MYSTERY ROCK

[Sodabob]

Howdy

I haven't been around for a while and had to re-register with a different name. Anyway, I'm working on a real mystery and could use some help. If I can remember how to post pictures, please notice the carved images in what locals call "The Mystery Rock." I have been asked by our local Historical Society / Museum to research it, and depending on the results here, might write an article for them in their newsletter. The rock has already been examined by a group of Archaeologist but they are baffled as to what the carvings might be or represent. The only thing they determined with any certainty is that the carvings were done with some type of steel tool such as a chisel. As for the date it was carved, they are baffled about that as well. Its located in a brushy area about 100 feet away from an old State highway and about 100 yards from an old Railroad line that was built in 1916. In the area there is also an old U.S. military encampment that was built in 1940-41 and sold to the County around 1947-48. The two most prominent theories are ...

1. The rock was carved by a Railroad worker
2. The rock was carved by a member of the Military

But regardless of who carved it or when, we are trying to determine what the carvings might be or represent? The archaeologist said they don't recognize the pattern and are pretty sure they are not Aztec or anything like that, and that they might be random that only the "carver" knows the meaning of.

If you have any theories or recognize the pattern as something specific, please let me know and I will pass the information on to the Historical Society. The rock is located about 50 miles east of San Diego along old Highway 94.

Thanks in advance to those who participate in possibly solving a mystery that has had locals baffled for several years.

Sodabob ... a.k.a. Sodabottlebob and Sodapopbob


The rock is about 6 feet long, 3 feet wide, and about 2 feet thick. Most of the carving are on one end of the rock but in some places continue over the side. The local museum has permits to move it next Spring but will need a backhoe to lift and transport it.

 

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[Madmox]

Air supply would be easy if one was so inclined.

View attachment 1691328

Way too much material to remove with Dremel bits.
The rock I carved was scaled to the size of Dremel work.
Only used two bits ... completely wore out the larger diamond bit ... it's worn down to steel and wants to make sparks.
The smaller bit has a little life left, but the sharpness of its edge is gone.

You'd go through a lot of bits ... lots ... to cut the grooves on the large rock.
The tools need to scale with the amount of rock to be removed and the Dremel is the right tool for small work, not something this large.

Haha. A home sized air compressor would never be able to run something like a jackhammer. Hell the ones shown will barely run an air wrench. We are talking one of the ones on a trailer that has an 1 1/4 air line. Maybe then you could supply enough air to one of those hogs. Not to mention that would still necessitate it have happened in the fairly recent past. It is “possible” that something like that could have been around and it could have been done by workers when the highway went in. But ehhhh I can imagine the foreman getting pretty pissed if they were doing it during the day or if the heavy equipment was fired up at night (if the road crew had a camp) which I would also doubt.

 

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[Sodabob]

I appreciate all of the recent comments and thank those who posted them. Like I have said in the past; every little bit helps. As much as I would like to declare this mystery as SOLVED, neither my opinions and speculations, or those of others, have provided enough indisputable evidence to reach that conclusion. And if I did declare it as solved based on the current evidence and say the rock was carved by railroad workers in 1915, then someone would likely ask me how I knew that for certain and would probably want some type of proof to support that declaration. But as it stands now, I can not provide that proof and don't know anyone who can. So I feel I have no other option than to keep looking for answers in the hope that something eventually presents itself that will solve the mystery once and for all. If anyone who reads this has the proof that's needed, please share it with us and I will put this thread to bed. In the meantime I guess I will just keep plugging along and hopefully stumble onto something indisputable that everyone can agree on. As much as I dislike repeating this, the one thing more than anything else I'm having a problem with is the fact that no one knew of the rock's existence until six years ago. Even some of the locals I have been discussing this with think its possible the rock could have been there for 50 years or more and not discovered until just recently. But the truth is, they can offer no proof to support their opinions. All they have to go on is pure speculation. I'm sorry but at this juncture its going to take a lot more than speculation and best guess scenarios to convince me the rock has been there for more than about 15 years - and possibly even less than that!

 

[Sodabob]

Another Mystery?

