My Dowsing Test

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=af1733 How can you even pretend dowsing has anything at all to do with science if it down not follow some set pattern? Almost everything follows a definable or nearly predictable pattern, except for dowsing?
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Who even suggested that there wern't'? The problem is that we just don't know enough about it to formulate them, so each casts about seeking what works for them no matter how apparently wild..
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Let's for a moment say dowsing is a working thing, an actual concept that works. It would have a source, a root, that caused it to work. Just like everything else, it should be a stimulus/response reaction. IE: If I walk holding these rods, are
on with another theory That dowsing is only a concept with no evidence, no cause, and no scientific backing.
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So how and when was matter first made? A thing cannot exist without scientific testing? sheeeesh
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~~Operational definitions are inherently difficult — arguably, even impossible — to apply to mental entities, because these latter are generally understood to be accessible only to the individual who experiences them and are therefore not independently verifiable."
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Of course I can dowse! It's quite easy, just not very useful. - Carl
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Tropical Tramp

 

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[Oroblanco]

Well heck I am so slow I didn't think of the dry wood block with holes drilled in it to set the rods in - may just have to try that experiment! If the length of the wires to the hands is a problem I have some really tiny wire I can try - the capacitance of 30 ga wire for say six feet is going to be extremely tiny and shouldn't be a factor. Might even help by acting as 'antenna'.

I would like to suggest to Carl to withdraw that test offer for the $25k - for what if someone wins it, how would you feel about that person - would you no longer consider him/her a friend? I can't think of a friend I would care to sell off for $25k. Why not keep it just for fun?

I don't wish to beat the dead horse, I realize a hard-nosed skeptic is not going to ever accept such an idea as dowsing any more than UFOs, Bigfoot or fairies in the garden; however if we keep an open mind and study phenomena instead of just saying "it works" or "it cannot ever work" we learn things. Look at the strange mystery of elephant communications. For how many hundreds of years have human beings been working with elephants as beasts of burden, war-engines etc yet only a few years ago it was discovered that elephants have a long-distance communication ability, using ultra-low-frequency sounds that we humans cannot hear! Their super-low voices carry over tens of miles, allowing elephants to communicate over vast areas without being able to see each other. When we have people saying they are seeing something remarkable, it IS worth studying it - yes I have heard how worthless eyewitnesses are etc but these people are experiencing something and I doubt that it is self-delusion as some have proposed. If you are the type of person who absolutely cannot accept that science does not understand absolutely everything (and thus by extension that dowsing cannot exist) then why bother arguing with people who are dowsing? To enlighten them? For I can not accept that dowsing does not work, at least I know it works on water as I have seen it and done it - no expert by any means, but for someone to tell me that what I saw, I didn't really see is a waste of their effort. I might as well argue to that type of skeptic that the Earth does not revolve around the Sun, regardless of what you have seen every single day!

Anyway sorry for the rant, I think this experiment using a wood block and a bucket of water is interesting enough to try it! If it works or doesn't work, will anyone believe me? Somehow I doubt it, but it should either prove that electrical idea or disprove it for my satisfaction.

Oroblanco

 

[xupz]

I don't wish to beat the dead horse, I realize a hard-nosed skeptic is not going to ever accept such an idea as dowsing any more than UFOs

Ah yes the irony, as a skeptic, even statistically speaking, the odds of there not being aliens somewhere in the universe are about as high as a dowsers chance of success

 

[Oroblanco]

xupz wrote:the irony, as a skeptic, even statistically speaking, the odds of there not being aliens somewhere in the universe are about as high as a dowsers chance of success

Well dang then statistically speaking, there cannot be any alien beings in the universe - because I have seen dowsing for water done successfully, on more than one occasion, and have done it myself and it works. It may not work every single time, but then what does? However the statistical odds that intelligent life exists not only elsewhere in the universe but in our own galaxy are so extremely high, so...the only problem is in PROVING that dowsing works, or PROVING that it does not work.

