Metal Detecting in state parks?

[Roman Legion]

I searched for a thread before posting, but didn't find anything. Can I metal detect in state parks, namely Hungry Mother State Park in Smyth county, Virginia? There are some old CCC buildings and I'd like to search them this weekend.

 

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[Terry Soloman]

Just call them and ask them. How do we know? Hungry Mother State Park

 

[BaronH]

Terry Soloman, I live in Washington state and I happen to know that I can Metal detect in Washington state parks, in designated areas. I would have no problem sharing this info with a fellow MDer. Its apparent that this person is a new to the forum and looking for some info and maybe some friendly advice. Im sure there are members from Virginia that can answer this individuals question and might even be able to give them a little history, point them in the right direction or maybe make a local connection. Calling someone on the phone sounds easy but can take a considerable amount of time, it took me 45 minutes on the phone with King county to find out where I can purchase a MDing permit, all but one of the 4 people I spoke with had never heard of one. I guess long response short, you responding with "How do we know?" implies that you are speaking for the members as a whole. I may not know and you may not know but if thats your or my conclusion then why even bother responding, especially in such a short unfriendly way?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Terry, it's risky to call any entity like that, to ask them "can I?". Because you might get a "no", when no real rule saying such a thing exists. Ie.: simply because of the mood, or mental impressions, of the person you are asking. So rather than thinking we need to "ask" someone permission (or "can I?" or whatever), it's better to look the rules up for oneself. If there is nothing saying "No metal detectors", well then presto, it must not be prohibited

So using your link, I went further through the links, and see they have a rules section. I see nothing in there that says anything about "metal detectors" or "metal detecting" :

Virginia State Parks - FAQs

The "permit" that Baron speaks of, may come from something like this lead:

Federation of Metal Detector & Archaeological Clubs Inc.

So, yes, perhaps there's a "permit" you can get in some of the state parks there. However, I find it odd that he had to spend "45 min." on the phone with numerous people, to even get someone who knew what he was talking about (we are admittedly in a niche small hobby, eh? haha). So that tells me, that perhaps if he'd just gone, that no one would ever have cared or noticed, since it appears they simply don't know about it.

 

[BaronH]

Yep, it was pretty funny listening to the responses I got when I called the King County parks Dept for a permit. It started with a receptionist who informed me the individual I needed to talk to was out of the office but she would help me, at the mention of a metal detecting permit she confidentally assured me I had called the wrong department and needed to contact the permit dept. I was transfered and the goat show commenced.... The next person I spoke with had not heard of and did not comprehend the concept of a metal detector, she transfered me to her supervisor who tried to convince me I needed to contact the environmental Protection Agency and or the Department of Ecology before I just started running around all willy nilly digging holes in Goverment dirt, permit or not. I gave up, called back the parks dept and finally found a competent person who was familiar with what a metal detector is and the fact that they sell permits. I am not so sure about it going without notice, the park rangers and county park employees are savy to the permit requirements and are very quick to check that you have one. Its only $20 a year so I figure its money well spent for the land it gives me access to.

 

[Rawhide]

Good for you. My state says no. There is also new rules about disturbing or defacing property. Now heres the bad news. You can rick loosing your equipment and a free ride to the pokey. Know your state, and its rules.

Some will agree with me these are rules, enforced by a posted not elected official. I dont like all the new rules being enforced as laws.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

There is also new rules about disturbing or defacing property.....

Casca, just curious: what would those rules about "disturbing" or "defacing" property have to do with your chosen hobby of metal detecting? Unless you intend to leave holes and/or a mess, then it seems to me that you haven't disturbED or defacED anything, now have you? Because technically, all such phrases implicitly refer to the end result. And bear in mind that those phrases exist everywhere, on all public land. Even city parks, county parks, etc... where detecting has just simply always gone on. Eg.: no place "allows" vandalism, alterations, destruction, and so forth. But no, I do not define my hobby in those terms. Presuming of course, you're not leaving holes, then those phrases refer to how you leave a place, if you ask me.