The utility poles in the attached pic end where you see the ground cable and are located about 100 feet below the grinding holes. There is a 1968 date tag nailed to pole in the foreground. None of the poles show any evidence of ever having cross arms and I currently have no idea why it just ends where it does. Nor do I currently know exactly what purpose it served. The lines you see are stranded cables and not wires and appear to be for some type of support. It goes all of the way to the old highway. At the lower end its about 100 feet east of the Mystery Rock. But regardless of the poles purpose, the main reason I'm posting it is to point out just one example of the activity that took place in the immediate area of the Mystery Rock. Because of the 1968 date tag, I'm assuming that was when the poles were either set or last inspected. If the crew who set the poles happened to stumble onto the Mystery Rock during the project, I have to believe they would have told someone and that their discovery would have spread like wildfire. In 1968 I was a junior at the nearby high school and would likely have heard about the discovery if word of it had been circulating. But no one I know (and I have talked with a lot of people who grew up in the area) ever heard about the rock until just a few years ago.

 

[Sodabob]

I posted this pic earlier but thought I'd post it again to reiterate how much in the open the Mystery Rock is. The rock is the one you see by itself in the lower center. The old highway is about 100 feet to the left (north) of the rock. Between the rock and the highway is an open area large enough to drive a tank through. This is another example of why I am having a problem believing no one ever came across the rock if it had been there (carved) more than a few years ago. The next time I'm down there (possibly today) I will take some pictures while standing on the old highway and show you how the rock can be seen from that location and easily walked to.

 

[Plug N Play]

Haha. A home sized air compressor would never be able to run something like a jackhammer. Hell the ones shown will barely run an air wrench. We are talking one of the ones on a trailer that has an 1 1/4 air line. Maybe then you could supply enough air to one of those hogs. Not to mention that would still necessitate it have happened in the fairly recent past.

The compressors are an example of a small way to carry an air supply to a remote site.
Yeah, you wouldn't want to run anything very large.
Rotary tools can run efficiently with less air.

 

[Sodabob]

P.S.

For those who are thinking there might have been brush growing around the rock at some point and concealed it, all I can say is I can think of no example anywhere where brush successfully grows under a live oak tree like the one growing over the Mystery Rock. There is something about the foot-deep bed of decaying oak leaves that prevents brush from taking root. Just about the only thing that will grow under live oak trees is grass, and even that is somewhat sparse.

 

[Sodabob]

This probably doesn't have anything to do with anything, but I still find it interesting. While looking around for clues that might explain the design on the Rock, I started looking at Kumeyaay stuff again and discovered that a lot of their grinding holes are found in groups of three and form a sort of triangle. Of course a lot of the grinding hole sites have a lot more than three holes, but there were enough of the three-hole examples to spark my interest. This is not to say the three holes or circles on the Y symbol are directly related, but at this point I really don't know what to think about the design and am open to any possibility that might explain it.

Here are several examples of the three-hole motars, all of which are located in southern California and/or San Diego county, starting with those located near the Mystery Rock ...
















I began to wonder if the the number three or triangles had any special significance to the Kumeyaay and discovered numerous references saying their dwellings in the mountains were triangular shaped. Why it was just in the mountains I don't know, but suspect it was because of the occasional and sometimes heavy spring and summer thunderstorms. Here's just one of the references I found about their triangular shaped dwellings.




I'm not sure if this is an example of a triangular shaped dwelling, but the picture was taken in the Campo area in 1926

 

[Sodabob]

I just ordered a set of these diamond-type drill bits and will use my electric drill to experiment with on some granite rocks in my backyard. I'm not sure what size the pic will be until I post it, but as near as I can determine the largest bit has a diameter about the size of a dime. They were described as being ideal for carving into stone and similar objects.

 

[Sodabob]

I made it down to the Rock today and here are the pics I took to show its location in relation to ...


I was standing on the south shoulder of the old highway when I took this pic. I paced off the distance and the Rock (marked with a yellow X) is 60 feet away. Notice the access opening is wide enough to drive a vehicle through.




I set my camera on the Rock in this pic. It faces north to the old highway (marked with a red X)




I was standing in the center of the old highway directly across from the Rock when I took this pic. I paced off the distance and the green store you see is 450 feet away




The tourist train only runs on weekends and I was able get this picture of it while it was crossing the 1915 bridge




Hopefully these pics will give you an idea of what I mean when I say the Rock is not hidden and is easy to find and get to. Its also the main reason why I'm having a problem believing it could have remained undiscovered if it had been there for 50 years or more as some people think. Which is also why I'm leaning toward the possibility it was carved more recently and with some type of power tool(s).

