"IF" you could change the laws....

[bigscoop]

"IF" you could change the laws....

.......and gain back some of your detecting rights, would you take part in the pursuit of that change?

I know in the past I've been asked to take part in similar failed pursuits so many times I'd come to believe that change wasn't even possible anymore. However, in recnet months a few events have taken place in Florida that have actually left the door open to change. It's a rare situation/opportunity where the powers-to-be are "wanting" to listen to "new" input for the benifit of "all" concerned parties. Changes have to be made and they know this, the burden of the current system has left it in a state of extreme cost and dysfunction and now changes, even radical changes, are openly being explored and investigated. "Our community" does have representing voices at the forefront of these discussions and they are now actively trying to "get your input" so that they might better represent your interest while these possible changes are being discussed. I strongly urge each and everyone of you to take an active part as the changes that could possibly take place here could eventually find their way into your state as well. I have reason to believe that these discussions could lead to a radically new concept so you really need to take part and to stay in tune with these discussions over the next several weeks. I assure you, it's in your best interest to do so. The powers-to-be are finally listening and they're very open to discussing change. This is a very rare opportunity indeed, not just for Florida, but perhaps even beyond.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,456572.0.html

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

scoop, the only thing I would caution with continuing posts like this (ie.: sounding alarms, pre-empting future things, etc....) is that we don't want bring about this following knee-jerk psychological reaction: People read such things, and it plants a seed in their brain "oh no, laws are against us" and "oh no, we need to join in solidarity and get more access" etc.... And sure, it all sounds noble. Who would want to run afoul of laws, afterall?

But I can tell you, as a past president of a club, where the psychology perpetuated and rehearsed over and over amongst our ranks, can end up having a "self-fulfilling" psychological reaction, instead. Because the more people/newbies are made to "be aware" of such fears, then logically, the more they rush off and ask questions, seek clarifications, and end up being a bid-red "x" at places where ........ perhaps it wasn't an issue before. Ie.: they end up getting attention drawn to themselves and this hobby. They thought they were being safe, and pre-empting, but end up getting "no's" merely because they asked (at places where it was never an issue prior to that).

So I would just add that posts like yours are ONLY at places where there is REALLY a rule or law specifically applying (not something morphed, or un-likely to apply, as long as you weren't/aren't a nuisance). Ie.: this is not a call to newbies to run down to city hall, police stations, etc... If they are worried that there might be a rule, they should/can look it up for themselves, NOT ask some bored desk clerk, or writing letters to state capitol, etc.... If there is no rules/laws, then no need to go asking.

 

[Sandman]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

Tom is right of course. Many are in the hobby for what fun they have and think of it as a profit when they find a coin as a minute ago they didn't have one. The http://www.fmdac.org/parks/parks.htm started out as a group of detectorist to promote the hobby but only a few would donate their time and efforts to this end.

I am a lifetime member of the NRA to protect the Second Amendment to the Constitution and with all the people that own firearms, most think they should leave the work and donating to the other guy while our rights go down the drain. Metal detectorist will be pissed off when their areas are closed to detecting but will not write letters or organize to stop legislation before the fact. Let the other guy do it. They'll ask if it is OK to detect the park and be surprised when they are told NO.

 

[bigscoop]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

Tom, Sandman,

Trust me, I understand full well what both of you are saying. However, I really do think this time it may be a lot different then what we're use to encountering. All I'm asking is that you keep an eye on the above link, check in from time to time to see if anything new has come to the forefront, and if and when it does, that you take the time to participate. This is not my first rodeo, sort of speak, and I certainly would not have jumped on board if I thought this was simply going to traverse the same old rhetoric and follow the same old path. So all I'm asking is that you keep an open eye and an open mind on the discussion that's been started and that you follow it for a while to see where it all goes.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

Here's a real-life example of when and why it's NOT a good idea to pre-empt, go asking clarifications, etc...:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,249049.0.html

 

[bigscoop]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

"pre-empt"..."asking for clarifications"......? Not sure where you're getting that notion from? This has "nothing to do with asking permission or asking for clarification, etc." This has to do with, "if you could change the current laws and gain back some of your detecting rights, would you take part in that pursuit?" What is being asked of you in the thread at the attached link is what you would like to see changed, and how you think those changes might be best administered. These questions are being asked of you for a reason, they are not being asked just for the sake of conversation.

