Indian waybill to Swift Mines (Revisited)

[UpTheCreek]

Hey All,

I am looking for a metal detector. Any advice or ideas on a good beginners detector would be appreciated.
Or, if anyone has one they want to sell let me know.
Thanks.KW

 

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[boomer]

walmart has this, but you have to order it, ether on line or at the store. simple to use. i always use one in all metal mode, more depth that way. it picked up an iron sewer pipe at 4 feet, but it all depends on the type soil your working in. more iron less penetration. plus you get a free pinpointer. pinpointer is good to have for checking rock samples in caves and rockhouses.
i think its $180.00 for both.

Bounty Hunter Lone Star Hobby Metal Detector with Free Pinpointer,

 

[Curtis]

Hi boomer,

Yes this is the same information I had but was not able to find the bridge...I think Swingles branch may have been near Carter Caves but not sure. Will have to try to get to the county engineers or library to find information..maybe oldest post office would know. Notice the description.... that the bridge, waterfall and Indian stairsteps...hmmm this is what has me so set on the Swift mines being very near the grayson/carter county area....and it is west from the forks of the Big Sandy...even a "considerable distance" of 58 miles. The Indian trace from Kenny (at the Ohio) also went right to a spot very close to Carter and probably past the Cave area...haven't found anything that shows that for sure yet--my speculation as its too close not to work for Swift/Mundays IndianTrace. So if the trace went past carter caves area, and there is a Natural rock bridge (that has fallen?) Indian Stair steps, and a waterfall, well its just too much of the right landmarks in the same area to be coincidence. If I lived near the area I would have already located the natural bridge (collapsed or not)...to me that is the key--finding the natural bridge mentioned in the book..if i remember right the book was printed in 1928 so the bridge was there then...but I had read somewhere that some guy said it had collapsed....can't find that reference now. So if Swindles is the right Cane Creek (there are two creeks named the same less tan 30 miles apart) then I 'll be searching further down stream..already checked out the four natural bridges in Carter Caves Park...they seem to short to be the one in the book you posted on, and I did not see the Indian stair steps. Now when we consider that there were counterfeiters in that area (even in the caves) and that silver bars have been found...and its not too far form where LeKane hid his stash...its too many thing to be just chance. Then as you mentioned about the mines on Kenny this is either a rich silver area or several people used the same mines...but did anyone find the Swift main mine and Cache?

 

[boomer]

This is interesting in this book, Originally published in 1848 by Lewis Collins, history of Kentucky Vol. 2. It tells the story of a Natural Bridge on the right fork of Caney Creek, known as Little Caney and before that as Swingles Branch and that it goes into the Little Sandy river. Tells of a stairway or steps near the bridge that you can use to go down to the floor at the creek, also tells of two other smaller bridges in the neighborhood. Next it tells of cascades or water fall 100 feet below the Natural Bridge and another 2 miles away. Tells of two sinking creeks, Big Sinkey and Little Sinkey. all three flow into the little sandy at Grayson Lake.
If one could find the Artesian Well. I Think the Indians would look at it in a holy way and with the explorer's they would both leave there mark or carvings and something buried, you never know? The problem?? It tells of the caves in the neighborhood. Now it talks about Carter Caves? Collins is so precise in the location of the Natural Bridge. Could it be that there are two sets of arches?
Just a note here. In front of bat cave in the dry creek bed i found burnt rock, reheated it and a few drops of silver came out.
Anyway, below is the Carter County story.

 

[boomer]

This is an add on to the Natural Bridge story above. Sometimes things click. We have this from a newspaper from Greenup, Ky.
Telling of a petrified arm and then we have the story of Simon Kenton making salt on Tygert Creek. Then the Indians making arrow heads And SEVERAL CAVES near the kenton salt works and the Indians loved there salt. It could be that all three stories
are of the same location for where the gold nuggets were found. Now the arm, if it was in one of those salt caves, the salt would cure or has they say petrified the arm. I'm guessing? if you know where the salt works are then one could find that cave. No telling what else is around there.

11/1/1932
Greenup: Enthusiasm for a treasure hunt stirred this town today following the discovery in a cave of 12 nuggets which apparently are gold. The cave discovered by two boys, John and Troy Holbrook also contained Indian relics and a petrified human arm.
the cave is in an obscure place 18 miles south west of here near the Carter County line. The nuggets have withstood acid tests for gold.

Kenton Salt Well
The Kenton Salt Well is situated in the bed of Tygert creek, on the farm of Mr. Jacobs, so named "because Simon Kenton manufactured salt here on the first settlement of the country." There were other salt works a short distance southeast of Grayson.

Quarry of Indian Arrow Heads
On the east side of the Tygert creek, about a quarter of a mile from the Kenton Salt Well, are several caves which are formed in a local bed of coarse grindstone grit. The bedding faces of this rock in some places are thickly studded with angular fragments of horn-stone or flint. Extensive diggings are observed in this neighborhood only about 6 or 7 feet deep, and often extending over half an acre or more of ground. Professor Sidney S. Lyon, of the Kentucky Geological Survey, was satisfied that "these diggings were made by the aborigines of the country for the purpose of procuring the material from which they made their arrow-heads."

