looking for some help gold panning

[utah_ty]

I live in vernal,UT and want to start panning for gold. I am completely new to this so any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, also looking for someone in the area to help if possible.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Here's a dandy publication for anyone interested in Utah placer gold:

http://ugspub.nr.utah.gov/publications/circular/C-47.pdf

The website has a wealth (heh, heh) of information.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo, CM

 

[stephen583]

If you are a "newbie" keep in mind prospecting equipment is very different from larger scale production equipment. While you are making your first jaunts into the wild, you'll want to travel as "light" as possible. When I'm prospecting a new area, I usually only bring a picker (large screwdriver bent 90 degrees and sharpened on the end for crevassing work around boulders and cracks), a sturdy garden trowel (for cleaning out leftover dirt in holes others have already dug and abandoned).. some plastic bags for collecting samples and markers (like the plastic flags on thin wire). The flag is numbered and the plastic bag is numbered, that way you'll know where the dirt came from and where to find it again. NEVER MIX DIRT SAMPLES IN A BUCKET ! Not unless you are psychic.

There are actually a lot of weekend warriors out there who believe they can "see" gold in dirt.. I refer to them as "gorilla" miners. I can't even begin to describe how much gold I've found in holes novice miners have dug and then later abandoned. Personally, I find nothing unethical about doing this, or loading up dirt that has been unearthed by a BLM land management crew operating a bulldozer and doing reclamation work. It never hurts to ask, "Can I get some of that dirt if you don't mind" ?

Of course everyone should strive to be "fair" and not exploit someone else's hard work if they intend to come back. Usually if a hole is still being worked, it's considered proper etiquette to leave "signage" to that effect, or initials carved into a rock and thrown into the hole. I've even seen a bucket, or a tool left in a hole before, indicating someone is nearby and returning soon. Miners don't generally leave their equipment behind if they've finished working a hole. Be sure you observe these niceties, even though they are not specifically written in the law.

Once when I was prospecting on Rose Creek in Arizona near Phoenix and another prospector upstream asked if I would watch his sluice and gear while he grabbed some lunch. Within minutes another guy came along and pulled his sluice out of the stream (It was a nice spot) ! I hollered at the guy and told him the other guy was coming back and didn't want his equipment disturbed. The guy hollered back, "That's too bad" ! About forty five minutes later gunfire broke out between these two fellas. The Phoenix P.D. responded and arrested both of them. I was also strapped, but I saw no reason to send any lead in anyone's direction.

Anyway. The moral of the story is be respectful of fellow prospectors, no trespassing signs, mine markers and such, but don't pass up easy pickings that have been abandoned by novice, or earlier miners. In fact, when I prospect a new area, I keep my eyes peeled specifically for evidence of previous diggings.

Find the gold first, and then go buy yourself a breaker bar, eight pound sledge hammer, pick and shovel (if you need it). Second hand stores and some pawn shops usually have these basic tools in stock and pretty cheap, they'll also negotiate price, but make sure the wood handles aren't dried out and old).. Don't buy any junk. No need to buy classifiers off the internet, there are plenty of cheaper ones in the kitchen isle of most grocery and department stores.

If you get serious, you would be well advised to build your own sluice box. IMHO the mat is the most important element of a good sluice box. I've always found the mats in the sluices sold on the internet to be very unexceptional. Years ago I tried some "Razor Hog" mats in a sluice box I built myself, and I've NEVER LOOKED BACK.

Good Luck.

 

[Laz7777]

here's my $0.00 cents worth advice.....
go in completely stupid, forget about reading, viewing, or trying to figure anything out....
buy a pan, classifier, small shovel and jump in.
learn by being stupid, ignorance is underrated.

seriously.

you'll learn more by f***ing up than from other peoples' wisdom and experience.
it worked for me

 

[stephen583]

The weight of lead is pretty close to gold. Instead of buying pay dirt on the internet, it's a lot cheaper to just take a fishing weight and carve it into small chunks (pickers) with a sharp knife. A coarse file will produce particles as fine as "flour" gold. If you want to step up the realism a little bit more, you can buy some gold colored spray paint for a couple of dollars and paint your lead. That's what I practiced on when I was a newcomer to panning techniques and building sluice boxes.

