Need to know what is here

[Bigdogdad]

Here are some pictures from a dig I did today. I am curious as to what the dowsers on the forum think of this site. My questions are. Do you think there is something valuable at this spot. If so what is it? How deep is it? Where is it? I was not allowed to keep this hole open. The sand and water mixture kept pouring in from under all sides of my box. In retrospect I should have had a well point system in to keep the ground dry. I am going back tomorrow to finish smoothing off the area. The rental backhoe is still available. I am considering trying to keep digging. Suggestions?

As far as the different dowsers and styles on here, I always give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I don't think any one is trying to scam or mislead people asking for dowsing requests. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt. If a deep-seeking metal detector gives a reading that does not guarantee that there is treasure or for that matter deep metal. If a GPR shows an object that does not mean it is anything of value. I consider all aspects of a particular site. History, probability of something buried in the past. 2-box hits/no hits. GPR readings. Dowsing hits. Remote sensing hits. LRL hits. Gut feelings. Evidence of past digging.

As I have stated I am trying to learn as much as I can. Nobody knows it all. Some are better than others. Persistence is the key. If I can stay focused on treasure I WILL eventually dig something up. Once I get to that point I may have figured how to dig a lot more up. We will see. All advice and assistance is appreciated.

edit-(I woke up at 2:30 a.m. and had to add this) I was dreaming I was in a crazy treasure hunting card game. I was dealt four aces. I never got a chance to show my hand. I woke up and felt the need to add to this post. There is now a pack of wild coyote's out back howling. I got this idea in my head to get back on here and add to all dowsers, please pm me your results if you dowse this photo. Please do it ASAP. I am going back to the site today. I know I may be a little crazy about all this but I am VERY serious about digging for treasure. That is the only way I know of to find it.)

 

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[aarthrj3811]

You are correct…Every tool may tell you something is there…Some day you will learn which treasures to walk away from….I think we have all been there….Art

 

[signal_line]

Bigdogdad, I'm not accusing anyone of swindling anybody. I'm saying the track record of the map dowsers is dismal at best. I've made criticism that they do not get any feedback and they are hiding from the truth. I realize you are desperate to find your treasure. Yes, I think it is a mistake to post your photos because like I said, you never know which is which and who is who. You don't know. I know what I've read from at least one map dower here and he doesn't know. Sure he can swing a pendulum over a photo and get some response. That means almost nothing. The typical map dowser has odds against them at ten-thousand to one. I kinda wished I knew who the four people who put you on that spot, but I don't want to pry and really not that interested. Just that many so-called dowsers are not experts. I also realize these guys hope if you find something you will give them a cut. That's why they do it for free, I hope it's not something else, bit you never know. You want advice, dump the two box and get a good pulse induction machine with a two meter square coil. If that can't find it, I would not dig.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Bigdogdad, I'm not accusing anyone of swindling anybody.

Just almost every post you make

I'm saying the track record of the map dowsers is dismal at best. I've made criticism that they do not get any feedback and they are hiding from the truth.

Whose truth are you talking about?

I realize you are desperate to find your treasure. Yes, I think it is a mistake to post your photos because like I said, you never know which is which and who is who. You don't know. I know what I've read from at least one map dower here and he doesn't know. Sure he can swing a pendulum over a photo and get some response. That means almost nothing.

Why is it a mistake to post photos?

The typical map dowser has odds against them at ten-thousand to one

.
So you flipped a coin ten thousand times and you were only right one time...so you are a lousy coin flipper

I kinda wished I knew who the four people who put you on that spot, but I don't want to pry and really not that interested. Just that many so-called dowsers are not experts. I also realize these guys hope if you find something you will give them a cut.

I see a lot of guys making offers but no one asking for one..I don’t see anyone here claiming to be an expert..

That's why they do it for free, I hope it's not something else, bit you never know. You want advice, dump the two box and get a good pulse induction machine with a two meter square coil. If that can't find it, I would not dig.

