you go.

Of course it had to happen, but would you be crying foul if Russia had landed first? Why the big upset that the US beat them to the punch? As a matter of fact, where are the Russian detractors? You'd figure they'd be the first in line for this conversation.

"As far as questioning what's been told to us, why don't you question the motivation behind the people you study that say this event didn't happen? Forget for a moment the pictures and video that someone else says proves the moon landing didn't happen, and look to why they're saying this."

The people saying this have no axe to grind. In fact, they face ridicule for their stance. Why would they be willing to do that? I can tell you by experience, it's not a small thing to stand up and say these things in toady's world. Almost everyone thinks you're crazy, or uneducated. You don't set out to try and make people think of you that way. It's a genuine belief. And it doesn't mean I don't believe in technology, because I do. I just believe that this is one that they put over on us. And I'm not just taking their word for it. The "C" marker IS on the rock...the lander DID go up like it was being pulled by a cable...their was no blast or debris from the lander...and various other things. I don't agree with everything they say, but I do agree with most of it.

So the conspiracy theorists are gluttons for punishment? Or, maybe they have dreams of martyrdom? The non-believers do, in fact, have an ax to grind. If they didn't, they wouldn't exist. There's a reason for their beliefs, a motive that drives them on their quest. You have one too.

1. C - To give the US population a victory and sense of pride.

You can't deny that was one of the perks. The Moon landing did indeed make this country the greatest...the strongest, that's a fact. It gave us a lot more than a sense of pride. MOTIVE? Is that impossible? I believe 1.- A,B,C, and D.

So why are you working so diligently to take that away? Other countries see how folks, such as yourself, so publicly criticize one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of man. Whether or not they agree with you, I'm sure they're quite tickled that you seem to have so little respect for this feat.

"As you can see, even if the whole thing was a hoax, at least NASA had worthwhile motives for their lies, which the landing dis-believers have questionsable, at best, motives for believeing as they do."

Thank for that admission. Did you really mean to say that?

What admission? I prefaced my statement with the words "even if," identifying the following thought as a hypothetical or "for-display-purposes-only" situation.

"Another thing you need to study is this: when NASA released their footage and recordings and photos and the rocks they brought back, they simply put the information out there and let folks decide for themselves. Non-believers, on the other hand, use anything they believe supports their theory to try and convince others that it was a hoax, even if the "evidence" they produce is questionable. This, I feel, is where the difference lies."

Compare the two parts in bold. You make it sound like NASA didn't do anything. Take another look. Released footage of men walking on the surface of the moon, complete with sound...brought back rocks from the surface of the moon. You make it sound like they just simply ask people to blindly believe. No, they had something great to show, much greater than the detractors had.
It wasn't until later when people started seeing things that didn't look exactly right.

You're absoutely right when you say they brought back rocks and footage and recordings and released it to the general public. But at any point did they say "Ooooh, look here, do you see how Neil jumped really high there? That proves we were in space becasue there wasn't much gravity."

Whereas, if you take a look at the non-believers, they scream at the top of their lungs, or at least their keyboards, about every tiny segment of film they feel shows their theory is true.

Another big thing here is that NASA did what they did, and let it drop once everything had been released for people to make up their own minds. They don't keep on beating this particular dead horse, they carried on with more missions and further research. Theorists, however, spend a big chunk of their time essentially calling the people at NASA liars, attempting to tarnish this spectacular event, and doing whatever they can to mar this face of this accomplishment and the people involved. They drag out the same tired arguments time after time, disregard the same evidence time after time, generate no new finds time after time but, like you, they say there are no motives for this. Can you see why you might not be the most popular person on the thread?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Hoax theorists post their rants only to get attention, what they post has nothing to do with facts at all as seen here.

Don't feel embarressed for me, I would look into your mirror first, there lies the problem......

Heck, don't trouble yourself feeling embarressed or sorry for me at all, I go home every night to a beautiful and sexy Oriental woman 20 years younger then me, and even looks at least 10 years younger then her actual age...LIFE IS GOOD for me.


Peace out.....................

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sigh, next you will try to tell me that there is no Santa Claus sheesh

This much I will say. One of our supposedly highest secrets are our Atomic bomb techniques. This involves relatively few personnel, all of whom were thoroughly checked for security, yet, the Russians / Chinese managed to convince several to tell them all.

While to fake a moon landing, would have involved many, many more people, from caterers, secretaries, carpinters, painters, electricians . film handlers, lighting technicians etc., etc. with no effective security clearance, yet after all of these years, 'none' have come forward to claim their moment of fame and fortune by exposing it as a hoax??

