LUE MAP THEORY, MAYBE SOME CONTEXT

LUE-Hawn

Sr. Member
Feb 16, 2018
380
319
United States
Detector(s) used
Minelab SDC 2300, Makro Deephunter Pro 3D, OKM EXP 4500 Pro, Garrett Hand Held Detectors, Falcon MD 20, English dowsing springs, Darley Spanish Dip Needle, L-Rods, what’s left of my brain :o)
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
View attachment 2144193
Photo from Google Maps (photo vantage point near Purgatoire Campground) .. pretty sure it's the same spot shown in this photo below (taken from The Travels of Hardrock Hendricks by Faye Hendricks, RAM 1976) View attachment 2144194
To All,

I have an older friend who punched in a road with a D-6 Cat into this area in the early 1960’s. The place in question was a cattle camp by one of the local ranching families that are still large land holders in that part of the country. He has lived in the area for nearly 90 years.

I’ve been picking his brain and he is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this and other areas.

Regards

LUE-Hawn
 

Ryano

Hero Member
Feb 16, 2014
737
1,215
St. Augustine, FL
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
To All,

I have an older friend who punched in a road with a D-6 Cat into this area in the early 1960’s. The place in question was a cattle camp by one of the local ranching families that are still large land holders in that part of the country. He has lived in the area for nearly 90 years.

I’ve been picking his brain and he is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this and other areas.

Regards

LUE-Hawn
Very interesting..

does he have anything to say about the highgrading conspiracy that our Crow found ?
 

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,670
8,913
Primary Interest:
Other
Thanks for the post, Randy. There is so much information about treasure signs and symbols that you could go into the sticks, on a long weekend and create a cache site, just to mess with people. If you find markers in the field. the most important thing you have to do is figure out why they were put there. If somebody is creating treasure signs, it makes it that much harder to do your research.
. . .
What is "real" and what is not? Here are some "treasure signs" that were created in quite recent times, scattered among much, much older markers in a well known repository of historical information. I know they're new because many years ago I photographed the "genuine" carvings and as I returned numerous times since, I began noticing the new stuff. By the way, this chicanery works both ways. In the same area, back in the 1970s, in the same area, I found a clearly older weathered carving that said "ADAMS 1880". Years later, it had been totally destroyed. Here are the "new" carvings:
New cross north.JPG


New heart.JPG


New x.JPG


Base niche.JPG
 

Randy Bradford

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2004
520
922
Sounds good.
Mdog, someone else was moving in the same line of thinking as you were many years ago.

I bought a packet of materials belonging to a father and son who had worked in tandem with Larry Goddard on the LUE in the 1970s. Among other things was a LUE version and some notes, indicating their belief at the time in 7 separate cache sites. They based their theory on the presence of several markers on the map, most notably the two dots in the original maps you've already marked, and 5 other "notches" scattered around the map. These are much more clear on cleaner versions of the map, but I've circled all 7 spots for your consideration...
 

Attachments

  • LUE circles.jpg
    LUE circles.jpg
    782.5 KB · Views: 12
Last edited:

Randy Bradford

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2004
520
922
This is perhaps the cleanest copy of the LUE I have. Unfortuantely, it came out of THM& from RAM publishing, so it's missing the two dots. RAM was notorious for using awful binding, so their spines crack over time. In this case, the LUE map fell out of my copy so I was able to make a very clean copy that was also free of distortion that photocopying straight from the book would have resulted in due to curvature in the spine.

The "notches" are mch easier to make out in this version. I also include the original captioning of the map because I feel there are some clues to the map containedtherein. KvM used some odd word choices, particularly if you're read nearly as much of his stuff as I have. Writing is like a fingerprint, everything from word choice, to spelling errors, to sentence length, etc. To put it bluntly, I don't know that I ever otherwise saw Karl use a phrase like "cryptic shibboleth hoarde of all hoardes"

1713536670390.png
 

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,670
8,913
Primary Interest:
Other
. . . I traced them on a piece of wax paper, the stuff my wife always tells me to stay out of. . . .
dog, you can probably print the LUE map with an inkjet printer onto clear acetate sheets to overlay on paper maps. That way, you can print different scaled base maps from Google Earth Pro and manually rotate the overlay.