 

[Curtis]

boomer, its always good to see your posts...you can find the greatest stuff! This is very encouraging...I am almost certain Swingles branch is the creek that comes down the edge of Carter Caves park(you go over it if you come from Carter). I think it enters into Tygarts right there close by. I like the gold stories, it makes sense, lots of people overlook that Swift also mined gold. LeKane did too. So that area is seeming to match up more and more...just wish I could pin point the natural rock bridge...if it has fallen down it might just be a pile of rocks across a small hollow.

 

[boomer]

Owingsville, Ky. September 25, 1889.
Silver Mine found
An old silver mine has been found in Carter County Ky.
The specimens of ore seem to be of silver with some trace
gold. The location has been confirmed has John's Run
or John's creek in that county. The pirate John Swift
supposedly smelted silver on our near this creek.

 

[-Ki-]

Boomer, you never cease to amaze us with your remarkable research. I agree with Curtis, we always look forward to anything you post, i know you have helped me a bunch in the past with research you find and share. I'm really looking forward meeting you at our little get together.
Dose anyone know what happened to that rock bridge, or is it still standing?

Curtis, you bring up a very good thought with the way bill. The way it is wrote, seems like a white person has used the information the Indians recorded, and added their information, then wrote it out so it could be understood from a non Indian perspective, the white men could never understand the ways of the Indian, so you idea about the way bill makes perfect sense to me. Sounds like you guys are on to something good in that area, keep up the good work. Wish you guys the best!
HH -Ki-

 

[The_Frontiersman]

It is to be noted that Joseph Brandt was schooled in the white man's ways even all the way up to a university level.. So it is possible that Brandt was educated well enough to read and write identical to any of the white man standards of the day.. I know that there is no proof of him returning to the Shawnee towns, but I do know that many a huntin foray into the Canelands of Kentucky was not uncommon even for even a Mohawk Indian, such as Brandt, from New York.. But I'm like Curtis and he probably has nothing to do with this waybill at all.. Anyways, just a thought....

Casey

 

[EC.Mason]

Sorry I havnt messaged in awhile Curtis. I have never heard that story. The only story I have heard about pertaining to any silver or molds being found on Caney, is when Matthew Sellars found some coins on the bank of the Little Sandy. I have heard that he found them near the line of rocks, and I heard that he found them in another part of the Little Sandy River in Carter County.

Boomer,
I wonder how close we are to the place where the coin molds fell out of the rocks when the lightning hit. The site of the coin molds may help a lot (I posted on another thread that a friend found some molds back in the 1970s but they were on a ledge near the line of rocks). They were tested at the UK and they were w covered with bear tallow and rapped in bearskin. This other set may be a very handy clue to start some locations from!
Mason, does anyone you know remember the discovery? Boomer posted a story about Swift or maybe a different Swift but in it the writer tells of the coin molds falling out of the cliff on the Little Sandy. He also mentions how that Swift may have traveled from the fork of the Big Sandy to the Little Sandy! This is what we (Boomer and I and others) have been looking into for over a 25 years—Boomer a lot longer. I will say once again I feel the Indian mines and Swifts are connected in that area! The Indian mentions 4 kegs of silver …so does swift. They both gave direction on travel form the Big Kanawha. They both had more than one mine(the five Indian mines are all within a 2 mile radius I have located all of them but one and thanks to boomer and Mason will locate the last one this spring/summer). The Indian tells of a lot of signs right around the line of rocks…the one rock house looks like it could have been a smelter but torn down. Boomer indicates there are things the rock map indicates.

 

[Curtis]

E.C. Good to hear from you again..I only have the info Henson wrote that the coins were Spanish and there were 13 of them? Found something that it was a National Historical site but the building burnt down and then the land was sold...still don't know where it was, they were found on his property near Newfoundland...tried to spend the time in the CH at Sandy hook to find his property but ran out of time....anyone have an idea of where the properly of Mathew Bacon Sellers was?

 

[boomer]

this was an old family site, sellers land was named blackmore. its located next to big sinking creek. now, in some of the stories, sellers land was known as cranes nest, at or near the mouth of caney creek. he may have owned land there, but i can find no record of it. the story goes that he found the 4 powder kegs of coins at the line of rocks and built a brick house. problem? he was already wealthy and an aeronautical engineer with a degree from harvard. i can't see him treasure hunting, unless someone else found the location and asked for help in searching or helping with the recovery. one we never hear of is his son, same name. who knows, maybe he found it and dad helped?? we will never know the real story.
his home was located two miles due south of Grahn on State Route 1644 and 1400 feet southeast on a private dirt road.