No-one has gotten drunk and blabbed, nor told their girl / boy friend, family,
nor anyone, bragged on the internet, lost any notes, pictures, or even remnants of the filming sequence etc., etc. Not human, as any psychologist or criminal investigator can tell you..

Why are the Russians / Chinese still sitting on their hands, when this would be a fantastic diplomatic coup and a tremendous loss of face and creditability for the US?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Yes, it was a result of the space race, which is my point. We were in a race that we were loosing. If we hadn't done it, then someone else would have. There you go.

Of course it had to happen, but would you be crying foul if Russia had landed first? Why the big upset that the US beat them to the punch? As a matter of fact, where are the Russian detractors? You'd figure they'd be the first in line for this conversation.

"As far as questioning what's been told to us, why don't you question the motivation behind the people you study that say this event didn't happen? Forget for a moment the pictures and video that someone else says proves the moon landing didn't happen, and look to why they're saying this."

The people saying this have no axe to grind. In fact, they face ridicule for their stance. Why would they be willing to do that? I can tell you by experience, it's not a small thing to stand up and say these things in toady's world. Almost everyone thinks you're crazy, or uneducated. You don't set out to try and make people think of you that way. It's a genuine belief. And it doesn't mean I don't believe in technology, because I do. I just believe that this is one that they put over on us. And I'm not just taking their word for it. The "C" marker IS on the rock...the lander DID go up like it was being pulled by a cable...their was no blast or debris from the lander...and various other things. I don't agree with everything they say, but I do agree with most of it.

So the conspiracy theorists are gluttons for punishment? Or, maybe they have dreams of martyrdom? The non-believers do, in fact, have an ax to grind. If they didn't, they wouldn't exist. There's a reason for their beliefs, a motive that drives them on their quest. You have one too.

1. C - To give the US population a victory and sense of pride.

You can't deny that was one of the perks. The Moon landing did indeed make this country the greatest...the strongest, that's a fact. It gave us a lot more than a sense of pride. MOTIVE? Is that impossible? I believe 1.- A,B,C, and D.

So why are you working so diligently to take that away? Other countries see how folks, such as yourself, so publicly criticize one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of man. Whether or not they agree with you, I'm sure they're quite tickled that you seem to have so little respect for this feat.

"As you can see, even if the whole thing was a hoax, at least NASA had worthwhile motives for their lies, which the landing dis-believers have questionsable, at best, motives for believeing as they do."

Thank for that admission. Did you really mean to say that?

What admission? I prefaced my statement with the words "even if," identifying the following thought as a hypothetical or "for-display-purposes-only" situation.

"Another thing you need to study is this: when NASA released their footage and recordings and photos and the rocks they brought back, they simply put the information out there and let folks decide for themselves. Non-believers, on the other hand, use anything they believe supports their theory to try and convince others that it was a hoax, even if the "evidence" they produce is questionable. This, I feel, is where the difference lies."

Compare the two parts in bold. You make it sound like NASA didn't do anything. Take another look. Released footage of men walking on the surface of the moon, complete with sound...brought back rocks from the surface of the moon. You make it sound like they just simply ask people to blindly believe. No, they had something great to show, much greater than the detractors had.
It wasn't until later when people started seeing things that didn't look exactly right.

You're absoutely right when you say they brought back rocks and footage and recordings and released it to the general public. But at any point did they say "Ooooh, look here, do you see how Neil jumped really high there? That proves we were in space becasue there wasn't much gravity."

Whereas, if you take a look at the non-believers, they scream at the top of their lungs, or at least their keyboards, about every tiny segment of film they feel shows their theory is true.

Another big thing here is that NASA did what they did, and let it drop once everything had been released for people to make up their own minds. They don't keep on beating this particular dead horse, they carried on with more missions and further research. Theorists, however, spend a big chunk of their time essentially calling the people at NASA liars, attempting to tarnish this spectacular event, and doing whatever they can to mar this face of this accomplishment and the people involved. They drag out the same tired arguments time after time, disregard the same evidence time after time, generate no new finds time after time but, like you, they say there are no motives for this. Can you see why you might not be the most popular person on the thread?

Honestly, I don't know what I would be doing if Russia had claimed it first. That's like asking what I would be doing had Hitler won. I think I would still be standing for what I believe to be true, especially if that country continually thumped it's chest as the greatest country in the world.