Also, even better, you can download a graphics program (I use the free Photoscape X) that lets you load a Google Earth Pro jpg or screenshot as a base image, then insert a second image (LUE map) on top of the first one, lower the LUE map opacity so you can see through it, scale it, rotate it, reverse it, etc. A little more work, but your wife will be happy.
 

OP
OP
M

mdog

Bronze Member
Mar 22, 2011
2,366
4,419
What is "real" and what is not? Here are some "treasure signs" that were created in quite recent times, scattered among much, much older markers in a well known repository of historical information. I know they're new because many years ago I photographed the "genuine" carvings and as I returned numerous times since, I began noticing the new stuff. By the way, this chicanery works both ways. In the same area, back in the 1970s, in the same area, I found a clearly older weathered carving that said "ADAMS 1880". Years later, it had been totally destroyed. Here are the "new" carvings:
View attachment 2144386

View attachment 2144387

View attachment 2144388

View attachment 2144389
Future treasure seekers won't be able to tell the difference between the genuine markers and the new stuff. Soon, more and more people won't even waste their time in the field looking for treasure sign.
I read a KGC book that mentioned the Knights Gallant. They were Confederates who went into Yankee territory and organized groups of Confederate sympathizers. These locals were supposed to collect supplies and anything of value, including metals, and cache them until the time when the Confederate Army would come into their area. The Masons could have done the same thing, in preparation for any big government abuse. I wonder if the LUE clue, or anything similar, could have been used to direct Masons to a specific area where the local Masons could give them any information they might need.
 

OP
OP
M

mdog

Bronze Member
Mar 22, 2011
2,366
4,419
Mdog, someone else was moving in the same line of thinking as you were many years ago.

I bought a packet of materials belonging to a father and son who had worked in tandem with Larry Goddard on the LUE in the 1970s. Among other things was a LUE version and some notes, indicating their belief at the time in 7 separate cache sites. They based their theory on the presence of several markers on the map, most notably the two dots in the original maps you've already marked, and 5 other "notches" scattered around the map. These are much more clear on cleaner versions of the map, but I've circled all 7 spots for your consideration...
Thanks for sharing that information, Randy. I'll check the areas that you have circled and see if I can find anything that would indicate coordinates or a specific area. I will still need the Kensington Runestone mapping and the star chart. Right off, the dot at the top of the triangle in the bottom right quadrant is at the Kensington Runestone site. I have often wondered if there might have been a cache close to the runestone or something else of importance.
The dot in the center of the circle is probably either at Green River, Wyoming or Samaria, Idaho. I think that both of those places have had Mystery Glyph Stones located near them. I haven't looked, yet, to see if there are any treasure legends or mining operations associated with those two areas.
There might be some star chart coordinates by the notches in the upper right quadrant. I'll give it a look.
Thanks again for the information.
 

OP
OP
M

mdog

Bronze Member
Mar 22, 2011
2,366
4,419
This is perhaps the cleanest copy of the LUE I have. Unfortuantely, it came out of THM& from RAM publishing, so it's missing the two dots. RAM was notorious for using awful binding, so their spines crack over time. In this case, the LUE map fell out of my copy so I was able to make a very clean copy that was also free of distortion that photocopying straight from the book would have resulted in due to curvature in the spine.

The "notches" are mch easier to make out in this version. I also include the original captioning of the map because I feel there are some clues to the map containedtherein. KvM used some odd word choices, particularly if you're read nearly as much of his stuff as I have. Writing is like a fingerprint, everything from word choice, to spelling errors, to sentence length, etc. To put it bluntly, I don't know that I ever otherwise saw Karl use a phrase like "cryptic shibboleth hoarde of all hoardes"

View attachment 2144409
Thanks, Randy. Yes, the "cryptic shibboleth hoarde of all hoardes", got me too. I've read countless hours, during my life, and he's the only author that I've seen use that word. I didn't even know what it meant until I looked it up this morning. Seems to mean a password. One thing I liked about Von Mueller's writing was that it was easy to understand. That phrase did seem out of place.