 

[stephen583]

Another great resource most novice prospectors overlook are places where Ole' timer prospectors congregate. No. I'm not talking about local gem clubs, or gem shows.. I'm talking about BLM land that permits gold panning and prospecting where older prospectors begin congregating every Spring. Some of them remaining there until the first snow fall at the start of winter. You'll learn more at one of these camps in a week than you will learn in a whole year of watching videos on the internet.

In all likelihood, an Ole' Timer will take you under his wing and continue to teach you as long as you like, and will even invite you to share in the work load as a partner. THIS MEANS YOU DON'T PAY FOR THE EQUIPMENT until after you've seen how it actually works. It also means you'll probably be digging where there actually is some gold to be found. This kind of mentoring and hands on experience will advance your knowledge and your abilities way beyond your years in an extremely short period of time. The Cache Creek operator even rented out prospecting equipment at very reasonable rates.

I learned all about water pumps, hoses, sluicing, digging, panning and what to look for and where to look for it at a BLM on the front range of Colorado called "Cache Creek" below Leadville. After working all day with experienced prospectors, they would gather around their camp fires and hold discussions on equipment, methods and strategies (as well as a serious amount of tips and stories about the location of gold in the surrounding area and in other states) and cutting costs. This usually went on until well after midnight. I don't know if the Cache Creek BLM is still open nowadays for prospecting, or not. However there are other locations like it around the country.

BTW. I'm an Ole' Timer myself. I've prospected everywhere from Georgia to California. I might be 60 years old now, but I can find the "color" like nobody's business and I have tons of experience. I live in Salt Lake City at a four story 55 and older apartment building called "Riverside" at 610 South 900 West across the street from the Chapman Library (Apt.#108 First Floor). The coffee pot is always full and its' FREE. Alcohol is also allowed in the common area and the dining room.. but you have to behave if you drink. BYOB. I don't drink much anymore as a rule. Just ask for Steve in 108.. everybody knows me. If I'm not home, I usually leave a note on the clip at the door explaining where I am and when I'll be back. Leave a note with your name and number on the clip if you like, and I will contact you the same day. Sorry, I don't presently have a cell phone.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Great advice and btw, Cache Creek south of Leadville CO is still open. I was there in early November 2016 and enjoyed a beautiful late fall day. Found three little pickers and a decent amount of fines by expanding a muddy hole others had dug earlier in the season.

 

[stephen583]

Great to hear it Kevin, I heard rumors it was closed down by the govt. because of too much damage caused by irresponsible miners. Maybe they do close it periodically for reclamation work, and then re-open it after the work is completed. That may have been the result of the rumors I heard.

There are bigger nuggets to be found there than pickers. The teenage daughter of the "Gate Keeper-Operator" found what we called the "Christmas Tree" nugget (because it was roughly shaped like a Christmas Tree) while I visited there. Everyone agreed it was around a $500 dollar piece of gold. Although you are correct, the majority of the gold there is pretty small.

But the best day of panning I experienced there, I didn't get any gold at all. I was just setting up my sluice in the morning and getting ready to run two buckets of concentrate when a VW van pulled in. The youngster who got out had a bandanna on his bald head and dark circles under his eyes, but had a big grin. His dad explained it was stage four cancer, and his kid always wanted to go panning. They were doing his "bucket list". I told the kid we were going to run those two buckets through my sluice and I gave him a small bottle to put his all his gold in. That was my best day at Cache Creek.

