My Dowsing Test

[aarthrj3811]

Incidentally, there are no rules on dowsing yet, just personal ideas that help each to work at dowsing, it really does not matter whether it is correct or not if it helps them.

Your right on the mark Realde....When we tell others how dowsing works for us we can either us it or not....Art

 

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[ClonedSIM]

Incidentally, there are no rules on dowsing yet, just personal ideas that help each to work at dowsing, it really does not matter whether it is correct or not if it helps them. Many of my fellow pilots would not fly unless they had their particular good luck charm with them, illogical as it may be, it helped them to better performance.

Tropical Tramp

And that's the problem. Personal ideas? So each person's past experiences tells them how the rods are going to react the next day? This is where dowsing breaks free of any scientific chains and wanders off into the ether.
It's all fine and good to say dowsing is scientifically explained in some way, but science deals in rules and boundaries and repeatable results, not opinions and guesses and a new set of rules for dealing with each dowser.
Why does dowsing work differently for everyone who dowses? Because there are no rules.
Why does dowsing not follow a set pattern of any kind? This is the question that remains unanswered.

 

[aarthrj3811]

And that's the problem. Personal ideas? So each person's past experiences tells them how the rods are going to react the next day?

I see no problem. Personal ideas? So each person's past experiences tells them how the rods are going to react....I had to change the statement a little.

This is where dowsing breaks free of any scientific chains and wanders off into the ether.

What chains?

It's all fine and good to say dowsing is scientifically explained in some way, but science deals in rules and boundaries and repeatable results, not opinions and guesses and a new set of rules for dealing with each dowser

sci·ence
1.
a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.
5. Science Christian Science.
Why does dowsing work differently for everyone who dowses? I don't know + you don't know = we don't know

Because there are no rules...

I have my rules so there are some.

Why does dowsing not follow a set pattern of any kind?

Because people have not found any one set pattern.

This is the question that remains unanswered.

Why do you wear a hat and I don't? Why do you part your hair on left and I part mine on the right? I just file that question in my WHY file and move on.....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

And that's the problem. Personal ideas? So each person's past experiences tells them how the rods are going to react the next day?

I see no problem. Personal ideas? So each person's past experiences tells them how the rods are going to react....I had to change the statement a little.

This is where dowsing breaks free of any scientific chains and wanders off into the ether.

What chains?

It's all fine and good to say dowsing is scientifically explained in some way, but science deals in rules and boundaries and repeatable results, not opinions and guesses and a new set of rules for dealing with each dowser

sci·ence
1.
a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.
5. Science Christian Science.
Why does dowsing work differently for everyone who dowses? I don't know + you don't know = we don't know

Because there are no rules...

I have my rules so there are some.

Why does dowsing not follow a set pattern of any kind?

Because people have not found any one set pattern.

This is the question that remains unanswered.

Why do you wear a hat and I don't? Why do you part your hair on left and I part mine on the right? I just file that question in my WHY file and move on.....Art

Your Why file is getting full, but I have to applaud you. Twice in two days you've responded to an entire post. Congrats!
You've missed my point, I believe. Dowsing can't be a scientific entity if everyone makes up their own rules as they go. This is easy to understand.
Does everyone make up their own driving rules when they take a trip?
Does everyone play by their own rules when playing Monopoly?
Of course not, because that's not the way these things work.
No matter how many people add 1+1, the answer is always 2.
Why is dowsing different?

 

[aarthrj3811]

You've missed my point, I believe. Dowsing can't be a scientific entity if everyone makes up their own rules as they go. This is easy to understand.

It fits the rules listed under Science so whats the problem?

Does everyone make up their own driving rules when they take a trip?

I decide how many hours to drive....How fast I will drive...When I will stop for gas....Oh yes...Where I am going.....I don't make them all up but just some of them.

Does everyone play by their own rules when playing Monopoly?
Of course not, because that's not the way these things work.

Good answer

Why is dowsing different?

It is not to me....You seem to have a problem with the truth about dowsing.....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

You've missed my point, I believe. Dowsing can't be a scientific entity if everyone makes up their own rules as they go. This is easy to understand.

It fits the rules listed under Science so whats the problem?

sci·ence
1.
a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.
5. Science Christian Science.
Where'd you get these rules from, Art?

a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. These is no identification of dowsing, no real description since everyone seems to have their own rules, and definitely no theoretical description. Everyone has their own theory, but something with a hundred different theories does not have a theoretical explanation.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena. What class of natural phenomena does dowsing fall under?
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study. It's been studied and found to be about the same as guessing.
5. Science Christian Science Huh? Seriously, where did you get these rules from?

