Lets try to stay on task

[MadMarshall]

looks like $26,866 went to lawyers or other professional services, plus another $6670 to the PLP lawyer and court costs

I am somewhat confused.
So your saying that the 26,866 was spent to lawyers and professional fees.. Am I mistaken to think that this money is not part of Amra support of court cases? Paid speakers, legal representatives for AMRA and professional services for Amra..
Its not the same as Lawyers for the Rhinehart case or other cases ? Money given /donated to Rhinehart and other cases would be expressed where on the tax return? Or is that 6670 expresses the donations allocated to Rhinehart and others?
Why do you imply plp got the 6670?

AMRA spent a whole lot of time and did a wholelot of fundraising in 2015 and many of them was done under the guise of raising funds for Rhinehart.
We here at AMRA are pledging our full support to Brandon and this case and will do whatever it takes to help pay for this costly case coming up. This is it folks, this is our line in the sand and the last gasp the opposition to small miners has. We will prevail, but we are going to need to raise a bunch of money for Brandon
https://americanminingrights.com/bra...supreme-court/
Can anyone here or an AMRA representive show me the truth in that statement? that was posted Jan 2015
Here we are in 2017. AND AND well just look at the most recent WMA newsletter.
Anyway maybe someone can help me understand..

Gentlemen I did post this on other thread but removed it.. Figured best to start fresh.
Maybe we can keep the kids game on the other thread and try talk as adults.
Now I am confused on how difficult this is I suppose this should be easy and hopefully Amra and its members can conduct themselves as civilized people. And this goes for individuals who may agree with my point of view. No big deal to disagree but it is a big deal how we go about disagreeing. I am guilty as well and I will make more of an effort not to partake in the playground antics.

The fact that when one asks AMRA to account for anything and is met with so much hostility is concerning. Is this how they treat everyone who just doesn't take there word for it? How hard is it to explain their actions and show tangible results? why fight so much? Your a non profit for heavens sake!! These things are your obligation to the community. Your responsibility.. Not to just say you are doin great things but able to show the things you say..

Can anyone repost link to the Amra 2015 taxreturn? I cant get it to work..

 

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[Tuolumne]

maybe rick is interested in forming a mining district with amras help, I hear no donations needed lol. Paid shill? people MM asked nicely and you guys are attacking him for his honest inquiry? why are non amra members even answering if they have no idea about where the money goes? someone call amra or make a request on their facebook and have them come on here and give us the non-profit details that everyone wants to know, well some of you dont want to know where the money goes......

 

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[Terry Soloman]

...

I am really starting to think you are either a paid shill or you have a mental issue. You and your friends need to seek help. You are creating a mountain out of a molehill and you won't let it go. Get a hobby, like prospecting and stay away from the computer. It's bad for your mental health. I am done with this conversation and I will take Reeds advice and put you on ignore. You and your friends really are becoming irritating. No wonder he doesn't respond to you.

This is the type of crap socialists type when facts don't fit their argument. We have a "mental issue," and "need to seek help," simply because you can't answer our questions, and Shannon is hiding under a rock? Interesting.

 

[goldenmojo]

It's too bad that this discussion is not taking place around a campfire with everyone in their one week old unwashed grungy duds, dead tired from a backbreaking day of mining, eating beans and sow belly from a metal pan and making their finer points. If you think AMRA or anyone else is not protecting your interests, dont give them your money. As for taking care of my brother miner's from unscrupolous tax dodges, not my brother's keeper. Myself and others here did put cash in a hat and handed it to Brandon for his advancement of the cause. If it got to the lawyer great. If it fed his guppy at home so be it. He is the one in the long fight that will benefit all miners if it goes through and if it does I and the others will be glad to have done just a little.

 

[Reed Lukens]

Great..
So its seems MinerRick you are in a position or at least Privy to the knowledge of how much money AMRA Gave to the Case? Is that a fair statement? Why not just tell say it?
2 easy questions..
So why not put it to rest?

How much money since 2015 has AMRA given to the case!!!!!

Shannon why don't you just answer me?.. . make me a believer!!! If I am wrong I will account for it..
But quit playing these little girl games.....
Drag this out forever if you guys like but honestly I cant imagine why.. whats to hide? you think this is something AMRA would be proud to share they sure enjoyed all the donations brought in , by telling people they were supporting Brandon.. Maybe AMRA should be more careful in their words instead of saying they were helping with money probaley they should of said Moral support. I figure that's way closer to the truth....