 

[stephen583]

I also heard rumors there is even a better place close to Cache Creek just a couple of miles west of there where the color is way better. It had something to do with a couple of lakes, I kind of remember hearing the name "Twin Lakes". If you return to Cache Creek, you might want to take a short trip there and have a little "look around". When I heard the story, the first big snow storm of winter was about to hit, and I was in a hurry to get down to Salida before I got trapped there.

BTW folks. The road into Cache Creek is pretty good except for one bad dip right before you reach the BLM camp. For that reason you'll see the weak hearted parking their RV's and campers on the side of the road just before the dip. I made it through the dip in a Toyota at speed with no trouble though. At any rate the BLM is just a short walk past the dip.

When I was there camp sites in the BLM were FREE on an as "available" basis. Stone fire pits in some of them. I believe the "official" limit for stays was 14 days.. but if you got along with everyone extensions were granted. There are Porta-Potties at the entrance and usually hot coffee in the morning around the gate. Can't remember the "Gate Keeper Operator's" name, but he was sure one colorful nice fella, as were most of the Ole Timers.

Again Cache Creek Colorado is one of the top five places in the lower 48 I would highly recommend for a fun and safe family prospecting outing. You'll have a blast, tons of great photos and some fond memories. And the odds are, you'll find gold.. because nobody gets it all !

Good Luck and a safe journey.

 

[stephen583]

If you're cooking steak for supper at Cache Creek, you may even be visited by a couple of wolves that occasionally visit the camp ground looking for a hand out. Don't freak out, they're quite used to people and pose no danger. The Colorado Forestry Service will tell you there are no wolves in Colorado ! Even if you don't see these two wolves, you'll probably hear them howling up on the mountain side occasionally at night. BTW. I grew up in rural Texas on a farm and I know the difference between a coyote howl and a wolf.. believe me these are wolves !

 

[stephen583]

If you're cooking steak for supper at Cache Creek, you may even be visited by a couple of wolves that occasionally visit the camp ground looking for a hand out. Don't freak out, they're quite used to people and pose no danger. The Colorado Forestry Service will tell you there are no wolves in Colorado ! Even if you don't see these two wolves, you'll probably hear them howling up on the mountain side occasionally at night. BTW. I grew up in rural Texas on a farm and I know the difference between a coyote howl and a wolf.. believe me these are wolves !

 

[KevinInColorado]

Since we are focused on Cache Creek, here's my article on it: http://findinggoldincolorado.com/cache-creek-prospecting-site/

Stephen's comments about the big dip in the road are still true. The site opens for the season on Memorial Day weekend. This year the BLM plans to institute a fee (or says they plan to as of web postings last fall...we shall see if they actually do it).

Also as Stephen says, they occasionally close parts of the site for reclaimation (filling in really big holes, cutting dangerous dead trees, etc). I suppose they could close the whole place for a few days even but I haven't heard of that happening in the last 5 years so...still it never hurts to check the BLM website (link in in my article).

 

[Laz7777]

I used to live in SLC Steve, and frequented the Chapman library when I was couch surfing my friends' place in Glendale.
I agree with what you have to say, I had some help from a couple of Ole Timers, but not too much.
too much help and you never figure anything out for yourself, no matter how steep the learning curve.
you don't go through greenhorn to crusty sourdough by watching videos and reading.

 

[stephen583]

Good point Laz7777. At some point, in order to make the transition from studying prospecting to becoming a prospector, you have to actually get out there and get to work.

That having been said, there's a ton of information out there about gold prospecting any newcomer can access at a public library, or on line. Information about mineral identification, hydro-dynamics, general geology, methods, strategies, equipment, gold prospecting histories, and so forth and so on. Over the decades, I imagine I have accumulated the equivalent of several doctorate degrees in various different disciplines. LOL.

