Need help with find

[djbr54]

Found this buried at the beach. Set in 14 k gold so the weight is not much help but it is 21.9 grams. About the size of half dollar. Any help appreciated.

 

[Chug And Red]

Looks like a hammered coin put into a Keeper Some one should be able to identify it for you soon hh Chug

 

[trdking]

The ones that are found set with a gold bezel are almost always fakes. This one with the crack looks familiar. Someone will post the site you buy these from I don't remember it.

Cheers and welcome!

 

[ARC]

The ones that are found set with a gold bezel are almost always fakes.

Actually this is not the case.

 

[Hawks88]

Welcome to tnet from Niagara Falls. Nice find. Congrats

 

[CASPER-2]

The ones that are found set with a gold bezel are almost always fakes. This one with the crack looks familiar. Someone will post the site you buy these from I don't remember it.

Cheers and welcome!

Maybe out in Cali - most of the ones in Fla. that are set in real gold - are actually off Fla. wrecks - they sell them at Mel Fisher museums and usually with a certificate - almost every quality jewelry shop in the Keys carry a bunch of real ones also set in gold
they do make some copies - but those are usually made from silver ingots found from those wrecks around Fla.

 

[CASPER-2]

... and usually have to have the word copy on them if they are

 

[djbr54]

Why do you say Cali? Does it not look like a Florida wreck cob? Do you think it’s a 4 reale? Thanks

 

[Diver_Down]

It is real and if my interpretation of the assayer is correct, then it is quite rare. It is an 8R. With the heavy loss from corrosion, the weight combined with the mount isn't a concern. What you have is a very early Potosi piece minted during the reign of King Phillip III. The assayer - I'm seeing the top of the assayer mark clearly round, but the lower corner at 5 o'clock on the assayer mark looks like the remnant of a tail on a Q. If so, then the assayer was Agustin de la Quadra who used the mark from 1613-1616. There is no date on the early Potosi pieces as they were created without one. They only began to use a date in 1617.

No provable provenance, but it likely from the Atocha.

 

[djbr54]

Thanks for the information.

 

[Hughett]

I hope it’s real!!

 

[trdking]

See I told you they would chime in I actually know nothing about these, being from California, we seldom see them. This statement is now fairly obvious

 

[djbr54]

And I almost pulled it out and threw it in my scrap silver pile and scrapped the gold bezel

 

[ARC]

It is real and if my interpretation of the assayer is correct, then it is quite rare. It is an 8R. With the heavy loss from corrosion, the weight combined with the mount isn't a concern. What you have is a very early Potosi piece minted during the reign of King Phillip III. The assayer - I'm seeing the top of the assayer mark clearly round, but the lower corner at 5 o'clock on the assayer mark looks like the remnant of a tail on a Q. If so, then the assayer was Agustin de la Quadra who used the mark from 1613-1616. There is no date on the early Potosi pieces as they were created without one. They only began to use a date in 1617.

No provable provenance, but it likely from the Atocha.

I thought the same... BUT... I think PRE Atocha.. perhaps Margarita.

The reason I say this is the bezel and lack of "TSI" mark.

 

[ARC]

And I almost pulled it out and threw it in my scrap silver pile and scrapped the gold bezel

DONT DO THAT !

 

[Diver_Down]

I thought the same... BUT... I think PRE Atocha.. perhaps Margarita.

The reason I say this is the bezel and lack of "TSI" mark.

Margarita and Atocha sank in the same year - 1622. There really is no way to prove any provenance. My guess of Atocha is just based on the time period the piece was minted and the prevalence of the market saturation with Atocha pieces. Regardless of the origin of the wreck it was salvaged from, it is a legit piece of 8. And if my interpretation of the assayer mark is correct, then it is a rare piece.

 

[ARC]

Margarita and Atocha sank in the same year - 1622. There really is no way to prove any provenance. My guess of Atocha is just based on the time period the piece was minted and the prevalence of the market saturation with Atocha pieces. Regardless of the origin of the wreck it was salvaged from, it is a legit piece of 8. And if my interpretation of the assayer mark is correct, then it is a rare piece.

I know when they went down. lol ... heh

That is not what I was saying... ITS NOT an Atocha piece... Unless its a copy made from the bars... otherwise it would definitely be marked.

Margartita was found a whole 5 years before Atocha... the bezels were one offed in those days by only a few local guys.

I do know a little about Mel's stuff... been a fan since I was a kid.

notice my avatar.

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[cuzcosquirrel]

It's supposed to be a 1622 wreck coin, from what I can see, like a grade 2 coin. It's hard to interpret what is going on with the bezel and the coin. I think he is saying that the bezel setting does not match the ones put on Fisher recovery coins. It's going to be hard to get down to the details based on the picture, and finding it on the beach. Having the gold purity mark struck on the flat metal makes it look like a really quick job someone did. I would think if it was one of the generic fakes, it would have more detail in the face. It has an odd ticking outline to the reverse design, and these outlines tend to date the coins. I'll go look it up.

 

[djbr54]

I have a couple questions if you don’t mind. What is the best grade? Would it be 1. And on the assayed, If it’s not a Q then it would be an O, is there an assayed with an O? I thank you and everyone for there help. Although I have a cob set in gold from an Atocha silver bar, I never found one, let alone in a gold bezel. Thanks again Dennis

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

It's tending to line up with assayer Q. Its hard to see some of the parts. There would not be a V next to the P from RVM if it was a T coin. The low I from india on the reverse lines up almost perfectly with a dated T coin I looked at from 1619. It's close to the M in the crown variety, of which some were found on the Atocha (S-P17; KM-10; CT-124) but there are a number of differences, as in the cross is bent the other way and the bottom of the castle is not covered up. Tails on the lions look correct, but the elements point it as being from a different set of dies, using some of the same punches Q used.

1616-1617 It lines up with assayer Q. Kind of a rare coin.

Look at some old Sedwick catalogs and you will find a variety of them, including one that is pretty close to this.