We've already covered this, but...
Why would the Russians doubt? No one else doubted, at least no one who was considered important. They had no reason to doubt, because they SAW and HEARD the footage and KNEW the scientific theories behind it. Why would they not believe like everyone else? And even if they did have doubts, what could they have done about it?

Indeed everyone has their reasons for believing what they believe. But if we have an axe to grind, what is it? Please tell me. Gluttons for punishment? Where do you get that? Or, maybe they have dreams of martyrdom. What are you getting at? Sounds like you're trying to raise an argument of a different sort. Are you? Do you really find it that hard to except that some people put a value on truth and what they believe? If I have an axe to grind, that would be it. Why else would I stand to be laughed at? So while everyone is laughing at me (even other countries), you can put your feet up and lock your hands behind your head. You have defeated the enemy.

Why am I working so diligently to take away what I believe to be a lie? First let me be clear. I don't think anyone is going to change whats ingrained in them because of me, so I think you can rest assured that the country is safe with their secret.

Actually they DO scream about their accomplishments. You don't remember the coverage? And did you see the reaction they had to the "unbeliever's" claims a few years ago? Talk about foot-in-mouth. Of course after a little time they came up with some good explanations.
I saw the "unbelievers" calmly telling what they were saying. No jumping...no screaming. And the strange thing is, most of what they said makes sense - those things really exist. I can't speak for the internet forums on the subject, as I don't follow them as you seem to do.

Why would NASA beat a dead horse? They are the ones who killed the horse. They killed it by convincing a patriotic country who wanted to win the game that they had won. And if you know anything about games, the only thing that matters are the officials. They have the last word. However, if you'll look at those old news broadcasts, you'll see that they did a pretty good job of hyping.

You know why they drag out the same tired arguments time after time? because the "C" is still in the footage you claim as your proof. The lander still went up as pulled up by a cable. All this happened in the footage you claim as proof. Did you see Armstrong jettison from the lander only days before he "landed" it on the moon? It was pitiful. Tired old arguments, but so far no one, including NASA, has been able to offer anything but excuses and reticules explanations. And what is the evidence that we keep disregarding? Would it be the film footage with all the mistakes in it? Talk about tired old arguments.
Could it be you want us to generate new finds because you don't know how to explain the old finds?

Let me see if I can help you understand. If I was going for popularity, would I have made this stand? What are you talking about? My motive is to stand for what I believe. Truth is that important to me.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Hoax theorists post their rants only to get attention, what they post has nothing to do with facts at all as seen here.

Don't feel embarressed for me, I would look into your mirror first, there lies the problem......

Heck, don't trouble yourself feeling embarressed or sorry for me at all, I go home every night to a beautiful and sexy Oriental woman 20 years younger then me, and even looks at least 10 years younger then her actual age...LIFE IS GOOD for me.


Peace out.....................

Well, you got me there. I lost my family and you still have yours. Congratulation on that, as that is more important than the moon landing.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Short stack you posted-->

'One final point. I do believe that when Don Jose mentioned Pearl Harbor and Guadelcanal, he was pointing out that even though none of us was at either of those places during WW2, we have no doubt that those battles really happened and were not produced on a backlot in Hollyweird'
~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are correct to a point my friend. It was a trap, however he did not take the batr, and also, Yes, I 'was' there.

I entered into the Guadalcanal campaign on Aug 11, 1942.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Kentuck: For the record, I like you, and enjoy your posts. So it rather hit home about your family, I personally am deeply sorry for your loss..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[ClonedSIM]

So if you admit that you aren't going to change any minds, and that NASA has won and that the American public won't suddenly decide that the skeptics are all right, then why not invest your energy elsewhere? Remember my reference to beating a dead horse? This is exactly what you're doing here. Fighting a self-proclaimed unwillable battle. If you're convinced that you're right, then let it be.

And my mention of "martyrdom?" Maybe you don't understand the word. You know you're going to catch flak, get laughed at, have your ideas pi$$ed on, and you know you'll never make any headway, but you keep on doing it despite this. Some delusional souls might say you have an unbreakable spirit, but I think you have a vision of being a martyr for your "cause."

Stand for what you believe, by all means, but maybe you should stand somewhere else? North Korea I'm sure would welcome you with open arms, and Dear Leader would certainly agree with your perspective.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Sigh, next you will try to tell me that there is no Santa Claus sheesh

This much I will say. One of our supposedly highest secrets are our Atomic bomb techniques. This involves relatively few personnel, all of whom were thoroughly checked for security, yet, the Russians / Chinese managed to convince several to tell them all.

