How many coins will I find?

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Beale....I do these test often....Not for money or anything like that. It sharpens my skills and proves to me that the Ideomotor Response has not tried to take control. When I find gold over and over when in the field I am told it is because I am in a gold bearing area. The fact is that I am the first person to ever see and hold that gold. No ones mind to read or body language to give the location away or any other of the excuses used by them. Why would any one look for gold in a non-gold producing area. Your not going to find gold if there is none to be found. Right now I have 3 bowls on my Kitchen floor and my wife is hiding a silver dollar for me to locate.(it snowed last night) I am testing a piece of equipment for the people down the street. In between tests I am reading the instruction book trying to find out how come it's not working.

I post my methods and how I test for the people who are silent on the forum. I know they are there because I get PM's and e-mail from some of them. Dowsing will never be excepted until someone invents a cheap tool to measure these signals from objects. I think there may be an expensive tool out there right now that can measure the signals from objects.

I am glad you are still playing around with Dowsing and if you need any information I would be happy to help...Art

 

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[aarthrj3811]

The three bowls of gold on your table is most likely iron pyrite? If you can find that much gold you must be in one of the richest claims around? Panning for gold is not dowsing for it?

I said.....

Right now I have 3 bowls on my Kitchen floor and my wife is hiding a silver dollar for me to locate.

If you dig a 1 1/2 foot deep hole and there is 30 flakes of gold in it. That amount of dirt or gravel would fill a 5 gallon bucket. Tell me how you would get the 30 flakes of gold out of the dirt or gravel? Everyone keeps telling me about Placer Gold and they only prove that they don't have a clue as to how to find it and process it....Art

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=Carl-] I understand statistics, so I understand what to expect if dowsing does not work.
********
Now you are being rediculous carl, you actually know better, even in your own heart, that pure dehumanized statistics cannot prove anything regarding dowsing.

Tropical Tramp

 

[aarthrj3811]

The power of suggestion (Mental Programming) and repetition, is the method used to develop a trained ideomotor response. Like any computer, the human biological computer responds according to it's programming and the data that entered.

Poor programs, and inaccurate data entered, results in incomplete data, and wrong information.

The critics need to delete and update the obselete data & programs they are presently using in their own Bio-computers, and install more advanced programming for a better understanding. "Prejudice" and "Ego" are not a good programs for a human Bio-computer.

"The door to knowledge & understanding is never open to a closed, or prejudiced mind" Dell

Right on the mark Dell...Nancy Reagan said it best....JUST SAY NO to the sub-concsious mind, we will do it this way...Art

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=Carl-Good.the dog sleeping in the chair is a result of thousands of years of selective breeding. And even though, through all those years, the people that did the breeding didn't have a clue about genetics, they nevertheless used observation and prediction -- hallmarks of rational science -- to produce the kinds of dogs they wanted. So even the dog is not an exception.
- Carl

************
Carl I simply cannot believe that without statistical proof. what did they do before Father Mendel and his fruit flies?

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=SWR
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
art
The power of suggestion (Mental Programming) and repetition, is the method used to develop a trained ideomotor response. Like any computer, the human biological computer responds according to it's programming and the data that entered.
*************
Sigh swr sometimes I wonder about your world. i suggest that you check up on medical self Hypnosis. Programing your bran is exactly what is involved, . Programing can also be done in the waking state by an experience or a negative atmosphere.

Art is basically correct.

I suggest that you do a bit of research on it before you put your foot into xxx.

tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=SWR
", telling skeptics how they should program their bio-computer. Scam, fraud and deception are not good programs for a human bio-computer either. I suggest you do an upgrade as well
************************
Basically still valid, art is correct on the bio-physical /ideomoter reaction, but you are correct this time swr

Tropical Tramp

 

[aarthrj3811]

Prove that scam, fraud and deception are not programs, but "Prejudice" and "Ego" are...because you say so? wow

A wire bent into the shape of an L-Rod (like what you manufacture) is the basic staple of the dowser. Now you claim you do not manufacture one of these novelty dowsing contraptions? wow