Sure someone can argue with the semantics of it, and the temporary evil interum process of retrieval if they want. You can't 100% stop all kill-joys. So sometimes you just have to avoid such busy-bodies, and go at low traffic times, to avoid such gripers.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Terry Soloman, I live in Washington state and I happen to know that I can Metal detect in Washington state parks, in designated areas. I would have no problem sharing this info with a fellow MDer. Its apparent that this person is a new to the forum and looking for some info and maybe some friendly advice. Im sure there are members from Virginia that can answer this individuals question and might even be able to give them a little history, point them in the right direction or maybe make a local connection. Calling someone on the phone sounds easy but can take a considerable amount of time, it took me 45 minutes on the phone with King county to find out where I can purchase a MDing permit, all but one of the 4 people I spoke with had never heard of one. I guess long response short, you responding with "How do we know?" implies that you are speaking for the members as a whole. I may not know and you may not know but if thats your or my conclusion then why even bother responding, especially in such a short unfriendly way?

Look, I understand what you're saying Baron, and I have no argument with it. Just understand that I think this question - which comes up all too often, is ridiculous. If you LIVE somewhere and have to ask strangers on a public forum what the rules are where YOU live, you should be tied up and have cold water thrown on you, while the church choir of your choice sings inspirational hymns softly in the background until you wake the Kentucky Fried Chicken Up!

Most of us are just going to go to wherever we want to go anyway regardless of the rules - especially if we think we can get away with it. Heck, that’s one of the traits of a treasure hunter. We are “pirates,” who make our own rules and find our own solutions..

Alright Baron, maybe I shouldn’t have had that third Scotch at lunch. I’m sorry Roman L. Maybe call the local metal detecting club, or just put your patch and peg leg on and hit that sucker like you own it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

....Alright Baron, maybe I shouldn’t have had that third Scotch at lunch.....

Yeah Terry, no more triple-martini lunches for you! Bad boy Forums have become the equivalent of yester-year's "clubs" and/or social circles afterall. It was a fair question, that someone here may have known the answer to (or direct the direction to start in, to have found answers, etc...)

 

[Connecticut Sam]

I searched for a thread before posting, but didn't find anything. Can I metal detect in state parks, namely Hungry Mother State Park in Smyth county, Virginia? There are some old CCC buildings and I'd like to search them this weekend.

Not in Connecticut, trust me. Good luck.

 

[eagle927]

I live in Indiana and I contracted DNR here and this what they send me via email.

Thank you for your recent email to the Division of Historic Preservation and Archaeology. Please see the attached for information regarding the law in Indiana which protects archaeological sites dating before Dec. 31, 1870.

For Department of Natural Resources properties, see below:



312 IAC 8-2-10 Preservation of habitat and natural and cultural resources

Authority: IC 14-10-2-4; IC 14-11-2-1

Affected: IC 14

Sec. 10. Except as authorized by a license, a person must not do any of the following within a DNR property:



(1) Molest an animal den or bird nest.



(2) Collect any wild animal, except as authorized by section 3 or 4 of this rule.



(3) Damage or collect a plant or pick flowers. Exempted from this subdivision are the following:

(A) Berries.

(B) Fruits.

(C) Nuts.

(D) Fallen cones.

(E) Mushrooms.

(F) Leaves.

(G) Greens.



(4) Pick berries, fruits, nuts, fallen cones, mushrooms, leaves, or greens on a nature preserve unless the nature preserve is

located at any of the following:

(A) State park.

(B) Reservoir property.

(C) Fish and wildlife area.

(D) State forest.



(5) Damage, interfere with, or remove:

(A) a work of art;

(B) an artifact;

(C) a rock or mineral;

(D) a shipwreck;

(E) an archeological site;

(F) a historic site;

(G) a building; or

(H) a sign.



(6) Place or maintain a:

(A) structure;

(B) device;

(C) dock;

(D) buoy;

(E) ramp; or

(F) sign.



(7) Use a metal detector, except on a sand, swimming beach as approved by an authorized representative.



(8) Rock climb or rappel.

(9) Collect firewood on a state park.

(10) Dig or excavate any material from the ground.

(11) Regardless of whether taken lawfully, sell any material taken from a DNR property. Exempted from this subdivision are

materials taken under a license issued by the department that specifically authorizes the sale of the material.