While to fake a moon landing, would have involved many, many more people, from caterers, secretaries, carpinters, painters, electricians . film handlers, lighting technicians etc., etc. with no effective security clearance, yet after all of these years, 'none' have come forward to claim their moment of fame and fortune by exposing it as a hoax??

No-one has gotten drunk and blabbed, nor told their girl / boy friend, family,
nor anyone, bragged on the internet, lost any notes, pictures, or even remnants of the filming sequence etc., etc. Not human, as any psychologist or criminal investigator can tell you..

Why are the Russians / Chinese still sitting on their hands, when this would be a fantastic diplomatic coup and a tremendous loss of face and creditability for the US?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Why do you guys keep resorting to these tactics? You'd think you were worried about something.

I don't think all those people you mentioned would have had to been in the know. If I'm an electrician, you could call me in to fix a wire or a board without telling me every detail of what its all about. Everyone could have gone through the sequences just as they were taught to do and never know that things were not happening as they were being told. The ones that were in the know kept it all together, and you can believe they were enough of them to do the job, but it wouldn't have to have been thousands, or even hundreds. You can believe they knew how to plan it. Richard Nixon wasn't planning this one.

Actually, some who have come forth DID work at NASA at the time. Also, some have died mysterious, or at least strange deaths. Who knows.

Do you know for certain that film hasn't been destroyed? Former NASA people ARE blabbing.

"Why are the Russians / Chinese still sitting on their hands, when this would be a fantastic diplomatic coup and a tremendous loss of face and creditability for the US?"

See the many posts where we have already talked about that.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Your reasoning has more holes in it then Swiss cheese.

The Russians did not believe because the rest of the world believed, they believed because they could not find any evidence to prove otherwise. The supposed c means nothing at all. The Russians would have done everything in their power to prove it a fake, including going over every single frame of video, every single picture released, every radio transmission.

You evidently know nothing of the Russian's government's mind at that time. We were at the height of the cold war, everything we did was under suspicion by the Russians, they did not accept anything, we were constantly on the verge of WW III, fleets of Russian Bear bombers were constantly launched towards our airspace. turning around just as they approached our airspace in a game of cat and mouse. .....

The Russians did not accept it because the world did, they accepted it because it happend, and they could prove nothing fake. You think they haven't seen the pictures you have, you think if there was even a hint of a hoax they wouldn't have jumped all over it, thrown ever dollar they had and every spy in this country to prove it fake, they didn't because they knew they would lose, they couldn't prove anything and would look a fool.

I know from experience if they could have proved it wrong they would have spent any amount of money to do so. Having worked for Airforce Intelligence from 1967 to 1971 I had the highest security clearance you could have at the time, Top Secret SIOP (Sensitive Information Operational Plans) ESI (Extra Sensitive Information) the only exception was I had to be escorted through Crypto. I could walk in the intelligence library and read any document I wanted. I know what their mindset was.

But you know more then anybody, you have the evidence the entire Russian government couldn't find. When you have no answer your reply is "we have already covered that", that's a cop out.

Go ahead and believe the moon is made of green cheese if it makes you feel better.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

So if you admit that you aren't going to change any minds, and that NASA has won and that the American public won't suddenly decide that the skeptics are all right, then why not invest your energy elsewhere? Remember my reference to beating a dead horse? This is exactly what you're doing here. Fighting a self-proclaimed unwillable battle. If you're convinced that you're right, then let it be.

Unless you think YOU'RE going to accomplish this, then evidently you're choosing to beat the same horse. I don't see it as an unwinable battle. And if I stood elsewhere for what I believed, that wouldn't be much of a stand. It's not impossible that someone will see whats being said and recognize that everything is not what it seems.

And my mention of "martyrdom?" Maybe you don't understand the word. You know you're going to catch flak, get laughed at, have your ideas pi$$ed on, and you know you'll never make any headway, but you keep on doing it despite this. Some delusional souls might say you have an unbreakable spirit, but I think you have a vision of being a martyr for your "cause."

I can assure you I understand the word Martyrdom. Just ask the folks on Timberwolf's pages. They accuse me of overusing the word. I don't consider myself a martyr for this.
So is that why you stand the other way, because you know you WON'T be laughed at and catch flak, etc? And you know your headway has already been made, right? I don't have to hear anyone say I have an unbreakable spirit. My spirit has been broken many times, and I still ain't perfect. Could it be that it's YOU who don't understand the word Martyr? Read church history. I'm no martyr.