I know some of you have exchanged ideas about the IAYAYAM key, but if he said that the LUE clue was redrawn exactly from the IAYAYAM key, does that mean that the LUE clue is the whole key or are there more parts to the key?
 

OP
OP
M

mdog

Bronze Member
Mar 22, 2011
2,366
4,419
dog, you can probably print the LUE map with an inkjet printer onto clear acetate sheets to overlay on paper maps. That way, you can print different scaled base maps from Google Earth Pro and manually rotate the overlay.

Also, even better, you can download a graphics program (I use the free Photoscape X) that lets you load a Google Earth Pro jpg or screenshot as a base image, then insert a second image (LUE map) on top of the first one, lower the LUE map opacity so you can see through it, scale it, rotate it, reverse it, etc. A little more work, but your wife will be happy.
Thanks sdcfia. I'm a tech idiot but I'm going to try working my way through these instructions. I'm sure this program will be a lot better than what I'm doing.
 

Randy Bradford

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2004
520
922
Thanks, Randy. Yes, the "cryptic shibboleth hoarde of all hoardes", got me too. I've read countless hours, during my life, and he's the only author that I've seen use that word. I didn't even know what it meant until I looked it up this morning. Seems to mean a password. One thing I liked about Von Mueller's writing was that it was easy to understand. That phrase did seem out of place.

I know some of you have exchanged ideas about the IAYAYAM key, but if he said that the LUE clue was redrawn exactly from the IAYAYAM key, does that mean that the LUE clue is the whole key or are there more parts to the key?
The best suggestion I've ever gotten is that IAYAYAM stands for "I Am You And You Are Me." I've taken this to mean that perhaps the map is meant to be read as a mirror image. Your guess is as good as mine though.
 

Ryano

Hero Member
Feb 16, 2014
737
1,215
St. Augustine, FL
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
I also include the original captioning of the map because I feel there are some clues to the map containedtherein. KvM used some odd word choices, particularly if you're read nearly as much of his stuff as I have. Writing is like a fingerprint, everything from word choice, to spelling errors, to sentence length, etc. To put it bluntly, I don't know that I ever otherwise saw Karl use a phrase like "cryptic shibboleth hoarde of all hoardes"

At the risk of stating the obvious, KVM wrote a sensational description; he's literally advertising a treasure hunt and puzzle challenge. That's interesting because he advised caution against "Big Ticket" treasures yet he's selling the heck out of this one.
 

Last edited:

Ryano

Hero Member
Feb 16, 2014
737
1,215
St. Augustine, FL
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
What is "real" and what is not? Here are some "treasure signs" that were created in quite recent times, scattered among much, much older markers in a well known repository of historical information. I know they're new because many years ago I photographed the "genuine" carvings and as I returned numerous times since, I began noticing the new stuff. By the way, this chicanery works both ways. In the same area, back in the 1970s, in the same area, I found a clearly older weathered carving that said "ADAMS 1880". Years later, it had been totally destroyed. Here are the "new" carvings:
View attachment 2144386

View attachment 2144387

View attachment 2144388

View attachment 2144389
The last photo is very interesting. 🧐 Will you tell us more about what happened there ?
 

Randy Bradford

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2004
520
922
At the risk of stating the obvious, KVM wrote a sensational description; he's literally advertising a treasure hunt and puzzle challenge. That's interesting because he advised caution against "Big Ticket" treasures yet he's selling the heck out of this one.
Perhaps not...since that's literally the entire content for its original publication. It's slipped into the picture section of the book almost as an afterthought. There would be no back story or discussion about the map for several more years when he published NPG 6.2, and then more a few later in Treasure of the Valley of Secrets. You are right about his thoughts on "Big Tickets" though, he was much more focused on finding lots of small treasures closer to home.
 