We here at AMRA are pledging our full support to Brandon and this case and will do whatever it takes to help pay for this costly case coming up. This is it folks, this is our line in the sand and the last gasp the opposition to small miners has. We will prevail, but we are going to need to raise a bunch of money for Brandon

Why aren't you just asking Brandon how much AMRA has given him? He knows it's been many thousands. What about you Victor, how much have you given him? If you haven't put $1000+ to the cause, then why would anyone bother answering you in the first place? You can make demands on a public forum all you want, but only doing it in person will get you the answers that you will never see posted here or anywhere. I know how many thousands I have given in donations and how much cash I have handed over just to keep food on their table, but you will never see that number posted anywhere by any of the Miners who have helped support him the same as many of us have. If you want the honest answer, then go to the source. Neither Brandon, Shannon, Rick, or anyone else feels that answering you will serve a point or you would have heard an answer last year. What happened Victor? Did the State cut your food stamp allowance? Or do you provide for yourself? How much money did you make from selling the gold you found last year? How much did you pay the State and Feds in taxes from your mining adventures last year? I think that we all have a right to know if you are above board and paying your own way. Are you paying for insurance yourself, or are you bilking the system for income?
Are you willing to completely answer these questions on a public forum?
To me, it's a waste of time asking these questions in public... Go to a meeting, make plans to talk to them in person. At least take the chance and see what the answer is... To me the answer you'll get is pretty obvious...

 

[minerrick]

Hey Reed, that blocking thing works really well. Wish I had known about it before. Great post by the way.

 

[Oregon Viking]

So... How does AMRA and WMA differ from GPAA? They have the LDMA and a yearly magazine...or two. Are they exempt from the
"Where is the money going" question? You join the GPAA... you get a book! showing/allowing you to prospect their... their owned claims. nasty recreational miners huh? or is it that if you question them, they sue you for slander?

What about these guys?
Waldo Mining District ? To Preserve, Protect & Promote Mining
Raffles?
Oh my....Shame!!
Very true, passionate, god fearing, die hard, family loving, men and women. Hard working business owners... that.. OMG... sell things? Mining the miner? Mining the rancher? No way... Mining the farmer and the fisherman?
Did you hear? that hardware store sold.... hardware.... to those damn home builders!! shame on them!
F'in grocery store sold .... grocery's to ... people....that needed grocery's... show me your tax returns!!!


They can't be that different.

So I ask, are there "good" associations? Have you ever been to one of their meetings? Passion... truth.... the desire to help.. all miners. Maybe they should kick out the "recreational" miners.
Have any of you tried to talk to a politician/lawmaker? any one that even attempts that... deserves some recognition.

If all of the company's that sell mining equipment... but only sell to "recreational miners"
Are they now on your list?
Keene
Gold Hog
Pro Line
Royal
Garrett

Mining the miner... None of them make you buy their product. Some of them might support those nasty groups... that you don't seem to like.
So... don't use any of their products.... if you do you are supporting them!
See how this works?

 

[minerrick]

WMA is not a mining club in the "mining club" sense of the word- we wanted to represent the professional miner/mining claim owner- the guy who has "skin in the game". We started off as a handful of guys who - all owned mining properties/claims - but didn't know each other, and were brought together by third party and we started collaborating together to write arguments against the CA State Dredge Ban. Through our extensive research of literally months of reading and thousands of unpaid hours of research we figured out that the State of CA erred in the way they used the CEQA guidelines to run the dredgers out of the water; the State's wanton use of the CEQA had ramifications for anyone doing business in CA that can be affected via a CEQA decision. We formed a LLC and subsequently sued the State of CA and our court case is one of the cases being tried in San Bernardino. Five years ago, a small group of volunteers and myself spent a (unpaid) year and a half to cold call 15,000 claim owners, representing 55,000 mining claims in CA to try to organize them, with limited success. We have a member citizen miner lobbyiest who has spent hundreds of unpaid hours walking the halls of Sacramento meeting and talking representatives from both sides of the isles and he is on a first name basis with a lot of the power players at the Capitol. We go to industry group meetings and we talk with leaders in similar groups with similar issues. A couple of months ago, we travelled to and spent 3 whirlwind days in Washington DC to talk to our newly elected representatives about our plight in CA. We reached out to Pacific Legal Foundation to help with Brandon's case and we collaborate with other major legal firms. In order to save money, we research and write our own legal briefs. Our "members" receive mining claim reports and a few other minor perks. We don't have club claims, club meetings or anything like that. We do have a website where we sell stuff and we get a small percentage e-commerce kickback. We do research, writing and lobbying; those are our strenghts. Fundraising and networking with other small miners is definitely our weakness. I encourage you to read our FREE 30-40 page newsletter we put out every month to stay abreast of ALL the court cases and pertinent information regarding our industry. Every dime that comes into our organization is used for paying our attorney for OUR LAWSUIT to benefit ALL MINING COMPANIES IN CA or some other direct cost. When we can, we help where we can by promoting Brandon's Lawsuit, Waldo Mining's and Keith's too. We encourage donators to donate directly to those specific lawsuits, so we don't ususally see any of those funds.