Stand for what you believe, by all means, but maybe you should stand somewhere else? North Korea I'm sure would welcome you with open arms, and Dear Leader would certainly agree with your perspective.

So, if you don't believe in the Moon landing, you would make a good communist, Muslim, etc? That sounds like the kind of propaganda those countries use. You might want to rethink that. Or, maybe not.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Why do you guys keep resorting to these tactics? You'd think you were worried about something.

I don't think all those people you mentioned would have had to been in the know. If I'm an electrician, you could call me in to fix a wire or a board without telling me every detail of what its all about. Everyone could have gone through the sequences just as they were taught to do and never know that things were not happening as they were being told. The ones that were in the know kept it all together, and you can believe they were enough of them to do the job, but it wouldn't have to have been thousands, or even hundreds. You can believe they knew how to plan it. Richard Nixon wasn't planning this one.

Actually, some who have come forth DID work at NASA at the time. Also, some have died mysterious, or at least strange deaths. Who knows.

Do you know for certain that film hasn't been destroyed? Former NASA people ARE blabbing.

"Why are the Russians / Chinese still sitting on their hands, when this would be a fantastic diplomatic coup and a tremendous loss of face and creditability for the US?"

See the many posts where we have already talked about that.

Anyone NASA brought in to work on this project wouldn't have to know all the specifics to understand what was going on and being done. Even if they didn't understand at the time, as soon as NASA released the footage they would have been able to put 2 and 2 together easily. If you, as an electrician, were called in to a movie set to wire a bank of lights, you would be able to read a lot just by what you saw. Signs, individual characters, set dressing, props, all of these things are context clues you could use to figure out what was taking place.

And you go on about how "NASA knew how to plan this," yet still say that they didn't have enough collective knowledge not to release footage that was less that perfect?

As far as the Russia/Chinese argument, you say it's been addressed, but it really hasn't, you've just given your opinion. You seem to know so much about what went on with this "hoax," why don't you know this as well?

These countries would stand to gain tons of credibility, and make the US lose tons at the same time, by going public with this. Either of these two would jump at the chance to do this in a heartbeat, but why haven't they? Well, chances are that they feel the "proof" you point to isn't enough to make a claim of this nature. And you can bet your butt they've looked at doing exactly this, both now and in the past. Yet not a peep.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Your reasoning has more holes in it then Swiss cheese.

The Russians did not believe because the rest of the world believed, they believed because they could not find any evidence to prove otherwise. The supposed c means nothing at all. The Russians would have done everything in their power to prove it a fake, including going over every single frame of video, every single picture released, every radio transmission.

You evidently know nothing of the Russian's government's mind at that time. We were at the height of the cold war, everything we did was under suspicion by the Russians, they did not accept anything, we were constantly on the verge of WW III, fleets of Russian Bear bombers were constantly launched towards our airspace. turning around just as they approached our airspace in a game of cat and mouse. .....

The Russians did not accept it because the world did, they accepted it because it happend, and they could prove nothing fake. You think they haven't seen the pictures you have, you think if there was even a hint of a hoax they wouldn't have jumped all over it, thrown ever dollar they had and every spy in this country to prove it fake, they didn't because they knew they would lose, they couldn't prove anything and would look a fool.

I know from experience if they could have proved it wrong they would have spent any amount of money to do so. Having worked for Airforce Intelligence from 1967 to 1971 I had the highest security clearance you could have at the time, Top Secret SIOP (Sensitive Information Operational Plans) ESI (Extra Sensitive Information) the only exception was I had to be escorted through Crypto. I could walk in the intelligence library and read any document I wanted. I know what their mindset was.

But you know more then anybody, you have the evidence the entire Russian government couldn't find. When you have no answer your reply is "we have already covered that", that's a cop out.

Go ahead and believe the moon is made of green cheese if it makes you feel better.

So, did the Russians do anything?
Do YOU know the Russians mind at the time?
And you know, for sure, the Russians couldn't find any evidence to prove the ML wrong? How do you know?
The supposed c means nothing at all. You're right. And that's how NASA gets away with it. But It does mean something to some.

You say the Russians would have done everything in their power to prove it a fake, including going over every single frame of video, every single picture released, every radio transmission. Did they do that? What did they do?

You would not have been in on the secret.