One of the most intriguing articles I ever read dealt with ancient river courses. While panning I always wondered why I always kept finding myself working the feeder creeks and smaller streams running into larger creeks and rivers, instead of the main tributary. After reading the article, I understood observable present day rivers and creeks are only one part of the picture. 100 million years ago, these modern day river courses didn't exist. Present day rivers were created at the end of the last ice age as glaciers melted. Ancient Prehistoric river courses may now be sitting on top surrounding hills, rather than in present day valleys and canyons where modern day rivers run.. In some instances, feeder creeks and streams are where the new gold depositions are primarily coming from. It's washing down the feeder creeks from the surrounding hills every year in the spring run off. It's not coming down the bottom of an existing river course.

Much of this new gold deposition doesn't make it into the main tributary. The heavier pieces may for instance drop out in the feeder creek where the smaller creek intersects the main tributary. It's basic hydrology. Especially during seasonal spring floods, less powerful feeder creeks can't overcome the current of the main tributary and push into it, so it naturally backs up at that point creating turbulence where the heavier gold drops out. Sure.. the main tributary is going to be full of smaller "flood gold", or what people call "flour" gold. I don't particularly prefer microscopic gold to large pickers, Do you ? So now I concentrate on locating these feeder creeks and working them aggressively where they intersect the main river course.

Long story short, there are existing river courses you can "see" and there are ancient river courses (on surrounding higher ground) you can't see, and in some cases the feeder creeks and streams are slicing right through that ancient hidden alluvial blue clay carrying their precious cargo of gold downhill.

The reason I am making these lengthy posts in this thread is not to impress other seasoned prospectors (who already know most of this stuff), but to help the newbies find gold. The thread was started by a newbie looking for advise, so I presume other new comers will be drawn to the thread searching for advise.

BTW. Posting advise in this forum is just a short break and welcome distraction from planning my next prospecting adventure in the spring of 2017. You'll notice I'll be dropping off these pages pretty soon.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Even as a seasoned prospector, I'm learning a lot and enjoying your long posts. I hope you find time to stick around!

 

[stephen583]

Let's talk "culverts" for a moment. I noticed an earlier post mentioned all he ever found in culverts was sand (and only white sand, no heavier black sand and no gold). I experienced similar disappointing results when I used to crawl into culverts under roads in gold country to take samples. Whys is that ? Well there are a couple of reasons.

I never saw a flash flood in a creek before, until I reached Arizona and Utah. The volume and speed of the water will put the "Fear of God" into anyone who has the least little bit of good sense. I've seen boulders the size of recliner chairs being swept along nearly as fast as the water moves. There are videos on the internet showing flash flood activity in canyons and creeks. Viewing these videos will give you a whole new appreciation for the power of flash floods and rushing water. Motorists are warned, just a few inches of water moving fast in a flood can float and wash away a 2.000 pound plus vehicle like a child's toy.

Now just imagine what happens when that kind of rushing water hits the open end of a culvert. A collision takes place, doesn't it ? The turbulence and rolling back wash effect on the upstream side of a culvert opening must be terrific during a flood. Any large rocks, heavies and black sand are going to drop out there.. not inside the culvert. In fact, the water inside the culvert is under even more pressure during a flood (take my word for it, I was a fire captain for 12 years.. I know something about water pressure). The water pressure in the culvert scours it clean during a flood. As the flood dissipates and the water slows, it's only able to carry the lightest particles into the culvert (namely white sand). Think about what happens when your sluice is set up in a creek or stream where the water is flowing too fast. A blowout occurs, doesn't it ? Your sluice doesn't catch anything, and everything blows out the end. Too little flow, and your material just sits there on the register pad and doesn't travel down the sluice. Same principle with a culvert during a flood and afterwards when the flow of water dissipates.

My advise would be to dig down to bedrock below the culvert opening on the upstream side, or about three to six feet back from the opening of the culvert on the same side. Think of a culvert more as an "obstruction" than an oversized sluice. Land management officials may have an issue with you digging directly beneath a culvert opening. However, some culverts are further in and more remote, and less visited than others (hint). Anyway, it seems to me, that's where the bigger pieces of gold are going to be found, not inside culverts located down on the benches of the mountains.