Gee SWR....I have made about 100 different L-Rods...Now you say that making a L-Rod amounts Fraud and deception....You do know that jumping off a cliff is not dangerious...It's the sudden stop at the bottom that is the problem. In other words ...You are out of control....Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey SWR.....I worked for 3 years diving at depth of 50 to 75 feet. Since you are an expert on dowsing how do the rods react at this depth?...Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Quote from: aarthrj3811 on Today at 06:06:39 PM
Hey SWR.....I worked for 3 years diving at depth of 50 to 75 feet. Since you are an expert on dowsing how do the rods react at this depth?...Art

Another simple Question...Since you are a shallow water diver I thought you mite know...Art

 

[Jean310]

I predict that no sceptic will ever believe any reported results of a dowsing experimenter. exanimo, siegfried schlagrule

I'd say you might very well be correct in your prediction. Now, stop and think a minute of why you could be correct.

Because, most dowsing experimenters and aficionados (at least that I've come in contact with) have clearly demonstrated they do not have the slightest clue about conducting a proper experiment. Their kitchen-chemistry and grossly flawed unmonitored processes, having little or anything to do with proper analysis techniques (and tools) leave almost zero chance for ever producing a meaningful result (or conclusion). That's not a conclusion I've arrived at with only a small amount of input data. One only needs to read but just a few threads in this particular forum, and it becomes intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

Jean

" Because, most dowsing experimenters and aficionados (at least that I've come in contact with) have clearly demonstrated they do not have the slightest clue about conducting a proper experiment. "

Experiment for what.......Manufacturing statistics....Guessing...or actual Dowsing ability?

Judy

Yes.

Jean

 

[Carl-NC]

Hello Carl, dowsing exhibitions have been all over the country and world sponsored by the american society of dowsers, the Canadian Questers and the British Society of dowsers. This has happened since at least the sixties at least annually.

I knew the ASD had an annual convention in Vermont, wasn't aware they did anything else. I'll have to keep a watch for something close to me.

I suppose if I had a tendency to let other people manipulate me I would now spend several months checking my back issues of treasure literature. If I were stupid enough to do that I predict that the response would be "Ho hum, that is not scientific."

C'mon SS, I wouldn't do that to you.

You personally have nearly as many treasure magazines as I do. Do a quick flip through them and read the printed brochures for the larger competition hunts of the sixities and seventies.

Yup, so I did a quick sample of several issues, no luck. I know that competition hunts go back to at least the late 60's, but never saw any bid ads until the 80's. Hunts for the 70's were posted on the calendar page, with little info. Anyway, if you run across this info, shoot me an email, but don't go looking for it... not that big a deal.

I seriously doubt any hunts today would prohibit dowsing. Also, for the seeded hunts I've been to, you almost don't need a metal detector, and a dowsing rod would be a real liability.

Here is what I thought Art was doing. He would have to speak for himself. I thought when he asked how many coins he should find he was attempting to pre-define the parameters of success or failure. He wanted to know going in what the sceptics and others thought was good.

No, Art has asked this same question many times, and I just don't think he understands the answer. Before long, he'll ask it all over again.

I've heard from some people that anything less than 100% is fraud.

I would strongly disagree.

I've heard others say that you must consistently beat the probable results of guessing.

Well, yes... if dowsing doesn't work better than guessing, then it's not much good, is it?

As a layman I would think that if there were ten possibilities and you tried ten times that a sceptic could be expected to guess right once. Maybe twice tops.

Or 3 times (1-in-17). Or 4 times (1-in-90). Or, less likely, more.

By running his test on non-dowsers he thus established an actual baseline versus the stated baselines.

But he didn't even need to do that. The outcome was what statistics predicted it would be. Err, if they were guessing.

When he attempts the test himself he would need to beat the 8 per 100 number that he established.

The 8-in-100 is an 8% success rate. Anyone, just by guessing, can easily exceed that in a one-off test. I have seen a couple of dowsers hit 10%, and one dowser hit 20%. These easily fall into the realm of guessing. So, no, the 8% is not a magic threshold he needs to exceed to show that he can dowse.