There has been a lot of banter about testing etc - well this seems like it should not be any difficulty for the skeptic or believer - try it for yourself, if it doesn't work, then that should suffice to prove to you that it doesn't work - if it works, likewise that should suffice to prove that it works for you. Otherwise we end up bickering and even drifting towards the nasty in our posts, which could even end some friendships. To the skeptic, want to prove that dowsing doesn't work, to me personally? (Which would appear to be the purpose of arguing about it, to prove the point to the readers here) It is not possible to prove or disprove by internet - we will have to get together some time and you can show me how it does not work.

By the same reasoning of the skeptic as to why dowsing for water cannot work, a magnetic compass cannot work, because the magnetic field of the earth is so incredibly weak and is dampened by so much non-magnetic earth, that it could not possibly move a metal needle set on a point. The inherent inertia of the metal needle, coupled with the friction of the contact with the support point, plus the resistance of the air around the needle would be too much for the weak magnetic field of Earth to overcome. Magnetic fields tend to be quite short-range after all!

Oroblanco

 

[Jean310]

xupz wrote:the irony, as a skeptic, even statistically speaking, the odds of there not being aliens somewhere in the universe are about as high as a dowsers chance of success

Well dang then statistically speaking, there cannot be any alien beings in the universe - because I have seen dowsing for water done successfully, on more than one occasion, and have done it myself and it works. It may not work every single time, but then what does? However the statistical odds that intelligent life exists not only elsewhere in the universe but in our own galaxy are so extremely high, so...the only problem is in PROVING that dowsing works, or PROVING that it does not work.

There has been a lot of banter about testing etc - well this seems like it should not be any difficulty for the skeptic or believer - try it for yourself, if it doesn't work, then that should suffice to prove to you that it doesn't work - if it works, likewise that should suffice to prove that it works for you. Otherwise we end up bickering and even drifting towards the nasty in our posts, which could even end some friendships. To the skeptic, want to prove that dowsing doesn't work, to me personally? (Which would appear to be the purpose of arguing about it, to prove the point to the readers here) It is not possible to prove or disprove by internet - we will have to get together some time and you can show me how it does not work.

By the same reasoning of the skeptic as to why dowsing for water cannot work, a magnetic compass cannot work, because the magnetic field of the earth is so incredibly weak and is dampened by so much non-magnetic earth, that it could not possibly move a metal needle set on a point. The inherent inertia of the metal needle, coupled with the friction of the contact with the support point, plus the resistance of the air around the needle would be too much for the weak magnetic field of Earth to overcome. Magnetic fields tend to be quite short-range after all!

Oroblanco

I encourage you to do the experiments you propose. It should be educational for you.... If it seems that not too many of the rest of us are that interested, it's because you are heading down a path we are all very familiar with and we already know what you will find when you get there. But, please do your tests as planned.

Jean

 

[aarthrj3811]

There has been a lot of banter about testing etc - well this seems like it should not be any difficulty for the skeptic or believer - try it for yourself, if it doesn't work, then that should suffice to prove to you that it doesn't work - if it works, likewise that should suffice to prove that it works for you. Otherwise we end up bickering and even drifting towards the nasty in our posts, which could even end some friendships. To the skeptic, want to prove that dowsing doesn't work, to me personally? (Which would appear to be the purpose of arguing about it, to prove the point to the readers here) It is not possible to prove or disprove by internet - we will have to get together some time and you can show me how it does not work.

If you notice only one Skeptic has said he could not Dowse. This is a year on this board. Then he told use he could only find the unknown object 2 out of 10 times...He beat the odds of random chance so he should be a Dowser... They will not try dowsing as it would burst the little bubble they have bulit around them......Art

 

[Peg Leg]

