King George III with strange markings

[vpone]

Hey guys,

I found a beautiful KGIII that has a "U M" on the cheek of the bust - it is not counter stamped it looks like it was part of the die. The coin detail is amazing (the scan does not do it justice) Only problem is the date area is the worst part of the coin - any help id'ing this coin is appreciated.

vp

edit: looks like there might be another letter before the "UM" - maybe an I ?

 

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[Woodland Detectors]

Oooh. You may be right. It most certainly blends in with the coin making it an error. Let's see what the coin experts say. HHHH

 

[johnnyi]

Vpone, this has all the characteristics of a fantastic find!!! The British guys can probably identify or eliminate token counterstamps for you, but I have doubts that this is a token counterstamp. I haven't eliminatd all the U.S. possibilities yet, as the first letter is unreadable and you have to go one by one matching all the last letters. It may say "Unum", it which case it could be a political slogan of some kind. Very exciting!

 

[Don in SJ]

Dang you, I wanted an easy evening of no research, I love that copper. I have looked a bit and of course it has to be counterfeit, odds against regal, but the ribbons tell me it is not one of the 3 major known Obverses of a regal KGIII.

So, then I started looking at Machins Mills coppers and since I think I see an 8 there, I concentrated on 1778, since what I think is an 8 would be last digit, but could be wrong. No luck there, so for now, PUNT. Will look more, but hope IP or others chime in.

Yes looks like 1UM but maybe ?NUM

Whatever, a super KGIII for sure, I would be thrilled to get one marked like that.

Don

 

[pjroo33]

Hmmmm... That is a sweet looking KG!!!! I'm very interested in seeing what others have to say about this coin. LOVE IT!!!!
I keep think E pluribus unum, but it's too early for that. Didn't appear on a coin until 1786. No clue.

 

[shaun7]

Hmmmm... That is a sweet looking KG!!!! I'm very interested in seeing what others have to say about this coin. LOVE IT!!!!

Me too

 

[vpone]

hey thanks everyone ... i figure i'd see if i could get some more info on it and then post the days finds in the main forum
we got 6 coins from this spot and the latest one was this one - def a dream day



don : ha, have you ever punted before ? that makes me feel good that it's not a common one, thanks for the effort, i appreciate you jumping in

johnnyi : "Unum" makes sense to me - but i guess we'll see

getting a little excited here ... like i said the scan doesn't do it justice at all

vp

 

[johnnyi]

"Hmmmm... That is a sweet looking KG!!!! I'm very interested in seeing what others have to say about this coin. LOVE IT!!!!
I keep think E pluribus unum, but it's too early for that. Didn't appear on a coin until 1786. No clue."

I guess if it is "unum" it's inconspicuous"code", as that seems to be all that is written there. The date isn't a problem, as the whole motto was introduced well before the date of this coin, being introduced in the first session of the Continental Congress.

 

[Don in SJ]

OK, one of my friends is helping on this one and it is looking like a NJ copper was partially struck on this counterfeit KGIII, which I still think is a Machins Mills one, and hoping to get that settled yet tonight. You are seeing the partial word of UNUM from a NJ copper, the size and style of the letters seem to be right to me. So HOLD ON to that one, it might, might, hold special interest in the colonial collecting world, I just do not know at this time......

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

A really cool find, it is a NJ (reverse side) copper struck over/under? a counterfeit KGIII copper, which I still have not determined which variety Machins if it is.......

My friend noted this: If you look below the Unum in the middle of Georges neck you will see the lines of the shield horizontally across most of the coin. the point of the shield is facing the same directon as Georges face (to the right). It is plainly visible except the shield is sideways.....

So, here is a rotated negative shot of you coin.

 

[vpone]

OK, one of my friends is helping on this one and it is looking like a NJ copper was partially struck on this counterfeit KGIII, which I still think is a Machins Mills one, and hoping to get that settled yet tonight. You are seeing the partial word of UNUM from a NJ copper, the size and style of the letters seem to be right to me. So HOLD ON to that one, it might, might, hold special interest in the colonial collecting world, I just do not know at this time......

Don

very cool ! anxiously awaiting your thoughts ...

vp

 

[vpone]

A really cool find, it is a NJ (reverse side) copper struck over (I think, not under) a counterfeit KGIII copper, which I still have not determined which variety Machins if it is.......

My friend noted this: If you look below the Unum in the middle of Georges neck you will see the lines of the shield horizontally across most of the coin. the point of the shield is facing the same directon as Georges face (to the right). It is plainly visible except the shield is sideways.....

So, here is a rotated negative shot of you coin.

that makes perfect sense now - i saw those lines below the neck and just figured mine had more detail than the ones i was comparing it to, but it makes perfect sense now that you pointed that out ...

so, is this a common thing or could i consider this a "special" coin ?

vp

 

[johnnyi]

Ha! Don, it looks like you've got another Jersey penny for your census!

 

[Don in SJ]

I am fairly certain "SPECIAL" . I am awaiting some word from two of the top NJ knowledgeable people I know to reply, they must be out for a good Saturday night meal. LOL. Suspense, but I am sure you will be getting an answer, if you have my email yet shoot me one or a PM, they may want to contact you, I no longer have your email thanks to a puter crash.....

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

Ha! Don, it looks like you've got another Jersey penny for your census!

I was just thinking I JUST closed out the numbers for my first article and spent 5 hours yesterday writing and starting distribution maps and now I think I need to revise, since this will be one of the special mention coins on the survey, along with your counterstamped one and a Condition Census variety found by my friend who I am in contact with right now over this neat copper.............

So, one more for the survey, you bet!

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

OK, think you should change your title if you post in Today's Finds, it is a Machins Mills 17-87B variety, struck over a defective NJ Reverse side planchet. ( Will 100% verify when I hear from others)

Have not heard back yet from my other two friends, but fairly certain now it is what has been said. Will update when I hear more.

Maybe tonight or tomorrow, but ole Don is going to try beach hunting in the AM, this storm did so much erosion, I just have to get down there and see what shows up............



http://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/machins_mills/1787_vlack_17_87B.htm

Don

 

[Iron Patch]

OK, think you should change your title if you post in Today's Finds, it is a Machins Mills 17-87B variety, struck over a defective NJ Reverse side planchet. ( Will 100% verify when I hear from others)

Have not heard back yet from my other two friends, but fairly certain now it is what has been said. Will update when I hear more.

Maybe tonight or tomorrow, but ole Don is going to try beach hunting in the AM, this storm did so much erosion, I just have to get down there and see what shows up............



http://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/machins_mills/1787_vlack_17_87B.htm

Don

Very cool! Just seen this, and knew it was ctft., and knew the letters are interesting, but if letters are from a NJ that is a GREAT find. Anytime time there is muling, or maybe as in this case some type of crossing, the rarity scale definitely increases. Not as good as a mule having a complete obverse, or reverse, but no question those letters in the center improve that coin greatly. It will be interesting to find out if there's anything on record crossing the two.


PS... If only that had been a complete NJ reverse (M. Mills - NJ mule!) $ $ $

 

[Don in SJ]

Believe it or not we are trying to narrow down the variety of the NJ reverse..... Now that would be cool..........

It has been confirmed by two of the three top collectors I am friends with, number three must still be eating.

Don

 

[Iron Patch]

Believe it or not we are trying to narrow down the variety of the NJ reverse..... Now that would be cool..........

It has been confirmed by two of the three top collectors I am friends with, number three must still be eating.

Don

Getting a conclusive variety would certainly take it to the next level. You really never know what will turn up!

 

[Iron Patch]