 

[ScubaFinder]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

For those who aren't aware, we just had the state archaeologists in Florida try to sneak some dirty legislation by us by tacking onto the end of a transportation appropriations bill. The Florida detecting community got wind of it, and we shut it down by banding together. The extraneous detecting laws were removed from the appropriations bill, and the laws stayed the same as they were before. Many (Tom in CA Included) thought we were just being overly worried, but that was definitely NOT the case. NOW the governor and a few others much higher up than the state archaeologists are asking questions about what has been happening. When we explained the shipwreck leasing problems we were having, they got really interested, and called us into a conference call with the senator who wrote the bill (at the urging of archaeologists) and the Gov. himself. They are interested in a WHOLE NEW set of rules that better suits our needs (both shipwreck salvors and metal detectorists). We have an opportunity to maybe do something huge, at least in Florida. Based on the feedback from BigScoops original post, I'm guessing the rest of the detecting community has little interest in this. We plan to issue licenses for detectors, much like a fishing license. A small cost, but once licensed you could hunt state parks and anything not designated an archaeological preserve or historic monument. We're just in the early stages of planning and were hoping for some constructive criticism as well as positive input.

 

[bigscoop]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

For those who aren't aware, we just had the state archaeologists in Florida try to sneak some dirty legislation by us by tacking onto the end of a transportation appropriations bill. The Florida detecting community got wind of it, and we shut it down by banding together. The extraneous detecting laws were removed from the appropriations bill, and the laws stayed the same as they were before. Many (Tom in CA Included) thought we were just being overly worried, but that was definitely NOT the case. NOW the governor and a few others much higher up than the state archaeologists are asking questions about what has been happening. When we explained the shipwreck leasing problems we were having, they got really interested, and called us into a conference call with the senator who wrote the bill (at the urging of archaeologists) and the Gov. himself. They are interested in a WHOLE NEW set of rules that better suits our needs (both shipwreck salvors and metal detectorists). We have an opportunity to maybe do something huge, at least in Florida. Based on the feedback from BigScoops original post, I'm guessing the rest of the detecting community has little interest in this. We plan to issue licenses for detectors, much like a fishing license. A small cost, but once licensed you could hunt state parks and anything not designated an archaeological preserve or historic monument. We're just in the early stages of planning and were hoping for some constructive criticism as well as positive input.

And if I could just add.....these discussions are basically in their infancy, which is why it's important that the treasure hunting & metal detecting communities voice their ideas and thoughts because all options are wanting to be heard and investigated. Also, the fee that was mentioned "is not" a means of costing you more, or a means of causing you any type of grief. The small fee is actually a very positive thing for all concerned. As was stated, the right people are now aware of the existing problems and they are listening with open minds and a great deal of interest in what the treasure hunting & metal detecting communities have to say. The door is finally open so why shut it without ever entering the room?

 

[diggummup]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

For those who aren't aware, we just had the state archaeologists in Florida try to sneak some dirty legislation by us by tacking onto the end of a transportation appropriations bill. The Florida detecting community got wind of it, and we shut it down by banding together. The extraneous detecting laws were removed from the appropriations bill, and the laws stayed the same as they were before. Many (Tom in CA Included) thought we were just being overly worried, but that was definitely NOT the case. NOW the governor and a few others much higher up than the state archaeologists are asking questions about what has been happening. When we explained the shipwreck leasing problems we were having, they got really interested, and called us into a conference call with the senator who wrote the bill (at the urging of archaeologists) and the Gov. himself. They are interested in a WHOLE NEW set of rules that better suits our needs (both shipwreck salvors and metal detectorists). We have an opportunity to maybe do something huge, at least in Florida. Based on the feedback from BigScoops original post, I'm guessing the rest of the detecting community has little interest in this. We plan to issue licenses for detectors, much like a fishing license. A small cost, but once licensed you could hunt state parks and anything not designated an archaeological preserve or historic monument. We're just in the early stages of planning and were hoping for some constructive criticism as well as positive input.

Sounds great, i'd be all for paying a licensing fee to hunt state parks and other areas now deemed off limits. It makes sense, it'd be a win win for both sides.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

Scoop: you cite my text:

"pre-empt"..."asking for clarifications"......? "

You're right, your initial post was not asking for people to run and do these things. Sorry for not clarifying my concern better. I was pointing out that whenever posts about laws, rules, permits, scares, etc... get posted, this (the skittish folk running to get sanctioned and grovel, etc...) is an often un-desired side-effect, that occurs. But yes, you're right, you were not suggesting they do that. I was just pointing out that this sometimes becomes the un-intended side effect.

Scuba-finder, you will recall, after much conversation on the shipwreck forum over wording/semantics of that bill, that I came on record as agreeing that the wording did indeed seem to loop us in (after initially saying it didn't). So I did, for the record, recant on that

 

[bigscoop]

Re: "IF" you could change the laws....

Hey, it's all good. Just want to express that this is the most genuine effort I have ever encountered and the fact that the door is already open and the right people are listening and requesting ideas certainly makes it a truly rare opportunity that I don't think the treasure hunting & metal detecting communities can afford to pass up. If they don't hear our voice and concerns and ideas now, then who's voice and ideas is this leaving them to hear?