It always amazes me how some people always seem to post reasons why dowsing will not work and others post the same reasons why it should work.
Let me say RIGHT HERE and now that I have NO idea how dowsing works but I can say that there is no reason why anyone should use wires or coarhangers or L rods or whatever.
This is the way I do it and why.
When I dowse for SILVER I use SILVER.
When I dowse for Spainish coins I use a Spanish coin or a small piece from a Spanish coin. I make the piece of silver into a Plum Bob with a point at the end and a place to attach the other end to a piece of WHITE thread taken directly from the spool. I aways wash my hands with cold water before I handle anything.
But first I lay out a map or drawing.
I then wash my hands. Then I pass my hand over the map with fingers open. I do a scan with my eyes shut. When I pass over a spot of interest I am able to sense a change in tempureture. The center of my palm gets warmer. This tells me that there is something of interest so I save this map for later dowsing.
Since I am interested in locating a shipwreck I start dowsing for cannons but in order to do this I use a piece of iron that came from an actual shipwreck cannon. Again I wash this iron piece in cold water. I do not want anyones elses thoughts contimating this piece.
I then take a fresh spool of white thread and remove about 6 inches and cut this off and throw it in the trash. Then I cut another piece of thread to about 8 inches long. I attach the piece of iron to the thread. I then make a slow pass over the map and I pay very close attention to the plum bob. I am looking for some type of reaction. I then make another pass over the map but this time very very slowly over any area that I got a reaction from on the first pass. I can then see and feel the reaction take place. When the plum bob gets near the right spot it will appear to stop. If this area is right the plum bob will start to move in a slow circle and as the plum bob stays over this area it will begin to go faster until it is now covering an area about the size of a half dollar. You can then put an X on the spot.
Now the work begins. You will have to enlarge this spot about 10 times larger. Then you can now start dowsing for Silver or Gold.
The depth of the water will not make a bit of difference nor the depth of the mud, silt or sand make any difference. WHY this is I have no idea but I know that depth makes no difference.
One more thing. When you start looking for silver or gold you must use clean fresh thread and you must wash your hands ever time you switch Plum Bobs or Pointer.
Well my friends that is how I do it and it works for me.
Here is a little something else of interest.
SOMETIMES you may come across areas that actually draw the pointer to the spot. I think this may happen when there is a large mass of the material you are looking for HOWEVER I have never had this happen when looking for IRON but it has happended when dowsing for Silver or Gold.
Well thats all I have to say about how this works for me. It may work for you and it may not but I see no reason for a single strand of wire but to each their own.
Peg Leg

 

[ClonedSIM]

There has been a lot of banter about testing etc - well this seems like it should not be any difficulty for the skeptic or believer - try it for yourself, if it doesn't work, then that should suffice to prove to you that it doesn't work - if it works, likewise that should suffice to prove that it works for you. Otherwise we end up bickering and even drifting towards the nasty in our posts, which could even end some friendships. To the skeptic, want to prove that dowsing doesn't work, to me personally? (Which would appear to be the purpose of arguing about it, to prove the point to the readers here) It is not possible to prove or disprove by internet - we will have to get together some time and you can show me how it does not work.

If you notice only one Skeptic has said he could not Dowse. This is a year on this board. Then he told use he could only find the unknown object 2 out of 10 times...He beat the odds of random chance so he should be a Dowser... They will not try dowsing as it would burst the little bubble they have bulit around them......Art

There's a fundamental flaw in your logic, Art. (as if anyone had a question about that) Skeptics don't have a bubble built around them. We're not the ones that have spent years training ourselves to make the rods move in a certain way, we're not the ones who will look foolish when it's confirmed that dowsing can't help you locate an actual unknown treasure. We just use common sense to look at a thing and see it for what it really is.

 

[dg39]

After looking at the past posts.. it looks like the score is believers---O... non believers ---O. Its almost like a religious argument or a no hitter for both teams. Amusing to follow. Frankly I don't believe it works and I have friends who do.
But then I believe levitation can work, So-o-o, I think I have contributed as much as anyone else, which is?

 

[Peg Leg]

af1733,
You are so full of yourself.
Some where I POASTED that I would do ANY TEST anyone wanted me to do BUT under my guidelines.
So if you can find what I had to say then lets get it on. I live in Florida and will not have to even leave my house to prove what I say I can do I CAN do. I have even said the way I will do it.
Peg leg

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=af1733 link=***********
Why is there supposed to be a set of rules when no-one can even define it yet?
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NO answer?

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Almost everything follows a definable or nearly predictable pattern, except for dowsing?