 

[stephen583]

"Black Sand". Now lets tackle the biggest problem in prospecting, but black sand is both a blessing and a curse. It is one of the indicators of where gold might be found (although not all black sand contains gold and other heavies. Generally you want the black sand on bed rock, although I have found tiny amounts of flour gold in black sand scooped up on the surface of riverbanks and creeks. The only way to tell for sure is to test "pan" the black sand where ever it comes from. Watching the videos Kevin referred to and with some hands on experience, you'll soon learn how to tap a gold pan and walk (vibrate) the gold particles out of black sand. It's TRUE, all prospecting comes back to professional panning techniques and the best designed pans. IMO a great pan is one of the things you should definitely buy off the internet, and not try to improvise yourself.

O.K. so now you've got half a dozen five gallon buckets of black and white sand and you're pretty confident they contain some gold.. what do you do next ? I should think, physically tap panning that much material would lead to fatigue and insanity, I wouldn't recommend it. The first step is to concentrate the gold at the bottom of your buckets. Gravity and vibration will accomplish that over time, tossing the buckets into a vehicle and driving them around a few days works nicely. As one previous post mentions, this process was discovered quite by accident. Road vibration takes care of everything. After a few days, simply shovel out the majority of the sand (think of it now as useless overburden). Save it and test it to be sure if you want. The last six, or eight inches of sand at the bottom of each bucket is the concentrate though.

I've wondered if it would be worthwhile to take the original sand, pack it into cleaned one gallon paint cans and take them down to the Sherwin Williams Paint Store and have someone put on one on a paint "mixing machine" that vibrates. I wonder what one of those machines costs used, or maybe someone could construct a small electric motor driven "shaker table" at home for precisely the same purpose. I imagine a plug in used electric sander with a wooden platform big enough to hold a one gallon paint can attached, and mounted on a metal stand, would do the trick. What do you think Kevin ?

The only system I saw that worked efficiently without any concentration at all still relied on air and gravity. A guy bought a variable speed wet/dry upright vacuum, made a series of loops (around five or six the size of a beach ball) using 1/4 inch clear plastic hose and connected one end of the hose to the wet vac hose. He thin stuck the loose end of the smaller clear plastic hose into a five gallon bucket of dry sand. I was quite dubious, but most intrigued. He obviously knew through experience exactly how much suction to use, because as the vac was turned on, and the sand made it's way through the upright loops, the lighter white and black sand rolled over the top of the loops, while the heavier gold fell backwards and remained at the bottom of the loops.

Let me tell you I was gob struck by this demonstration, and insisted of testing the sands collected in the wet vac. After several pans, I concluded the process was 100 % effective and highly efficient. Really fast too. He processed six or seven five gallon buckets in less than a couple of hours without breaking a sweat. Cleanouts, recovering the gold from the clear plastic tube were easy and quick too. He merely detached the smaller tube from the wet vac, stuck one end in a jar, and blew into the hose while giving it a shake. This system is actually based on the same principle early prospectors used to separate sands from gold, they simply used "moving air and gravity" as well.

In the old days, prospectors would just scoop some of the dirt onto a piece of canvass, and flip it into the air in a cross wind. This practice is called winnowing. The lighter sands blew away on the wind and the heavier particles of gold fell straight back onto the sheet, or blanket. At the end of the process, early prospectors would burn the wool blanket, or canvass sheet to recover any gold particles trapped in it, (although, I don't think I'd be worried myself about recovering that miniscule amount of gold). I should think the sheet, or blanket would be worth more intact than the gold it contained. Like any technique, it requires practice, trial and error. But the old ways do work.