 

[Reed Lukens]

WMA is not a mining club in the "mining club" sense of the word- we wanted to represent the professional miner/mining claim owner- the guy who has "skin in the game". We started off as a handful of guys who - all owned mining properties/claims - but didn't know each other, and were brought together by third party and we started collaborating together to write arguments against the CA State Dredge Ban. Through our extensive research of literally months of reading and thousands of unpaid hours of research we figured out that the State of CA erred in the way they used the CEQA guidelines to run the dredgers out of the water; the State's wanton use of the CEQA had ramifications for anyone doing business in CA that can be affected via a CEQA decision. We formed a LLC and subsequently sued the State of CA and our court case is one of the cases being tried in San Bernardino. Five years ago, a small group of volunteers and myself spent a (unpaid) year and a half to cold call 15,000 claim owners, representing 55,000 mining claims in CA to try to organize them, with limited success. We have a member citizen miner lobbyiest who has spent hundreds of unpaid hours walking the halls of Sacramento meeting and talking representatives from both sides of the isles and he is on a first name basis with a lot of the power players at the Capitol. We go to industry group meetings and we talk with leaders in similar groups with similar issues. A couple of months ago, we travelled to and spent 3 whirlwind days in Washington DC to talk to our newly elected representatives about our plight in CA. We reached out to Pacific Legal Foundation to help with Brandon's case and we collaborate with other major legal firms. In order to save money, we research and write our own legal briefs. Our "members" receive mining claim reports and a few other minor perks. We don't have club claims, club meetings or anything like that. We do have a website where we sell stuff and we get a small percentage e-commerce kickback. We do research, writing and lobbying; those are our strenghts. Fundraising and networking with other small miners is definitely our weakness. I encourage you to read our FREE 30-40 page newsletter we put out every month to stay abreast of ALL the court cases and pertinent information regarding our industry. Every dime that comes into our organization is used for paying our attorney for OUR LAWSUIT to benefit ALL MINING COMPANIES IN CA or some other direct cost. When we can, we help where we can by promoting Brandon's Lawsuit, Waldo Mining's and Keith's too. We encourage donators to donate directly to those specific lawsuits, so we don't ususally see any of those funds.

In other words, WMA is just a bunch of guys who want to help all of us Miners. We've all been kicked in the teeth by the state of California, many of us have fought back. What have you done Victor? It's been asked before already and you didn't give an honest answer then. We all want to know what you have been doing to help the Miners in California win these court battles? Anything other then screaming at the people who actually are and have been doing something?
What are you doing Victor? Because it looks to many of us like you are on Izzy's payroll. Are you the enemy? Are you Izzy's henchman?
I'm on record as helping out our cause here for decades, it's well known that I along with many others have stood up for our rights to mine...
So where do you stand Victor?
Because to me, it looks to me that answer is...
Against us!
You whine and cry constantly about AMRA and others footing the bill, and that's just a "poor little me" type of attitude. Many of us have families and jobs to provide for them. What have you done other than leech off of the State? How many years ago did your parents responsibility to you end when you turned 18? How many more years have you been leeching off of them?
Maybe we should go to the source for answers too? Children are supposed to help their parents after they become adults, so how old are you going to be before you start acting responsibly and helping your parents get on with their lives? Do you donate to them or just Take?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YYOiXIz8pQ8

 

[minerrick]

Thanks Reed. I don't know those guys, but they HAVE to be on SOMEONE'S payroll (earning an HONEST living, Ha!). No one can be that irritating and not be. The good news is our case is airtight, and we expect to win as we have all the caselaw and decisions to support it.

 

[Goldwasher]

Goldwasher, I'm thinking you've got me confused with the other Rick who is the legislative contact in our group. He lives down by you, and I pretty much have no clue what you are talking about. Rick E. is a good guy, and I am sure that is who you are thinking of.

AHHH that makes sense...

And thanks for what you do. I will be talking to Rick E. and helping as I can. I help bring people into the prospecting world or at least get a taste. So, I make sure they know about these issues if they don't.

I'll be working on a way to get some money to Keith via portion of sells or something.