From: http://www.in.gov/legislative/iac/T03120/A00080.PDF?





To find out more about federal, county, local laws, and state laws about properties other than those owned by the Department of Natural Resources, you would need to contact the appropriate offices regarding those properties and laws.

 

[eagle927]

Now I called the guy that was the president of the local MD club here in Evansville and he shared with me that I can hunt anywhere as far as city parks and schools without any repercussion from the law now if you hunt personnel property you have to have the owners permission of course. Hope this help people around her where I am at.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Now I called the guy that was the president of the local MD club here in Evansville and he shared with me that I can hunt anywhere as far as city parks and schools without any repercussion from the law now if you hunt personnel property you have to have the owners permission of course. Hope this help people around her where I am at.

Eagle, thanx for chiming in. Question: How did you phrase your question to that state entity in Indiana? However you phrased it, I see that instead of sending you back a "yes" or a "no", that instead they simply sent you actual citation of laws/rules. Good. That, as you've probably already realized, is also probably something that you could have also looked up for yourself, as well.

The reason why I make this distinction, is that rather than someone you asked simply saying "no you can't", and then .......... as rationale for their answer: they give you some citation about cultural heritage, or harming the flora, etc.... And then you don't see anything specific mention there of "metal detectors". Instead, they have morphed something ELSE they think or claims applies to you "pressing question"

In the case of the answer you got, there IS specific mention of metal detectors. And as you can see it is specifically allowed there (albeit only on sandy beaches).

As far as the 2nd part of their answer, that you should ask other entities/levels, for other types land (city and county), I see that rather than do that, you .... instead .... asked a local club person. I guess you figured that long-time md'rs will have already gone through this hoop, since, presumably, they've no doubt detected local parks and school yards up till now anyhow, right? This is not only a good tactic for this reason (so that numerous yahoos aren't showing up at city and county halls across the USA being a "red-flag" to bureaucrats), but also for another reason: Those old-timer mdr's in various locales, may give the type answer you got NOT because it's the actual answer you'd get (or that they got years earlier) from a bureaucrat in that exact spot, BUT RATHER that it is the actual "in practice" reality of the area. So in other words, perhaps the parks and schools there have simply been detected since the earliest guys in that area (1960s or '70s), and no one's ever had a problem. So ... it's just "assumed" that it's ok, since .... why would anyone ever question that?

In my area, for example, the guys that turned me on to detecting in the mid 1970s, took me out to the local school yards. We'd get wheaties and an occasional silver or buffalo. I was hooked! So I ran out and got my own detector, and ...... of course .... simply went to the same places they were going: School yards! Why would I question that? In those days, it just never occurred to any of us that you needed to "ask" to do this, because ..... why should you? They're public schools aren't they? I mean, sure, we had the "presence of mind" to not go during school hours, and to be "discreet" about retrieval, etc.... But no, we never "asked" if it was "ok" at ANY park or school, etc.... And so, to this day, if you were to ask any of us long-timers "can I detect the schools and parks there?", We'd probably give you the same type answer you got from when you asked at that club.

HOWEVER, if you were to ask the SAME question to the local school board, or city hall here, you might find someone to say "no" (simply because you asked). Or perhaps they'd morph something else and say "well.... you can't harm the grass, or earthworms, so no you can't", or some such silly answer. But the actual in practice answer here is: Sure, so long as you're not an eye-sore, or nuisance, asking silly questions

 

[eagle927]

I hear ya Tom. But I am still going to look at those place you just never know what was missed.....

 

[Sandman]

Listen to Tom.......Just go do it. Yeah don't ask if it is OK to play ball or watch the birds do ya?

 

[dholland02]

Ive hunted state parks with mo trouble. I never ask unless its someone's property.the worst they'll do is tell you to leave.
Have at it!

 

[Jim in Idaho]

T
So, yes, perhaps there's a "permit" you can get in some of the state parks there. However, I find it odd that he had to spend "45 min." on the phone with numerous people, to even get someone who knew what he was talking about (we are admittedly in a niche small hobby, eh? haha). So that tells me, that perhaps if he'd just gone, that no one would ever have cared or noticed, since it appears they simply don't know about it.