Whether you decide to laboriously pan it all, go with high tech modern equipment, or use the old school winnowing technique.. do not despair, there are all kinds of ways for separating black sand from gold. I do however advise everyone not to waste their time playing around with magnets. You only end up trapping the gold in the iron magnetite (black sand) against the magnet, which doesn't qualify as separation in my book. Air and gravity, vibration and blue bowls do work. I leave the subject of the best recirculating "blue bowel" equipment to Kevin as I know this is his special area of expertise.

 

[stephen583]

"GOLD FEVER. What is it ? How do you know if you got it ? What are the symptoms ? Is it curable once you've got it ? Merriam Webster merely defines it as "excitement caused by a gold rush".. Personally, I don't think the word "excitement" even begins to describe this debilitating and ruinous disease. Obviously, Merriam never spent any time around any infected gold prospectors, or the definition would reflect how serious this "mental disorder" really is.

How do you know if you got it ? Well, let's start with the obvious. If you're standing on a mountain top 25 miles from nowhere with no transportation, hopping along on a broken ankle, with no supplies, or water, and with only the shirt on your back, surrounded in every direction by desolate mountain peaks.. wondering how you are going to get out of this situation alive.. with not even a speck of gold to show for it.. trust me, you have "gold fever" ! I've been there and done that.

Another sign, is if you partner up with someone who has no scruples, especially once you are aware you are being cheated, but you remain in the partnership anyway, hoping against hope, in the end you'll get the better of the other guy. You won't. I ran into a guy like this who had some pretty good heavy duty sluice equipment, pumps and hose. We were running about 40 five gallon buckets of dirt every day, and over a period of about a week, I noticed every time it was time to do a "clean-out" of the sluice, he suddenly needed something from back at camp, or he wanted more gasoline from town. When I returned, there he stood, head hanging down and all forlorn looking, with just a few specks of gold. One morning, before dawn, without any explanation, he simply got in his pick-up and sped away in the night, leaving me with a little bottle containing less than $50 dollars worth of flour gold. I was blindsided because of "Gold Fever" !

Not much later, I invested quite a bit of money (over a thousand dollars) in New Mexico to work a creek on this fella's property, which he assured me contained a vast amount of gold. Naturally, I test panned some of the dirt, but I was unaware he "seeded" the buckets with a few respectable sized pickers. When I noticed he wasn't buying any of the necessary and agreed to equipment, I naturally called the local police, who turned out to be his close friends. I never saw my money again.

I have also been bushwhacked and robbed at gunpoint on three different occasions while I was prospecting alone in National Parks believing I was perfectly safe. On one occasion in Arizona, I was hunted and shot at for two days in the backcountry, and had to evade the bandits. They had pistols, and I had my .50 caliber Hawkins rifle. Thankfully, no one was killed.

Since those early days, the Gold Fever subsided and I'm now in complete remission. Although, it's not unlike being a recovered alcoholic.. it takes vigilance and will power to avoid a relapse ! Nowadays, I realize if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I guard my bank account jealously and buy used equipment. I always make cautious and realistic plans, and I never go prospecting alone anymore.

So yes. You'll either "live and learn" and grow wiser as I did, or you'll end up broke, or dead. Either way, you'll get the cure.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Great info!
If by Kevin, you mean me, I don't have good experience getting gold to settle in a bucket of concentrates by driving around or otherwise shaking it. I think this is because the fine Colorado gold I work with is mostly flood gold- small and thin. Thus, the shapes get caught up easily by particles of rock, etc and the gold doesn't settle down thru the bucket fast enough to be useful. Gold particle shape seems to matter a lot for this process.

 

[stephen583]

Here's an idea Kevin. Since wind and gravity are what the old timers used to separate gold from sand, (white and black sand) by winnowing it, why not use a small variable 3 speed fan installed in the end of a 4, or 5 inch plastic pvc pipe. The pipe configuration would be four ended, with each arm being about 12 inches long. I'm sure something like that could be found at Home Depot pretty cheap. The fan would blow toward the open end of the pipe directly across from it. The material would be fed (sprinkled) every so gingerly into the top pipe opening and fall down to the wind sections. As it passed the wind in the cross section, the lighter sands would be blown out, (at least some of them anyway depending on how strong the fan is, which is why I suggested a 3 speed variable fan) and the heavier gold should continue dropping and exit the fourth pipe at the bottom, where it would be caught by a container.