 

[ClonedSIM]

So if you admit that you aren't going to change any minds, and that NASA has won and that the American public won't suddenly decide that the skeptics are all right, then why not invest your energy elsewhere? Remember my reference to beating a dead horse? This is exactly what you're doing here. Fighting a self-proclaimed unwillable battle. If you're convinced that you're right, then let it be.

Unless you think YOU'RE going to accomplish this, then evidently you're choosing to beat the same horse. I don't see it as an unwinable battle. And if I stood elsewhere for what I believed, that wouldn't be much of a stand. It's not impossible that someone will see whats being said and recognize that everything is not what it seems.

And my mention of "martyrdom?" Maybe you don't understand the word. You know you're going to catch flak, get laughed at, have your ideas pi$$ed on, and you know you'll never make any headway, but you keep on doing it despite this. Some delusional souls might say you have an unbreakable spirit, but I think you have a vision of being a martyr for your "cause."

I can assure you I understand the word Martyrdom. Just ask the folks on Timberwolf's pages. They accuse me of overusing the word. I don't consider myself a martyr for this.
So is that why you stand the other way, because you know you WON'T be laughed at and catch flak, etc? And you know your headway has already been made, right? I don't have to hear anyone say I have an unbreakable spirit. My spirit has been broken many times, and I still ain't perfect. Could it be that it's YOU who don't understand the word Martyr? Read church history. I'm no martyr.

Stand for what you believe, by all means, but maybe you should stand somewhere else? North Korea I'm sure would welcome you with open arms, and Dear Leader would certainly agree with your perspective.

So, if you don't believe in the Moon landing, you would make a good communist, Muslim, etc? That sounds like the kind of propaganda those countries use. You might want to rethink that. Or, maybe not.

I believe the moon landing happened because it did happen. I didn't have to choose a side, as there's never been a question in my mind. Believe it or not, as I can see you don't, I don't have a problem for standing up for what I believe. Why else am I posting here now?

You yourself admitted this was a great victory for America and the people living in her, yet you don't believe it happened and have no problem telling everyone this should be taken away. I'm selling propaganda? Hardly. Along with martyr, maybe you should look up the word before you try to use it.

Given the massive number of assumptions you've just made, I have no real choice but to believe that you make similar assumptions regarding the "proof" and "evidence" you wave around. You believe what you want, and ignore everything else. You don't research, you cherry-pick.

How about an experiment? Let's talk about the atomic bombing at Hiroshima, for example. Google you heart out, and find every site or reference you can saying this didn't happen. I bet you'll find just as much "evidence" for this stance as you would for your moon landing theory. Does that mean it's true?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Why do you guys keep resorting to these tactics? You'd think you were worried about something.

I don't think all those people you mentioned would have had to been in the know. If I'm an electrician, you could call me in to fix a wire or a board without telling me every detail of what its all about. Everyone could have gone through the sequences just as they were taught to do and never know that things were not happening as they were being told. The ones that were in the know kept it all together, and you can believe they were enough of them to do the job, but it wouldn't have to have been thousands, or even hundreds. You can believe they knew how to plan it. Richard Nixon wasn't planning this one.

Actually, some who have come forth DID work at NASA at the time. Also, some have died mysterious, or at least strange deaths. Who knows.

Do you know for certain that film hasn't been destroyed? Former NASA people ARE blabbing.

"Why are the Russians / Chinese still sitting on their hands, when this would be a fantastic diplomatic coup and a tremendous loss of face and creditability for the US?"

See the many posts where we have already talked about that.

Anyone NASA brought in to work on this project wouldn't have to know all the specifics to understand what was going on and being done. Even if they didn't understand at the time, as soon as NASA released the footage they would have been able to put 2 and 2 together easily. If you, as an electrician, were called in to a movie set to wire a bank of lights, you would be able to read a lot just by what you saw. Signs, individual characters, set dressing, props, all of these things are context clues you could use to figure out what was taking place.

And you go on about how "NASA knew how to plan this," yet still say that they didn't have enough collective knowledge not to release footage that was less that perfect?

As far as the Russia/Chinese argument, you say it's been addressed, but it really hasn't, you've just given your opinion. You seem to know so much about what went on with this "hoax," why don't you know this as well?

These countries would stand to gain tons of credibility, and make the US lose tons at the same time, by going public with this. Either of these two would jump at the chance to do this in a heartbeat, but why haven't they? Well, chances are that they feel the "proof" you point to isn't enough to make a claim of this nature. And you can bet your butt they've looked at doing exactly this, both now and in the past. Yet not a peep.