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Who says it doesn't?? maybe we just haven't developed them yet.
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on with another theory That dowsing is only a concept with no evidence, no cause, and no scientific backing.
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So how and when was matter first made? We have no evidence nor scientific backing, just a few unprovable theories, same as with dowsing at this point.

Resurrected Tropical Tramp

 

[ClonedSIM]

af1733,
You are so full of yourself.
Some where I POASTED that I would do ANY TEST anyone wanted me to do BUT under my guidelines.

I'm so happy you POASTED this. Anyone who reads it, except for dowsers I suppose, would laugh right in your face.

You can do any test, but under your own guidelines? Isn't that a bit like saying, "I can find a cache of gold bars, but you have to turn around while I dig a hole and toss in some gold bars."

You might find a dowser willing to offer you a test under this condition, but no one else.

How about this? You can take any test to prove that dowsing works under your own guidelines, but then I get to take a test of your design under my own guidelines to prove that dowsing does not work. Sound fair?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey af1733....Peg Leg is correct...The facts are that you can not prove anything about Dowsing unless we do the testing. We have the edge so we pick the test. If you don't agree with this idea ...do your own test....Can you tell me why dowsing doesn't work?///Art

 

[Jean310]

Can you tell me why dowsing doesn't work?///Art

Yes, we can, and many already have, but you don't accept anything that is said to you (or understand it); so why should we bother?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Yes, we can, and many already have, but you don't accept anything that is said to you (or understand it); so why should we bother?

Jean310....Excuses..Excuses....Yes, we can....Put it in writting....Not numbers...Art

 

[Jean310]

Yes, we can, and many already have, but you don't accept anything that is said to you (or understand it); so why should we bother?

Jean310....Excuses..Excuses....Yes, we can....Put it in writting....Not numbers...Art

If I put it in writting for you, I still don't think you would acceptting it or understtandding it.

I'm not getting paid to educate people on a forum. You had your chance once, and I guess you blew it, but it's not too late to pursue a GED.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Yes, we can, and many already have, but you don't accept anything that is said to you (or understand it); so why should we bother?

Jean310....Excuses..Excuses....Yes, we can....Put it in writting....Not numbers...Art

If I put it in writting for you, I still don't think you would acceptting it or understtandding it.

I'm not getting paid to educate people on a forum. You had your chance once, and I guess you blew it, but it's not too late to pursue a GED.

No way, Jean! Getting an education would undermine his skills at dowsing, once he understands how the world actually works...

 

[Oroblanco]

Getting an education would undermine his skills at dowsing

So anyone who dowses must therefore be of low education or none, based on their spelling skills?

 

[xupz]

Getting an education would undermine his skills at dowsing

So anyone who dowses must therefore be of low education or none, based on their spelling skills?

One can make that inference from the super extremely raw data. Personally, I think if I had a large enough sample of each of the populations you would see that old + uneducated would be highly correlated with dowsers, not always true, just highly correlated . You can infer from the correlation what you wish. Dowsers may want to take the time to spin it as because they're old, they're wiser or more experienced in dowsing, while because they're mostly uneducated it hasn't corrupted their ability to think with an "open" mind. (you're welcome dowsers, doubt you could have figured out that spin on your own). Then again you have the obvious conclusion...

 

[Oroblanco]

Quote from: Oroblanco on Today at 07:29:48 PM
Getting an education would undermine his skills at dowsing

So anyone who dowses must therefore be of low education or none, based on their spelling skills?
Huh

One can make that inference from the super extremely raw data. Personally, I think if I had a large enough sample of each of the populations you would see that old + uneducated would be highly correlated with dowsers, not always true, just highly correlated Wink. You can infer from the correlation what you wish. Dowsers may want to take the time to spin it as because they're old, they're wiser or more experienced in dowsing, while because they're mostly uneducated it hasn't corrupted their ability to think with an "open" mind. (you're welcome dowsers, doubt you could have figured out that spin on your own). Then again you have the obvious conclusion... Lips Sealed

Right. So lets see, I dowse, so ipso-facto I must then be an old, un-educated moron. So we understand each other, you don't know squat about the education level of myself or, I would venture, that of half of the members of T-net. You are sure free to assume whatever you like. Have a good one, done wasting time here.