You like fiddling with inventions and gadgets, don't you Kevin ? I should think this invention could be produced pretty cheaply and easily. With some tinkering, it could be a great machine for separating sand from gold. All we have to do is keep tweeking it until it the prototype works as advertised. For instance, the diameter of the pvc pipe may need to be smaller, say 3 inches. Then of course you'd have to find the ideal fan to mount in the pipe. Finally you would want a "pending" patent, and naturally you'll have to come up with a really "catchy" name. One idea I had for a name was the mini "Genie-Separator".

If you like, you can have a go at it. If I pursued every idea I came up with in the last forty years, I would have been a millionaire. When the aids epidemic hit back in the early 80's, I mentioned to a fireman friend of mine Vince Coulon somebody is going to have to invent individually wrapped"flavored" condoms and put them in convenience stores. I offered him a regular laxtex condom and suggested he give it a taste, naturally he refused, and he stuck to his guns and convinced me I was crazy. Guess what I saw on a 7-11 store counter three years later. Tuttie Frootie and Banana flavored condoms. Pretty soon they were everywhere.

In 1988 me and Charlie Guidry were contemplating something to sell on the internet as a side line. Since neither of us had any money to invest, I suggested ideally you wouldn't sell anything but empty air, or space. That would take care of production costs, inventory and shipping. Charlie laughed hysterically. "What kind of empty space are you going to sell Einstein" ? I replied, why not create a website where people in cities like New York can auction off their public parking space to someone else before they pull out it. Charlie countered, "That ain't even legal you idiot" ! "You'll get yourself sued, or arrested" ! Long story short, another guy came up with the same exact idea ten years later. Today the guy is a millionaire. He just facilitates the transaction on his web-site and collects a percentage for each soon to be empty parking space sold. Needless to say, Charlie and I are not millionaires.

That's just two businesses I got talked out of, there were dozens more. I also came up with an idea for the most formidable bear deterrent in the world, and I'm not talking about CS bear spray. The problem with CS bear spray is it is a direct fire weapon. If you have to use it, you're already engaged with a bear at close quarters. CS bear spray doesn't deter bears from entering your camp in the middle of the night, does it ? Nor does it deter a bear from quietly sneaking up on you while you are fishing on a river bank somewhere. (And let me tell you, an 800 lb. bear can creep right up on you. In most cases, the first indication there is a predatory bear nearby, is when you feel his breath on your neck). Then there is the other problem, "What if there is more than one bear" ? The solution. Even the biggest, baddest Kodiak, or mamma Grizzly bear isn't going to mix it up with a skunk, and every bear by the time it's two years old knows what a skunk smells like and to avoid them at all costs. Why not synthesize skunk spray in a can ? Walk out 10 yards, or so from your camp site, and give the spray can a miniscule squirt on a bush, and sleep safely. A bears sense of smell is 50,000 times that of a human. So you wouldn't have to use so much you would be able to smell the offending odor. Walk fifteen yards around the camp in a circle, and lay down some more "Fresh" skunk. Continue until you are surrounded by an invisible and impenetrable "skunk" barrier.

Of course it could be used as a direct fire weapon as well, if designed with a narrow stream, instead of a fog spray like a conventional bear spray. That's another downside to CS bear spray, the wind can blow it back on you, and you become as disabled as the bear is. CS bear spray then becomes a waiting game. Who will recover first ? You, or the bear ? Notice I keep using the phrase "predatory" bear, which is a bear that has decided to kill, or eat you. The runoff the mill, curious bear is easily deterred by CS bear spray. In fact, the average bear won't usually even enter a camp site with a strong human scent. If you leave your camp empty for more than three days, all bets are off. Better not try spraying CS bear spray through a hole in your tent either (say one made by a predatory bears claws). A straight stream skunk spray could easily be fired through the smallest hole, and the bear won't come back later on. he just learned you've got a skunk with you in your tent.