Yes, it HAS been covered, but if you want to rehash it, that's fine. Okay, why didn't Russia do anything. Because they were duped like the rest of the world. Take a look at what said. If such a man as he was fooled, why wouldn't the Russians, standing afar off, be fooled? And I didn't say I "know" all these things, I'm telling you what I think probably happened. You guys are the ones who "know."

Sorry, but I don't see why everyone working on things would have to know all the whys.

And I said their strong point was planning, not movie making. I think THEY proved that.

As far as I know these things I'm talking about were not brought out until just a few years ago. What would the Russians have brought up against the project?

 

[ClonedSIM]

So, did the Russians do anything?
Do YOU know the Russians mind at the time?
And you know, for sure, the Russians couldn't find any evidence to prove the ML wrong? How do you know?
The supposed c means nothing at all. You're right. And that's how NASA gets away with it. But It does mean something to some.

You say the Russians would have done everything in their power to prove it a fake, including going over every single frame of video, every single picture released, every radio transmission. Did they do that? What did they do?

You would not have been in on the secret.

Did the Russians do anything? No.

Does he know the Russians mindset at the time? Does he have to? The Cold War, the space race, the US landing on the moon first? Doesn't take a genius to figure out the Russians were darn well pi$$ed at us.

Did the Russians find anything to prove the landing was faked? No. Again, doesn't take a genius to sort this one out. The Russians wouldn't have quietly come to NASA and the US Government to let them know the jig was up if they did find proof. The US beat them to the moon, even if they beat us into space. The Russians would have released their findings to every country on the planet, screaming that the US lied and faked their great victory. You can't honestly believe they would have kept quiet about it, can you?

You're really grasping now. I honestly think you finally ran into a fact that you can't counter or argue with or hide behind. There were a lot more people that believed the US faked the landing the day after we told the world about it. Almost all of them lived in Russia. If it was a point of national pride for the US, it was a matter of disgrace for the Russians, who did manage to get Sputnik launched before we could.

Do you remember what happened when we learned about Sputnik? National frenzy; people were worried about it spying on us, about it dropping bombs on us, about thousands more being launched until the Russians owned the sky. The astronomical segment turned all their telescopes toward it, hoping to find nothing at all, yet there it was. We saw it with our own eyes. There were people like you running around trying to tell everyone that it wasn't real, but they were wrong, too.

Can you imagine anything different taking place when we told the Russians that we landed on the moon? And you honestly believe they sat on their hands and just accepted it?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I believe the moon landing happened because it did happen. I didn't have to choose a side, as there's never been a question in my mind. Believe it or not, as I can see you don't, I don't have a problem for standing up for what I believe. Why else am I posting here now?

No, you believe it because you think you're right. I understand that. And yes, you DID choose to believe it, as did the whole world, myself included. There never was a question in anyone's mind until we found things to make us think.
You don't have a problem standing for what? It don't take much effort to float with the flow.

You yourself admitted this was a great victory for America and the people living in her, yet you don't believe it happened and have no problem telling everyone this should be taken away. I'm selling propaganda? Hardly. Along with martyr, maybe you should look up the word before you try to use it.

Taken away? I'm trying to take away the Moon landing? I must be a great fella.
Yes, your propaganda is to make those who think contrary to you look like a communist, or something that is hated. Propaganda.

How about an experiment? Let's talk about the atomic bombing at Hiroshima, for example. Google you heart out, and find every site or reference you can saying this didn't happen. I bet you'll find just as much "evidence" for this stance as you would for your moon landing theory. Does that mean it's true?

Convince me that Hiroshima has anything to do with what we're talking about and you've got a deal. If you can't, please try a new tactic. I wonder if there is more for or against Hiroshima.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Did the Russians do anything? No.

Does he know the Russians mindset at the time? Does he have to? The Cold War, the space race, the US landing on the moon first? Doesn't take a genius to figure out the Russians were darn well pi$$ed at us.

Did the Russians find anything to prove the landing was faked? No. Again, doesn't take a genius to sort this one out. The Russians wouldn't have quietly come to NASA and the US Government to let them know the jig was up if they did find proof. The US beat them to the moon, even if they beat us into space. The Russians would have released their findings to every country on the planet, screaming that the US lied and faked their great victory. You can't honestly believe they would have kept quiet about it, can you?