 

[MadMarshall]

its sad that its easier for you gentlemen to make fun of me and try to tear me down then just hold yourself accountable in the slightest.. All because I asked 2 simple questions from a NON Profit.( AMRA)..
Say and do what you like about me..
Though I admit its a little disheartening that these clubs have the maturity level of a three year old. And they much rather attack a prospector then account for their own actions..
Its not like I asked anything unreasonable. I just asked Shannon to show me the proof of what he said in regards to his support of Rhinehart.. And next thing you know AMRA and others attack me and do anything and everything but hold themselves accountable..

Gentlemen please know who and what you are giving to .. Know what they are doin and what they say they are doin ...does their actions reflect their words?. Do your donations just pay for lipservice? Don't be afraid to ask them to be accountable (though I understand why individuals may be afraid to confront groups like AMRA.) They are very good at intimidating and bullying people in the mining community that question anything they are doin.
Anyway I think this avenue has exhausted itself and its pretty clear that AMRA lacks any real courage or resolve other then tearing down people in the community they claim to support. they are more then willing to hurt people and do whatever it takes to protect their own interests even at the very exspense of the individuals they claim to be helping..

Gentlemen thank you for your time you were everything I knew you would be.. Anything and everything but HONEST..

 

[minerrick]

In my opinion, the real IRONY about all this is that a lot of these environmental groups aren't about saving the environment, its about sucking the government breast for taxpayer funded monies to destroy viable, profitable industries. Sue and Settle is a common tactic used where they sue the government agency and the government pays out a cash settlement to the group to delay the court case. In other instances it appears that the environmental groups are fronts, created by natural resource industry giants in order to eliminate the small scale competition via regulations, legislation and government mandate. EPA has been famous for shutting down viable businesses via onerous regulations.

My mining partner was run off his mining claim in So CA because of some sort of classification for the desert tortise. According to his story, the government made it illegal to mine there and erected some sort of monument. Low and behold a northern California Environmentalist elected official's husband came in and did a real estate land swap to acquire this area and mined the area with an open pit mine and made a huge profit , while apparently (as I am told) left a superfund site in return so the taxpayers could foot the bill for the cleanup. Quite the environmentalist.

California's natural resources are a big score for any resource extraction entity who can get their hands on them. I tend to be a little jaded about everyone's intentions in this whole arena, seeing it up front and personal. This battle isn't about the small miner who is destroying the environment. The mile high pile of evidence provided to the state with 60 years of instream mining research, has proved that. This battle is about large mining concerns who want to have access to the literally $Billions of dollars of natural resource wealth still left in CA via paying off their elected representatives to write onerous regulations and slip un-named legislative rider bills into budget bills (talk to Keith Walker about this). The natural resource concerns just don't want to pay a retail price for their access; they want it for wholesale or free if they can pull it off. The best way to accomplish this task is the completely devistate viable industries (if left alone in a free market) via government legislation and harassment, so they can come back in and sort through the ashes of their previously toughest competitors. In my opinion, this has been the course this state has been on for 50 years. It is a long term plan. We ain't in Iowa anymore. This whole thing is big stakes playing with the big boys with unlimited pocketbooks to achieve their goals with no expense spared. So far it has been pretty easy for them. Pay a couple of yahoos on online mining forums to put the question in the minds of those reading the forums, so they will question supporting people who are volunteering to defend their rights to mine their Federal Claims. Ohhhhhh.... is AMRA spending the $25 I sent into them correctly?.....Inquiring minds want to know...... Really? My guess most people have more important things on their minds then that.... but these guys persist..... WMA's doing it wrong??..... Shannon used donated money to drive to San Bernadino to support the case....ohhhh....ahhhh.

Our opposition must go to the local wine bar in their Bimmers, kick back eating caviar, tipping their wine glasses filled with $500 wine and laugh their asses off how gullable we are.

If these yahoos on the forums aren't working for the environmetalists, then they ought to be as they could make some money off it. I am sure the SF is hiring.

 

[Terry Soloman]

A lot of whining, and gnashing of teeth, but STILL no answers from AMRA on how they spend their donations. Guess we will have to wait for the eventual fraud investigation and trial. Special place in hell for those that take advantage of people they claim to help. Karma WILL catch up.

 

[minerrick]

Goldwasher- do what you can. I'm invested in our thing up to my eyeballs, and I am sending Keith $80. We are all in it together, and if each one of us pitched in $5, it would be a no brainer.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Since rules cant be followed thread is locked, next will be bans. Stop the insults now and watch the language, abbrivating a banned word still violates our rules.