Legend of the Stone Maps

[azdave35]

My guess is that any display outside of museum property would involve a set of copies. That was the reason AM&M Museum/Flagg Foundation had the other set made. So they could travel or be displayed without fear of damage or theft.

Mike

that could be mike

 

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[sgtfda]

yes mike..i forgot about the FLAGG rock and gem show at mesa community college ..they usually have them on display there every year..but they are still behind glass

Dave and Mike they had one sided copies at the show this year. I took a close look

 

[sgtfda]

Oops! I'm sure I just pointed.

 

[Old]

Okay, I'm going to be kind and assume my much previous post was lost in the melee. If these are the same rock, explain to me how this line reshapes itself and moves. I'd really like to know how you reconcile that.

 

[sgtfda]

In all fairness the bumper photo was badly damaged and later retouched. I know for a fact that the damaged retouched photo distorts that line. You will need to take my word on that for now. It will be clear later.

 

[Old]

I didn't think that was the particular area where the fold damage was. Thought that area was more to the right and below. We used to have a before repair photo but that's gone. Darn shame.

But if you are telling me that's the cause I'll believe it. When you are in a position to reveal more, I'm all ears.

 

[coazon de oro]

Making all things closer to equal: take a look. Definitely NOT the same stone.

View attachment 1181573 View attachment 1181574 View attachment 1181575

Same stone

 

[releventchair]

Same stone

"Et tu, Brute?"That's it then. I must concede. Age and human hands have caused change, if pictures show true.

 

[Hal Croves]

View attachment 1181638

I can't explain it. The print is reverse of what it should be. It was a stone in their possession. Jack photographed it. You can argue until you blue in the face. No one knows where the real stones are. One reason I'm not a stoner. Too much bull. Copies passed down from place to place does not make them the originals. Any of you stoners tell me you know for a fact what you have seen or photographed are original. You can't. You don't know if Travis or Mitchell or any of the others passed on a copy.

You just did explain it. No need to go blue in the face over it. It is a photo of a stone "in their possession", not a mold of the stone. It may be a cast copy, hard to tell but it is not a mold.
A mold, a cast copy, and the original stones, three very different things really.

BTW, Jack wrote an amazing article on the DLM that is now online.
Worth reading.

 

[Hal Croves]

Okay, I'm going to be kind and assume my much previous post was lost in the melee. If these are the same rock, explain to me how this line reshapes itself and moves. I'd really like to know how you reconcile that.
View attachment 1181684

Try superimposing one onto the other with a transparency.

 

[Old]

Found it! Here's the bumper photo pre-retouch. The fold damage is not in the area I isolated. Without revealing source, can you elaborate on why the lines were reshaped/moved in the area I highlighted previously.

 

[Old]

Try superimposing one onto the other with a transparency.

I have, they don't match, not even close. I won't bore everyone with the results posted here. Its a much more revealing exercise to make the comparison yourself.

 

[sgtfda]

You just did explain it. No need to go blue in the face over it. It is a photo of a stone "in their possession", not a mold of the stone. It may be a cast copy, hard to tell but it is not a mold.
A mold, a cast copy, and the original stones, three very different things really.

BTW, Jack wrote an amazing article on the DLM that is now online.
Worth reading.

Apparently Victor you have no experience casting. The photo is the model for the mold. Same same. They had the set up for casting which was my point.

 

[cw0909]

gping through the TUMLINSON link, Hal posted in
his a heap of proof thread, i found 2 pics with
the same boarder as the stones on the bumper img
so the Q is, was this a popular boarder in the
south west in the 1940s/50s or was it a theme at
a local film developer in TX, and would that boarder
have been a choice if the film had been developed
in oregon, i think the imgs are copyright no posting
only links to


Eddie Rode TUMLINSON; Freddie Horace TUMLINSON; Thomas Bearmun TUMLINSON
Photos: Bearmun, Freddie and Eddie Tumlinson: Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page

Family: TUMLINSON/ALSOBROOK (F1406)
Photos: Tom and Lizzie Tumlinson family: Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page

fam
Family Group Sheet for James Thomas TUMLINSON/Alma Elizabeth ALSOBROOK (F1406) m. 26 Oct 1902 : Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page

stones on bumper

 

[coazon de oro]

Okay, I'm going to be kind and assume my much previous post was lost in the melee. If these are the same rock, explain to me how this line reshapes itself and moves. I'd really like to know how you reconcile that.
View attachment 1181684

Howdy Lynda,

If you look at the bumper photo, you will notice from the bumper shadow that it was taken very close to mid-day. The sun is shining from a high angle casting the shadow towards the arch at the bottom. On the other photo the light shines from a lower angle. You can see that part of the bottom of the Rio groove is lighted.

Homar

 

[Old]

Homar,

Is it your opinion they are two different photos?

 

[Hal Croves]

gping through the TUMLINSON link, Hal posted in
his a heap of proof thread, i found 2 pics with
the same boarder as the stones on the bumper img
so the Q is, was this a popular boarder in the
south west in the 1940s/50s or was it a theme at
a local film developer in TX, and would that boarder
have been a choice if the film had been developed
in oregon, i think the imgs are copyright no posting
only links to


Eddie Rode TUMLINSON; Freddie Horace TUMLINSON; Thomas Bearmun TUMLINSON
Photos: Bearmun, Freddie and Eddie Tumlinson: Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page

Family: TUMLINSON/ALSOBROOK (F1406)
Photos: Tom and Lizzie Tumlinson family: Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page

fam
Family Group Sheet for James Thomas TUMLINSON/Alma Elizabeth ALSOBROOK (F1406) m. 26 Oct 1902 : Robert and Christina Barritt's Family History Page

stones on bumper
View attachment 1182138

cw0909,
So, that photo of Bearmun (b.1919), Freddie (b.1923), and Eddie (b.1921)... what year do you think that it was taken?
I would say aroundish 1930.
The bumper photo could not be earlier than 1938/9, because of the car, but the two images use the same boarder. That can only mean that the images were taken and then years later(?) reprinted into these cabinet card like prints. Matthew Roberts has said as much.

Nice observation cw0909!

Unfortunatly, dating the cabinet card will not tell us when the original photo was taken. But, if that cabinet card pre-dates 1948 then something is wrong with the discovery story.

 

[cw0909]

yea the border looks like the Greek Key Design, was that popular in the 30/40s
http://s3-production.bobvila.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/desight-31681-greek-key-motif.jpg

 

[cw0909]

i know its hard to tell from a B/W photo, but car looks in good shape
for a 10yr old car, i didnt think the paint jobs on the cars were real
long lasting until the 60s

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

Is it your opinion they are two different photos?

Howdy Lynda,

The one's you are using to show the difference are two different photos. The bumper photo has the heart insert in place, while the other one does not.

Homar