Imagine the advantage of not having to haul your packaged food up into a tree and haul it back down every time you cook. Sleep soundly all night in complete confidence. Never having to worry the pet dog is going to be killed by a bear (and BTW I've seen the biggest, baddest pit bulls on earth, roll over on their backs and whimper like a puppy at the approach of an 800 lb. brown bear). Your dog isn't suicidal, he isn't going to fight to the death against an gigantic monstrous predator like a brown bear. he probably wouldn't attack a 300 lb. black bear either, and the common and numerous black bear accounts for 95 % of all bear attacks on humans.

Name of the product "Bear-B-Gone" Skunk spray and bear deterrent. Naturally, you could tame your own wild skunk from a kit and throw it at the attacking bear. That might work also, but I think it would be less reliable than "Bear-B-Gone". One thing I always carry with me in bear country is a small economy size spray can of WD-40. It contains ether, and makes for one heck of a improvised blow torch with a bic lighter held in front the nozzle. Keep it down to a three second bursts, the nozzle will melt, and the can will explode with prolonged use as a flame thrower.

I've actually used WD-40 to stop a charging black bear in his tracks. The bear was digging in a garbage pile, and I walked carelessly past, as 300 lb. Boo Boo bear (as he was called by the locals) was well known and seemingly acclimated to people.. except if you got within 20 yards of his garbage pile. The bear covered the 20 yards in a couple of seconds and headed right at me with his ears back and his teeth showing. This was no "mock" charge ! I pulled out my can of WD-40 and the lighter, and gave Boo Boo bear a blast of fire just as he was swiping at my legs. Bears are covered with fur and they scorch easily. No real damage, just some burnt fur. Faster than you could say "God Yes" Boo Boo bear made a 180 degree flip in the air and reversed direction in a panicked run. He continued to bellow in indignation as he ran a couple of miles away abandoning the garbage pile for the day. A few weeks later, in the middle of the night, Boo Boo bear retaliated in a surprise attack and almost clawed his way into my tent. Fortunately the first gash was large enough, I was able to give him a second treatment with the WD-40 without catching the tent on fire, although the hole became a whole lot bigger, and my tent was ruined. Skunk spray eventually wears off, serious fire damage to a plastic tent does not.

There are a number of other conventional uses for WD-40 in the wilderness. You can start a fire with it, no matter how damp, or cold it is. It will keep your tent zippers in good working order, as well as those on your clothes. Sprayed on cloth wrapped around the end of a pole (once ignited), it makes a dandy torch, and the torches can be treated and stored away for a couple of days out of direct sunlight. Since it penetrates and removes moisture (says that on the can) it can relieve arthritis pain and limber up sprained ankles. Down south in Louisiana, we spray it on catfish hooks as bait on trot lines (BTW. that's illegal just about everywhere, but quite acceptable in a survival situation).

Of course a powerful hand gun, or a large caliber rifle might have worked as well.. but either would have killed the Boo Boo bear, who was only protecting his garbage pile from what he perceived as a fellow competitor for food. Bears apparently don't share well. Also placing a lethal shot on a charging bear (especially a really scary huge one) isn't that easy. A badly placed non-lethal shot on a charging bear, (especially a momma bear protecting her cub) will almost certainly result in a fight to the death between you and the bear.

Anyway, good luck making a million dollars Kevin if you decide to market "Bear-B-Gone". I'm near the end of my life, never married, and all my family are gone, so I don't need the money so much, as long as I have a roof over my head and I can make groceries.. I'm happy.

 

[goldhog]

Dude... I'd hate to see your fingers after typing.