I tell you, we're turning into sheep. We're afraid to move without somebody in the government giving us permission. If we don't start "standing up" we're going to have no freedom, no liberty. You want to go detecting, just "do it". So they throw you out...what have you lost? And, as Tom so elegantly put it....probably no one will know, or care. The only time I don't go is when there is a POSTED sign saying it's illegal....and then I often question it.
Jim

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

I tell you, we're turning into sheep. We're afraid to move without somebody in the government giving us permission. If we don't start "standing up" we're going to have no freedom, no liberty. You want to go detecting, just "do it". So they throw you out...what have you lost? And, as Tom so elegantly put it....probably no one will know, or care. The only time I don't go is when there is a POSTED sign saying it's illegal....and then I often question it.
Jim

Jim, there was a true case of a newbie getting a detector, and heading out to the nearest beach, closest to his home. It happened to be a federally run beach here in CA, that ..... rumor has it ....... detecting is not allowed. At least that's the info. passed back and forth between md'rs in that area, for decades now. Anyhow, this newbie didn't know any better (afterall, WHERE ELSE does one detect, .... than the beach? doh!). So off he went, and plyed the dry sand in the heavily trafficked main areas. He was surprised at the shear amounts of coinage he was getting (and an occasional piece of jewelry). So he returned the next day and went at it again. Staggering coin counts of 100 to 200 coins per day, as fast as he could dig (albeit all new, since he was in the dry sand). After about a week of this, the newbie just couldn't fathom why the "locals" weren't "all over this".

Eventually he found his way to a metal detecting web-forum, and decided to post about his good fortune, in the bragging-section of whatever forum it was. I saw that this fellow was from my state, and knew a bit about the area of the state he was in. So I started communicating with him, hoping to get him to drop his guard and tell me which beach he as hunting. Eventually, he confided in me, through our email exchanges, which beach it was.

Once I heard which beach it was (a certain federal beach), I emailed back and told him "I thought this beach was 'off-limits' ?" He simply couldn't believe it. He thought I must be mistaken. Because, you see, he'd been there, by then, for several weeks, multiple times per week, in broad daylight, in full-view of anyone and everyone, and no one had ever said anything to him! Yup, in full view of life-guard towers, rangers, etc..... No one cared. Thus, in his mind, it must be me who was mistaken (because certainly someone would have said something to him by now, RIGHT?). Nonetheless, upon my alert to him, he began to slueth around to see if what I'd told him was the case.

He began to see that this was the general consensus amongst md'rs in that area, so he began to realize why he'd been doing so well there: Because everyone else thought it was off-limits, so it remained virgin with decades of losses in the heavilly trodden zones. Doh!

He actually considered just dis-regarding the information and simply continuing to go. Because, afterall, in actual practice, it was painfully clear that no one cared!

All I can figure is, that perhaps someone decades ago got booted by an over-zealous ranger, morphing some minutia to apply to this. That md'r promptly feeds this info into the local rumor-mill info. at the local club, and people tell each other (afterall, you "wouldn't want to get into trouble, right?). And before long, after a few decades it's just taken as fact. And sure, if you sleuthed long enough and hard enough, perhaps it's even *technically* there on the books that you aren't supposed to harm the sand-crabs or something.

I don't know whether the fellow just ignored the new-found info and continued or not. But you can plainly see why ..... it would be tempting to simply dis-regard such info, when it's that plainly evident that no one cares. And for him to go "seeking clarification" from a ranger (those same rangers who pay-him-no-mind), would be folly wouldn't it? I mean, duh, do you really want them to go looking deep into dusty-minutia, calling state capital, to try to answer your "pressing question"? And gee, if you did that, guess what happens the next time that ranger or life-guard sees another md'r out there (whom he'd previously never have paid second-mind to)?

Do you see the maddening vicious circle??

 

[dholland02]

How I do it is if theres no sign at the parking area that says no MDing I'm going for it. I figure they pay those park rangers to sit on there butts itll give them some work trying to figure out if I'm supposed to be there or not lol

 

[eagle927]

I have found every state is different with there laws and where and when you can hunt. As for me I will get the owners permission before hunting and follow the laws here in Indiana everything else is fair game. I have noticed so far that the owners are willing to let u hunt.