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,670
8,913
Primary Interest:
Other
The last photo is very interesting. 🧐 Will you tell us more about what happened there ?
I discovered it several years ago while searching for the weathered missing "ADAMS 1880" carving. Those are my gloves in the photo for scale. It appears to be a niche of some sort. Even though the rock is a relatively soft volcanic tuff, it took a significant amount of work to accomplish. I have no idea who did it.

I wouldn't be surprised to return and find a santo or some other other sort of spiritual figure placed in there. Maybe even Native American? There's an enigmatic old Apache-referenced carving way above it. The niche faces southeasterly toward the Kneeling Nun monolith, about 11 miles away.
Kneeling Nun b&w 2.jpg
 

OP
OP
M

mdog

Bronze Member
Mar 22, 2011
2,366
4,419
Has anybody heard any rumors of LUE treasure around the Beulah Valley area? I think that's the location of the Sun on the LUE clue.
I've been researching for hours and it's late. I'll post more information later today. Thanks.
 

OP
OP
M

mdog

Bronze Member
Mar 22, 2011
2,366
4,419
Mdog, someone else was moving in the same line of thinking as you were many years ago.

I bought a packet of materials belonging to a father and son who had worked in tandem with Larry Goddard on the LUE in the 1970s. Among other things was a LUE version and some notes, indicating their belief at the time in 7 separate cache sites. They based their theory on the presence of several markers on the map, most notably the two dots in the original maps you've already marked, and 5 other "notches" scattered around the map. These are much more clear on cleaner versions of the map, but I've circled all 7 spots for your consideration...
I checked these notches that you circled, in the upper right quadrant, and I believe they were used, with the star chart, to determine coordinates. It does seem they used 1/16 of an inch, on the LUE clue, to represent different units of measure, feet, miles and degrees.

I decided to measure the Sun rays in the top half of the LUE clue and I concentrated on the rays of the Sun going to the points of the stairs. I've posted that I thought these steps represented mountain peaks so I was looking for evidence of that theory. Here is a picture that shows the measurements, in sixteenths of an inch, of the Sun's rays.
LUE numbers.jpg

I believe that the peaks represented by the steps are, starting at the top, Marble Mountain, Black Mountain, Blanca Peak, West Spanish Peak and Culebra Peak. The elevations of these peaks are:
Marble Mountain 13,272 ft
Black Mountain 9,040 ft
Blanca Peak 14,350 ft
West Spanish Peak 13,631 ft East Spanish Peak 12,688 ft
Culebra Peak 14,047 ft

I also found headings on the Sun rays. Here's a picture.

LUE headings.jpg


If you check the headings on a flat table map, you have to have a map that shows latitude and longitude as curved lines, but I've never seen one for a small area. If you don't have the right table map, the headings will be off.
Here's how the headings look plotted with google earth paths.

Auriga headings.jpg


The area around Beulah Valley is at the center top of the Sun on the LUE clue.

Later this evening, I'll explain how the Auriga formation was plotted.
 

Randy Bradford

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2004
520
922
This is pretty awesome...
I'll need to consult my old powerpoint from the presentation I did, I had someone on the forums suggest a similar use of the sun rays...but measuring as you have certainly provides an intriguing possibility.

I've often wondered, assuming the reported recovery sites were legit, if there would be a way to reverse engineer the map to ultimately reveal additional locations. that said, seems even if you could, reported locations (assuming they're legit) might not be very useful from a proximity standpoint. Most of the locations (Mora, Elizabethtown, etc.) refer to towns in the area with no sense of how much distance might truly exist between the towns (as reference points) and the actual cache recovery sites.

None of your maps dip into the NM area where many of the alleged recoveries occur.

Something else to consider, I'm fairly certain Pyramid Peak in southern Colorado, which has a rather pronounced notch in the adjoining peak, is likely an aspect of solving the LUE as well.

Outstanding post sir...
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Discussions

Top