Does everyone make up their own driving rules when they take a trip?

I decide how many hours to drive....How fast I will drive...When I will stop for gas....Oh yes...Where I am going.....I don't make them all up but just some of them.

Those aren't rules, Art. What I'm asking is, do dowsers push the brake pedal when they want to go forward, while everyone else has to press the gas? Do you signal left when you're turning right? Do you put water in your crankcase rather than oil? All these things are the same for each person, regardless of where they're driving or where they're going or who they are.

Why is dowsing different?

It is not to me....You seem to have a problem with the truth about dowsing.....Art

And again, you don't even know what dowsing is, so how can you know the truth about it?

 

[Oroblanco]

Why does dowsing not follow a set pattern of any kind? This is the question that remains unanswered.

According to Betz's study, dowsing does follow a set pattern. If you have the time, I suggest that you read the results, which are online. Of course that study was in-field, and for water, not "treasures" but water IS a treasure in its' own way.

This continuous debate has the earmarks of a mutual exercise in futility; for those who have seen dowsing/divining WORK, nothing anyone posts in a forum is going to convince them that what they saw with their own eyes is all "bunk"; conversely, for those who cannot believe dowsing/divining CAN work, nothing posted in a forum is going to convince them that it can.

As to why some people can do it, and some cannot, this should be so obvious as to not require any cogitation/debate - consider the "normal" abilities of human beings. Does every single human being have the exact same hearing range? Does every single human being have the exact same abilities of sight (depth perception, color variation perception, etc)? Does every single human being have the exact same sense of touch, of pain, of heat or cold, of balance, or even of the passing of time? Of course not. Even in the world of medicine, any pharmacist or doctor can tell you that no two people will react in the precise same manner to the same dose of medicine. Some people can see in the dark better than others, some can hear better, and so on. Whether dowsing is a form of intuition or some ordinary reaction in physics (as in electrical in nature) it should come as no surprise that some people would be more "sensitive" (to hidden bodies of water for example) than others.

The world of nature has been cited earlier with examples of abilities which science was not able to explain, in some cases was not even aware of - like elephants using ultra-low frequency sounds to communicate over great distances, frequencies so low that it is beyond normal human hearing range. There is no verbal argument that is going to convince the hard-nosed skeptic that there is something to dowsing, it is something that has to be seen to be believed; there is nothing the skeptic can argue that is going to convince a dowser that what he/she has seen with their own eyes, did not really happen.

I still think this test idea is interesting, but even if the dowsing subject is successful, it does not prove that he did it by dowsing - the test does not remove the possibility that the subject simply got lucky by guessing. Good luck and good hunting, hope you find the treasure that you seek.

Oroblanco

 

[aarthrj3811]

Where'd you get these rules from, Art?

From the Dictionary

These is no identification of dowsing, no real description since everyone seems to have their own rules, and definitely no theoretical description. Everyone has their own theory, but something with a hundred different theories does not have a theoretical explanation.

Your right but please remember that you talk about your Scentific Proof all the time. So where is it?

What class of natural phenomena does dowsing fall under?

How about being able to detect unknown objects using the signals generated by the objects. Is that natural enough?

It's been studied and found to be about the same as guessing.

Then there should be some proof of this somewhere one would think. So where is it?

Those aren't rules, Art. What I'm asking is, do dowsers push the brake pedal when they want to go forward, while everyone else has to press the gas? Do you signal left when you're turning right? Do you put water in your crankcase rather than oil? All these things are the same for each person, regardless of where they're driving or where they're going or who they are.

I see...Do you brake with your left foot or your right foot? Is your left hand or right hand at the top of the steering wheel? Is your seat position close to the steering or pushed back? Do your change your oil every 3000 miles?

And again, you don't even know what dowsing is, so how can you know the truth about it?

Wrong again.....I know what Dowsing is, I just don't know the exact way it works. That is the truth about Dowsing....

 

[ClonedSIM]

I still think this test idea is interesting, but even if the dowsing subject is successful, it does not prove that he did it by dowsing - the test does not remove the possibility that the subject simply got lucky by guessing. Good luck and good hunting, hope you find the treasure that you seek.

Oroblanco

I actually commented on the Betz test where you provided the link in the other thread. I forget the name, but I'm sure you'll find it.

I do have one question for you, though. Do you honestly think that someone could guess their way through Carl's test? I mean, do you think that someone could come in claiming to dowse then guess their way through to the end?

If someone passed the test, I would believe it was for his/her dowsing skill rather than just getting lucky.

 

[aarthrj3811]

I actually commented on the Betz test where you provided the link in the other thread. I forget the name, but I'm sure you'll find it.