 

[Sodabob]

According to USPS Tracking, the diamond bits I ordered should arrive today. If it doesn't rain after they arrive, I will try and conduct my experiment later today, but may have to wait until the forecasted rain storm passes through. But regardless of when I do it, I will be sure and post the results. If the results are not satisfactory, my next experiment will be with rotary wheels, which I have been researching and am confident will do the job if the drill bits don't. Here's some of what I have been looking at ...

Various Tools - Just about everything and then some for sculpting stone and rock

stone carving tools

Example from above link




YouTube - Demonstrates using rotary wheel to create Mortar and Pestle out of a granite rock




(To Be Continued)

 

[Plug N Play]

Bob,

I have a theory concerning this rock.
It gets involved.

Would you like to go through it step by step, and we'll pick it apart together, ?

Or, would you like to hear it, and we'll go back and pick it apart afterwards ?

 

[Sodabob]

Bob,

I have a theory concerning this rock.
It gets involved.

Would you like to go through it step by step, and we'll pick it apart together, ?

Or, would you like to hear it, and we'll go back and pick it apart afterwards ?

Sure, go for it. And while you're posting I'll be outside experimenting with the bits that just arrived.

 

[Sodabob]

I should have said the last one back is a rotten egg - but I won't (Lol) It took longer to set up / clean up and take some pics than it did drilling into the rock. It definitely wouldn't be my method of choice on a design as large as what's on the Mystery Rock, but it could be done with a lot of time and drill bits. However, it did inspire me to move on to phase two with the rotary wheels that I expect will go much faster and easier. I also need to get or borrow a rotary tool like the one in the YouTube video. That way I can grip it better and have more control. But otherwise, I still think the Mystery Rock was carved with some type of power tool and anticipate the rotary wheel to be just the thing to do it with. Time will tell.


I selected a granite rock in my back yard that best matched the hardness of the Mystery Rock and drilled a Y about 6 inches long. The drilling itself took about 15 minutes. Then I cleaned out the dust with a brush and water.

Before - Notice the patch of moss/lichen on the left is black




After - The width of the Y is about that of my little finger - Notice the moss/lichen turned greenish when I put water on it

 

[Plug N Play]

 

[Sodabob]

Thanks - Good suggestion. I will try them if the cutting wheels don't work. But what I really need more than anything is a side-grip rotary-type drill for more control. But there's no way I'm going to buy one just for an experiment. I'm pretty sure I know someone who has one and who will loan it to me. I'll let you know how it goes when I'm done. In the meantime, here's another clue for you all "The Walrus was Paul" - Oops. wrong clue!

The clue I'm actually referring to hasn't been fully addressed yet and pertains to the carved out area I indicated below with an arrow pointing to it. In case you thought this was just another triangle like the other two, its not. Its kind of hard to see in this pic, but its actually more of a 'ledge' with a rounded bottom. What I find interesting about it is that whoever carved the Rock could just have easily carved another triangle but didn't. For some reason they intentionally made this one different with the little ledge and rounded bottom. It kind of reminds me of an open mouth, but other than that I really can't say what it is or why it was carved on the side of the Rock ...

 

[Plug N Play]

I'm curious to see how your experiments go, Bob.
All we can do is experiment and try to discover little pieces of a larger puzzle.

In academic circles, what I'll try to explain would take two refined volumes sitting on a shelf.
I've only got 15 minutes.

We are sitting right where we started ... the meaning to this rock still remains in the head of the crafter.

Experiment Proposal > Put oneself into the head of the craftsman ... limit myself to only 2 tools (I believe this person had two tools, but was very experienced with them, in some other career) ... attempt to follow the carving in the proper order the crafter took ... do NOT attempt "artistic", (I believe this was mostly his experiment to see what his two tools could do ... did he have a preconceived meaning in mind, or did he make it up along the way ? Well now, that's the mystery we may never know.

Everything I'm saying is confined by those parameters and represents about 20 tiny experiments all in one.
The "NOSE" was the last experiment I needed to feel I'd been complete in the task.

