ID needed...Effigy

[bocephus99]

Friend of mine has a piece found in Southern Illinois. Any thoughts or comments would be apprecieated. Thanks in advance.

 

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[Mark Todd]

Just my thoughts, picture #6 looks like the material is fired clay with marine shell, if so I'd guess "bird or duck" effigy handle from a pot, probably one of two or three, perhaps four handles that could be corded for carrying purposes. Neat find. Several pots in my county ( FULTON,IL) have been found with a duck head and neck effigy on one handle and the tail on the other. HH!

 

[Americus]

That's a nice find. Thanks for sharing.

 

[rock]

Every time I see the word effigy I think cant wait to see the rock.

 

[bocephus99]

Thanks Rock, so what's your thoughts on the piece?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Sorry Boceohus99, but that is just a naturally formed concretion. Not an artifact and not an Effigy. Very common find actually. Google them and you can see others just like it I'm sure.

 

[Charl]

This is likely what folks had in mind when thinking of duck effigy pottery.....

 

[Charl]

Here is a ceramic effigy head from an old eBay auction. The description is gone, could only grab the photo, but it indicated ceramic. If so, the original poster's object is certainly similar, and I don't believe it's that common a shape for a concretion, yet the second photo in this thread makes it look odd for a handle. Ya got me......

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Charl, the difference is your picture is of a Pottery example and the one above is stone. Look at the hole. The one Bocephus posted has an eroded hole and not a drilled one. It is a Concretion and natural.

 

[Charl]

I did manage to find the auction with that piece. It looks identical. Are we absolutely certain the object in this thread is not tempered pottery??

Weaver Collection Effigy Pottery Duck Head Authentic Indian Arrowhead | eBay

The pottery head from the auction. If it is pottery, can we be certain the piece here is not pottery? Mark Todd mentioned it looked shell tempered. Look how similar these two objects are. Again, this is the one from the auction. Compare to the one in this thread. Also, they would not have drilled the hole in the pottery. The hole was fashioned when it was soft clay, not after the pottery was fired. These two objects just look way too identical for this to be a coincidence, IMHO. I decided to run this search because my memory tells me I have seen duck effigy vessels with heads just like the one in this thread. But, so far I cannot find an intact example of a vessel. But I found this one head......

 

[Charl]

Side by each, as it were.......
If not for color, almost looks like the same piece even? I can match up a few areas on both pieces. But maybe I'm seeing things in that respect?

Actually, the closer I look, this is the same piece. Look at the two dots in the same place beneath the big hole, the red streak matches, etc. So, I presume it is made of pottery, or at least it was described that way in the auction. Did not realize this when I found it during the google image search, and don't intend to embarrass the original poster. But the auction did have some info, assuming everything is on the up and up. If I can find an intact vessel, of course I'll post it here.

 

[Charl]

Same piece. Pottery or rock? Can't be both. I'll go with pottery(enlarge first 2 photos here to max) and assume it's genuine as described in the auction, but I don't collect 'em:-) But, if that's what it is, then Mark Todd nailed it......

 

[Charl]

Charl, the difference is your picture is of a Pottery example and the one above is stone. Look at the hole. The one Bocephus posted has an eroded hole and not a drilled one. It is a Concretion and natural.

Look again, Steve. They're the exact same piece:-)

 

[Mark Todd]

Yep, those are all pictures of the "same" piece for sure, after identifying 20 identical peculiarities I felt a little silly going any further. Picture #17 of
the "bill and head crown" that you found on eBay "charl" sure would have been helpful in the original post. Notice how flat the piece looks in the indoor pics. compared to outdoor ones.
This comparison is a good example of the benefits of good lighting and taking shots at pertinent angles.

 

[unclemac]

so..tell us about this "friend" of yours that set you up like this with us....

 

[Charl]

Sometimes when someone wants opinions they won't reveal what opinions have already been offered, so as not to influence anyone. Perhaps that's what happened here. Nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, it helps just to know what the article in question is made of. The original photos can look like stone, although I thought ceramic. The auction photos were much better. I think you can tell it's pottery much easier. It was odd. Only after initially posting several photos, did I slowly realize the two pieces were one and the same......

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The two pieces are the same, no doubt...

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Charl, you were right and I stand corrected. I zoomed in on those first photos and did not look like Pottery to me. It looked more like stone.

 

[scotto]

Maybe his friend "found it" on ebay.

Somebody is telling some tall tales.

 

[Charl]

I debated whether to mention anything when I realized the two pieces were one and the same. I did not conduct a search for the purpose of embarrassing the poster. But, I decided somebody was bound to notice the fact they were the same piece, and since the photos were already up, I let the cat out of the bag. After all, it let is know with certainty that the object was ceramic, not stone. Remember, the poster never said it was a personal find of his friend. If a guy is looking for "cold" opinions, then just show the object and ask for opinions. Mentioning what you've already been told it is is a form of "leading the witness", or it can be. Don't provide any clues and see what opinions are generated.

It's even possible that it was sold to somebody after the April eBay auction. In which case, my discovery may even be a revelation to the poster himself.

In any event, if it's me I probably mention it's a purchase and that I have an ID for it, but would prefer not to say, so opinions are not influenced at all. But, doing it this way does not mean we start to feel that the poster was pulling a fast one, somehow. On the other hand, if the poster never shows up in the thread again, well, all I can say is I did not set out to embarrass the poster. Still, we would not be going here at all if the poster had said he has an idea what it is, but would rather not say. Otherwise, it's inevitable that some will not think well of the poster for going about it this way.