Here is another item that sceptics like to trot out which is pure bull. They insist that every dowsing response should lead to a viable recovery of a valuable target because that's what their metal detector does.

I don't think so. But dowsing should produce at least some staggering results. I mean some really major discoveries. But it doesn't ever seem to do that. If you look at metal detector finds, you will see some staggering results. Just visit the British Museum, and look at the footnotes on all those silver & gold hoards on display.

- Carl

 

[Carl-NC]

First quote infers that Dell is a scam, fraud and uses deception by being the manufacturer of " novelty dowsing contraptions ".

Second quote clarifies the term "novelty dowsing contraption" as an L-Rod.

Pretty plain, I'd say.
So...SWR...are you also accusing Art of fraud and deception?

Wendy's manufactures hamburgers.

I also occasionally make hamburgers. Does that make me a hamburger manufacturer?

These remarkable stretches of logic get to be real silly sometimes.

- Carl

 

[diggummup]

WOW!So this is what the dowsing forum is all about! Lefts and rights,hooks and jabs and the occasional kidney punch or head butt! What a joke!
So Arthur,the only question is- How many coins will I find? Not others that you conducted the test on.I don't see your personal test results anywhere in all this jibberish.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=JudyH link ...I have such an excellent teacher and example to follow.Judy
*************
Tally HO again gal, right on the button.

Tropical Trsmp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[SWR link=Kinda hard to step on a coin when diving, Art. Something else I can help you with?
*************

Typical evasive answer, especially when he has no idea. Normal for him. when not sure, ask a counter question, whether applicable or not is of no importance, just counter..

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=SWR ] NO...I haven't accused anyone of fraud and deception to begin with,
************
Hmm how abut your stating that I was effectively a liar on a picture of a treasure that I had found?

Me, In Cache hunting, ost # 6, & 12. You in post # 16, same thread. See quote below.

"choose not to believe Jose's story about an Indian who had been seeing some lights over the years, that some mule-train buried (reason not given) bunches of silver coins in the 1800s. I do not see one old torn-up photograph as being proof. You may, I don't."

Tropical Tramp

 

[aarthrj3811]

So Arthur,the only question is- How many coins will I find? Not others that you conducted the test on.I don't see your personal test results anywhere in all this jibberish.

It is here some place with all the other jebberish. In my personal Double Blind test I have been perfect. When I do the Double Blind test and guess my results are from 0 to 2. The two finds seem to be the right answer for me.....Art

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=beale ]Art, He told me that he found the gold coin every time that wife hid it.
******************
Quite possible and logical. It involves another allied para-normal ability known as crude telepathy. All married couples, if at all compatible, experience this at times. One will suddenly have the urge to say or do something exactly at the same moment that the other thinks of it, even if separated..

However, since science still cannot isolate and analyze it, we are conditioned to pass it off as just a co-incidence - but, this occurs far too often for a thinking person to blithefully do this.

In the case of looking for the Gold, this could be the logical, but not the only correct answer.

Since dowsing ability is such a delicate thing, many other things can influence it's results, including a failure in front of friends, inducing a conditioned reflex which because of the doubt that it creates, can effectivy block any further positive actions or successes. This also happens in many of the tests. Unfortunately we have a fringe group that may have had a successful dowsing session, but are not really accomplished enough yet, who mistakenly take these tests and naturally fail ,thus clouding the entire subject.

Tropcal Tramp

 

[ClonedSIM]

So Arthur,the only question is- How many coins will I find? Not others that you conducted the test on.I don't see your personal test results anywhere in all this jibberish.

It is here some place with all the other jebberish. In my personal Double Blind test I have been perfect. When I do the Double Blind test and guess my results are from 0 to 2. The two finds seem to be the right answer for me.....Art

Ummm...what?
How was your double blind conducted, Art? And 0 to 2? Is that out of 10 possibilities? 20, maybe? So are you saying you guess correctly 20% of the time?

Also, I had trouble finding your own personal test results myself. Could you re-post them?