It's my fault, by the time I cleaned up and decided to take a picture, it was getting dark and the lighting was bad.
I tried to capture as many aspects as I could. In the red square there IS a nose, deep and curved in a similar manner as the original. It was done by using the smaller of the two bits, ... make an identical circle to the above ones and then carefully wiggle it side to side to enlarge it and turn it into a half-circle, at the same time.

One of the more interesting experiments was the - triangle, sunken square with a sunken circle remnant still evident - That one had to be laid out precisely to follow the path the carver took. It proved doable. I know how he did it with his two tools and the path he took. It's not an issue. The tiny square at the top of the key ... that was a careful matter of combining the large bit and the small bit ... requiring switching back and forth between bits, ... (my style is to do as much as I can Without having to switch ... there were a few spots on this pattern that FORCED me to switch back and forth... no problem, but I'm pretty certain he/she had to do the same to achieve such clean consistent grooves throughout this work.

Side light > I'm pretty sure he began with one of the top water cuts. You see what cut you get with your tool ... hmmm? okay let's call it 5 inches ... try a vee ... hmmm ... let's try a chevron ... neat.

But, is that water or mountains ? ... don't know ... needs a second zig zag to define water.
By now, he knows he can do quite a bit with his tool ... not artistic, but let's see if we can get shapes from the bottom of our wave ... oh, yeah, we can do squares, triangles, our second tool is going to give us circles ... we have the basics to try something abstract ... the key, the mystery, the face, ? ... we've come clear around to where we started ... was there a meaning or was he just trying out a more advanced shape. We may never know.

What we do know is that, for some reason, he stopped. There's plenty of good rock, ripe and ready to continue ... for whatever reason, they stopped. It's a little bit odd that someone with a preconceived idea would stop so abruptly ... was the rest another day that didn't happen ? ... was he satisfied he could make designs, and that's all he wanted to know, back to work? ... We may never know. It IS odd that the design stops so abruptly.

I gotta sum this up, ... I'm happy with my experiment. I lean towards this having been done in one afternoon setting, though I wouldn't question an overnight camper who added a little the next day. This wasn't a long term, slow tedious process, it was done precisely, rapidly, and modernly. Nothing more than hunches ... but, I lean even more in that direction, now that I was able to play with the process.

Oh ... again, my pictures were horrible ... this rock is quite tall, the white lines delineate the edge. I tried to start with a rock I had, pick an edge similar to yours, slightly bash down only the long right hand edge, such as yours ... (notice how it extends down past the carving ?) ... clue ? were they planning on going on ?

 

[Sodabob]

Very good analysis with a lot of the same observations / ideas I have been thinking about, especially that it might have been an unfinished work. One thing I might add is, if I had carved the Rock I would have included my initials or something similar to mark it as having been done by me - such as a huge Y to indicate either my first or last name. And if in fact that's what the Y represents, my gut tells me its more likely the first letter of a LAST NAME than the first letter of a first name. Maybe! Who knows! I don't! But you can be sure I have been searching for clues regarding last names that start with a Y

 

[Sodabob]

What would a discussion about a mysterious stone carving be without at least a brief mention of the ...

Masonic / Freemasons

Especially when you consider that some of their symbolism include ...


Octagons






Trinity




Sort of like those on the Mystery Rock

 

[Sodabob]

Plus ...

Yahweh

 

[Sodabob]

Since my last post two days ago I have been researching possible connections between the design on the Rock and the Freemasons. Even though I have not found a definite connection yet, I found just enough for me to contact two branches of the Freemasons organization to see what they thought about it. I have not heard back from either one of them yet but will let you know when I do.

At this juncture I don't know which is more mysterious - the Rock itself or the seemingly endless variety of Freemason symbols and their various meanings. Trying to decipher and understand their symbols is a challenge unto itself and something I have tried to do but probably will never figure out or fully understand. Here is just one example that influenced me enough to contact the Freemasons. Its kind of complicated but involves the rounding of a square ...

Such as the area I circled in red



And this from a Freemason website



Which led to this from another Freemason website. It too involves certain aspects of squaring a circle using what is referred to as the "Vitruvian Man." The drawing on the left was by Giacomo Andrea and was later expounded on by the drawing on the right by Leonardo Da Vinci. Both drawings are from the same time period during the 1400s.



Crazy? Of course! But who knows? I don't! Just trying my best to figure it out!