You're really grasping now. I honestly think you finally ran into a fact that you can't counter or argue with or hide behind. There were a lot more people that believed the US faked the landing the day after we told the world about it. Almost all of them lived in Russia. If it was a point of national pride for the US, it was a matter of disgrace for the Russians, who did manage to get Sputnik launched before we could.

Do you remember what happened when we learned about Sputnik? National frenzy; people were worried about it spying on us, about it dropping bombs on us, about thousands more being launched until the Russians owned the sky. The astronomical segment turned all their telescopes toward it, hoping to find nothing at all, yet there it was. We saw it with our own eyes. There were people like you running around trying to tell everyone that it wasn't real, but they were wrong, too.

Can you imagine anything different taking place when we told the Russians that we landed on the moon? And you honestly believe they sat on their hands and just accepted it?

Then if the Russians didn't do anything, they must have believed it was real. We all have agreed to that, but you wanted to bring it up again, so here we are. I've said all along the Russians didn't do anything because they were duped along with the rest of us. Why would they doubt a scientific possibility?

No, he doesn't have to know the Russians mindset at the time. So why does he think I need to?
No matter how mad they might have been, what could they do? Nothing. They didn't have anything to prove with. None of us did until just a few years ago. They had nothing to go on at the time.

What is this great obstacle I have run in to? Can you tell me? I see nothing but the same old rehashed vomit that you've been spewing from the first. Okay, so there was a country full of doubters in Russia. Fine. What were they to do? Nothing they COULD do at that time. Where's my great wall?

"Do you remember what happened when we learned about Sputnik? National frenzy; people were worried about it spying on us, about it dropping bombs on us, about thousands more being launched until the Russians owned the sky. The astronomical segment turned all their telescopes toward it, hoping to find nothing at all, yet there it was. We saw it with our own eyes. There were people like you running around trying to tell everyone that it wasn't real, but they were wrong, too."

And you don't think that was motive for getting to the Moon first? Interesting.

"Can you imagine anything different taking place when we told the Russians that we landed on the moon? And you honestly believe they sat on their hands and just accepted it?"

Different? What do you mean?
I don't know what they sat on, but what were they to do?

 

[ClonedSIM]

I believe the moon landing happened because it did happen. I didn't have to choose a side, as there's never been a question in my mind. Believe it or not, as I can see you don't, I don't have a problem for standing up for what I believe. Why else am I posting here now?

No, you believe it because you think you're right. I understand that. And yes, you DID choose to believe it, as did the whole world, myself included. There never was a question in anyone's mind until we found things to make us think.
You don't have a problem standing for what? It don't take much effort to float with the flow.

I don't believe I'm right or wrong. I believe what I've seen and heard because I have no reason to believe otherwise. The "proof" you choose to believe is extremely unconvincing, and very clearly exists because someone owning a dislike of something (government, NASA, Kennedy, Armstrong) chose to try and make an issue out of it.

And you asked "You don't have a problem standing for what?" Did you just pretend to read my post??

This also lets me know that you consider yourself a maverick, one who goes against the grain. The question is, do you do this because all of your beliefs are contrary, or because you crave the attention this brings you?

You yourself admitted this was a great victory for America and the people living in her, yet you don't believe it happened and have no problem telling everyone this should be taken away. I'm selling propaganda? Hardly. Along with martyr, maybe you should look up the word before you try to use it.

Taken away? I'm trying to take away the Moon landing? I must be a great fella.
Yes, your propaganda is to make those who think contrary to you look like a communist, or something that is hated. Propaganda.

This is exactly what your goal is. You believe it didn't happen, and you want everyone else to believe it as well. If this wasn't your ultimate reward, you wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. But you did. You asked a question, and as soon as someone said that it did happen, you began trying to convince them it didn't. This is your propaganda.

How about an experiment? Let's talk about the atomic bombing at Hiroshima, for example. Google you heart out, and find every site or reference you can saying this didn't happen. I bet you'll find just as much "evidence" for this stance as you would for your moon landing theory. Does that mean it's true?

Convince me that Hiroshima has anything to do with what we're talking about and you've got a deal. If you can't, please try a new tactic. I wonder if there is more for or against Hiroshima.

The bombing has plenty to do with what we're talking about it, unless you try to take it out of the context in which I presented it. I made a very clear comparison between what may be found created by skeptics "proving" the bombing didn't occur, and the "proof" regarding the moon landing you choose to hang your hat on.

The very fact that you wondered aloud whether there is more evidence for or against the bombing is quite telling, actually. It means that you are more than willing to change your mind about world events if anyone in cyberspace tells you to.