 

[boomer]

below are some pictures of things that have to do with the little sandy story. has for sellers finding the coins behind the rock and the locations of money molds. we need some proof. we know the story of the indian mine is fact and the carvings on the large slanted rock next to the river are there. money molds: this is from memory ( the molds looked like they fell from above, seems like part of the ledge broke off. ) i can't remember if it was in one of hensons books are not. he had several books, i keep leaning to one of his books. also i keep thinking about smoky valley west of carter caves. the money molds, cinders, furnace and the silver bars and don't forget the indian that made a solid silver peace pipe/tomahawk. this was found there and was on display at grayson.
has for the 2 color photos, i never checked the locations out. the story i got was that several carvings are around the turtle heads and at low pool you can see the rest of the furnace. has for the cave opening, during the civil war skeletons were found and a pile of ore with mining tools. check the indian/crane drawing against the photos. there is part of an old furnace at the line of rocks. but it may be an old iron furnace. one more thing, all this area was dry land and the little sandy was just about 10 to 20 feet wide at the line of rock. i guess 1, 2 maybe 3 feet deep.

 

[Curtis]

Boomer,

The skeletons and ore thing is new to me...what was the story?

Also, can you pinpoint the crane itself on one of the aerial views?

I am just about healed up and next week or two will see me out there again.

Thanks once again Boomer, Looking forward to the get together!

 

[boomer]

The skeletons and ore were found by a man named hobbs. i was given this photo and told that i could find the place. it stands out like a sore thumb. go up river past bruin creek about a mile and you will see the opening. he said it was vary odd, he said he never saw an opening like that before. square?
below at bottom is the location of the rock and cliff face. you can just see the rock. but its off a little. the rock has the snake on it and just to the left on the cliff is the indian and crane and that + carved halfway up the cliff.
Little sandy River:
i found some odd things looking around the maps and its interesting that some of the things on swifts map match the little sandy river. 1. look at the bell, than look at the bell on swifts map. on top of the bell its round and has a stem. the photo of the bell has the same thing. but, i wonder if there could be a cave sealed up there and its just across the hill from the line of rock. or something hidden on the bell itself. 2. this really stood out, look at the part of swifts map that shows this. a section of the river that has an X to one side. in the photo notice the hill to one side and what maybe large rocks on top. same turns in river/creek. swift would have called little sandy a creek. the 2 drains match. if this a swift location, what would be on top of that hill or around the base??

 

[Curtis]

Boomer you are tearing me up! This is great stuff once again! You are the most helpful person! I am so anxious to get back out there it isn't funny! You and the information you have provided are going to prove my theory that the Swift mines and the Indian mines are at least related even if they are not the same ones.

 

[boomer]

One of the hand carvings i never figured out. it was just a partial hand carving vary faded with a cross on it. i came across this today and its identical to the carving and the cross matches the hill in this photo. i can just see those guys standing on top of that hill and saying, hmmm john, look the creek makes the form of a hand, yea! it does, we need to copy this, of course today we just pull out are gps locator. this is just north of sandy hook and on the old buffalo trail that a lot of route 7 is built on.

 

[Curtis]

Hi Boomer, Is the area I am painting in red the thumb of the hand? Wasn't sure.

I am sure you know the area not far from the line of rocks that is the gap with a lid on it...inside the gap on the north wall is a cross too! Seems like they mean something along that creek/river! Wonder what...You mentioned the one above the Crane carving and the one near Sandy Hook, then there is the one i just mentioned and it seems like you mentoned another one not far form the line of rocks north(but not as far as the Crane Carving). This maybe another clue we need to decipher.

 

[EC.Mason]

Wow this is some great information. I would love to visit the cave where the skeletons were found. You say it is close to the carving of the indian and crane? Boomer, you and Curtis have more information about the Little Sandy treasure then anyone I have ever met; and I live here in Sandy Hook! Every time one of you posts I get excited and want to leave work and head down Caney!

 

[EC.Mason]

below are some pictures of things that have to do with the little sandy story. has for sellers finding the coins behind the rock and the locations of money molds. we need some proof. we know the story of the indian mine is fact and the carvings on the large slanted rock next to the river are there. money Boomer do you have any more information about the skeletons being found during the Civil War? Where they supposenly white man or indian skeletons? molds: this is from memory ( the molds looked like they fell from above, seems like part of the ledge broke off. ) i can't remember if it was in one of hensons books are not. he had several books, i keep leaning to one of his books. also i keep thinking about smoky valley west of carter caves. the money molds, cinders, furnace and the silver bars and don't forget the indian that made a solid silver peace pipe/tomahawk. this was found there and was on display at grayson.
has for the 2 color photos, i never checked the locations out. the story i got was that several carvings are around the turtle heads and at low pool you can see the rest of the furnace. has for the cave opening, during the civil war skeletons were found and a pile of ore with mining tools. check the indian/crane drawing against the photos. there is part of an old furnace at the line of rocks. but it may be an old iron furnace. one more thing, all this area was dry land and the little sandy was just about 10 to 20 feet wide at the line of rock. i guess 1, 2 maybe 3 feet deep.