I think you actually commented on The Barn Test test which keeps being refered to as the Betz testby Carl and Randi to confuse people....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

I actually commented on the Betz test where you provided the link in the other thread. I forget the name, but I'm sure you'll find it.

I think you actually commented on The Barn Test test which keeps being refered to as the Betz testby Carl and Randi to confuse people....Art

Go take a look at the "A Test For Sandsted" post if you'd like to know what I was talking about.

 

[Oroblanco]

af1733 wrote: I do have one question for you, though. Do you honestly think that someone could guess their way through Carl's test? I mean, do you think that someone could come in claiming to dowse then guess their way through to the end?


Yes, absolutely. For example we only need look at those who have correctly guessed the winning lottery numbers - they "got lucky" and GUESSED the numbers correctly. The odds against guessing correctly are high, however it is quite possible that a successful result would be from lucky guessing, (it happens or we would never have any lottery winners) and not from dowsing. If the person doing the test claimed to have dowsed (and got it right) by the guidelines of this test it does not rule out the possibility that the test subject simply guessed it right, whether swinging a plumb bob or a dead cat over their heads.

This may sound as if I do not believe dowsing works, which is incorrect; however this test does not exclude the possibility of lucky guessing, so can not prove that dowsing works. By the same token, I don't see how it can prove that dowsing does not work. It could prove that the test subject cannot successfully obtain the information (dates of the coins) or that the test subject did successfully obtain the information, but does not prove how. Either way it seems like it would be fun, so good luck and hope you have fun with it.

Oroblanco

 

[David Ritchie]

Dowsing does follow a set pattern, if you knew how dowsing worked you would know that.
Carl David Ritchie
cdrringo@sbcglobal.net

 

[ClonedSIM]

I still have to say that guessing one's way through the test seems so much more improbable that actually dowsing one's way through. Especially given the fact that the test is repeated a number of times. For someone to guess one coin's date is possible, but to guess all of the coin's dates? Simply astronomical, I'd say. To use your comparison, it's like hitting the lottery 10 times in a row, back-to-back.

Either way, since the test hasn't been completed, it's all just conjecture at this point.

 

[Oroblanco]

I agree the odds of guessing the dates correctly are terrifically high against it happening, but how can we exclude the possibility that is what happened, if the test subject is successful?

Oroblanco

 

[ClonedSIM]

I agree the odds of guessing the dates correctly are terrifically high against it happening, but how can we exclude the possibility that is what happened, if the test subject is successful?

Oroblanco

Oh, I'm not saying it can't happen at all, just that's it's terrificly unlikely.

Of course, if someone did dowse their way through the test, he would be very upset if someone accused him of actually guessing to pass....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI af, speaking of unlikelies / astronomical odds - why did humans evolve as they are , why do they exist in the first place?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A biased sample is one that is falsely taken to be typical of a population from which it is drawn


tropical Tramp

 

[ClonedSIM]

A biased sample is one that is falsely taken to be typical of a population from which it is drawn

tropical Tramp

Although this is true,

this

HI af, speaking of unlikelies / astronomical odds - why did humans evolve as they are , why do they exist in the first place?

tropical Tramp

is the reason you keep getting Ignored. What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

I mean, it's a great topic of discussion, but perhaps not here.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=af1733 linkDon't count on it, sweetie! Art is the most ADHD person I've even spoken to, and I'm convinced there just isn't enough Ritalin....
*********

Heck, share yours!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A biased sample is one that is falsely taken to be typical of a population from which it is drawn

Tropical Tramp

 

[angel_09]

As a dowser (who also believe and use electronics detectors), I would like to relate my procedures in dowsing:

1. I avoid touching any grounded metals as preparation before dowsing.
2. I measured the static voltage of my body by using a digital multimeter, where in my case 15 millivolts is the most my body can produce.
3. I insulate my body to the ground to avoid discharging the static voltage except to the rod that I'm using.
4. I relax my mind and make sure it is free from any thoughts or to the object I want to find.
5. The dowsing rod I'm using has sample of metal (or water) I want to find. Without these samples dowsing rod is ineffective.
6. Before dowsing, I'm closing my eyes and start to move 360 degrees from where I stand and let the rod work.
7. Once the rod reacted, I open my eyes to determine the location using straight line, then moving to the next quadrant, repeating the process.
7. The dowsing rod will give the exact location of the object by triangulation.
6. Once the exact location is found, the electronics detector will confirm the presence of the object and its depth (provided the detector is properly calibrated).
7. With this method, detecting time is reduced by 95%.

Angel_09