As a treasure hunter he can use any tool that he wants....Art

 

[Bigdogdad]

I want to thank all the dowsers on here that have tried to help me. Some of you put a lot of time and effort into dowsing the photos for anyone that asks for help. I don't look a gift horse in the mouth as to why any of you go to the trouble when you all seem to receive a lot of negativity. I am not sure why so many people feel the need to criticize what you do. There are thousands of threads to choose from. If you don't believe what is posted and don't believe in dowsing in general than perhaps you should stay off of the dowsing forum.

I have wondered how many people really take the time and effort to try to locate treasure that has been possibly pointed out to them by the dowsers on here. If you send a photo that is taken from way up in the air how do you possibly expect to dig a hole in the right spot? If they give you some hits then you should try to zoom in closer so that you can tell EXACTLY where to look. Digging a hole is not that easy and trying to find treasure can be like looking for a needle in a haystack. I don't think anyone on Treasurenet is consistently finding caches of gold or silver. If they are they are keeping it to themselves which is probably a good idea.

I will tell some of the details of what happened on this last dig. I made plenty of mistakes.

One of the map dowsers gave me an exact location to dig.

I went to the spot to try to find the owner and to see what was at the spot.

I got a chance to take another out of state T-Net member who is also a dowser to the location.When we showed up the homeowners were getting into their car.

I got out and started talking to them.

Unbeknownst to me the dowser was using his device while sitting in the passenger seat.

The homeowners were receptive to allowing us to check out the spot.

The dowser (with no prior knowledge of the where the exact spot was) went right over to a tree.

He circled the tree with his device and said that is where the treasure was located.

He had a Fisher two-box metal detector with him and ran it over the spot.

It gave a reading for metal buried deep.

He was convinced there was something valuable buried under the tree.

I talked to the homeowner about allowing me to come back and dig and that I would write up a contract.

The dowser and I left and went to other places.

The dowser had to go back home in another state.

The original dowser said the gold was buried at exactly nine feet.

I rented a backhoe and for some dumb reason decided to dig a little off from the tree as that was where it looked to be on the original photo.

I hit water at 5 feet. This is normal for Florida.

Although the rental company stated that the backhoe would dig to eleven feet they all have a tendency to exaggerate.

The backhoe could dig no further than seven feet.

I got in the muddy hole and tried probing.

The probe hit a loose rocky/shell? layer at EXACTLY nine feet.

My metal detector went off but it is affected by water so I did not trust it's response.

I could dig no further as the hole kept caving in.

We filled in the hole, cleaned up the area and the homeowner said I could give it another try.

After talking to both dowsers I realized how stupid it was for me to not dig under the tree.

I had even put it into the contract that I needed to remove the tree.

I came back the next weekend with a new plan.

I would rent another backhoe (a bigger one was already rented).

I rented the same size backhoe as before. Mistake.

I made no plans to deal with the water other then to rent a mud hog diaphragm pump. Mistake.

I should have put in well points to dry the area.

I planned on building a box to keep the sides from falling into the hole.

I thought I could add to the bottom of the box to get deeper. Mistake.

The sandy water mixture kept pouring in from under the box.

We could not dig fast enough.

The daylight was fast running out and the homeowner said we could not leave the hole open overnight.

I had marked with stakes ahead of time so I knew EXACTLY where both dowsers and the two box said the object was.

I probed down and it was another three feet to the hard rocky shelf.

I probed numerous times and in one area the probe would not go down as far.

It made a clunking sound.

I tried to dig out a hole to get a metal detector coil down but the "quicksand" made it impossible.

The wet dirt outside the box was exerting a lot of pressure on the sides.

The homeowner was getting worried about our safety.

I made the decision to fill the entire site in.

We came back the next day and smoothed over and cleaned up all our mess.

I went to the site today and removed the rest of the materials and my trailer with the cut up tree in it.

The homeowner does not think we can dig down to the object at nine feet. He is losing confidence in me. I don't blame him.

The bottom line.-I had two T-Net members independently show me exactly where to dig and how deep to dig.

I failed to dig to the depth I set out to. My mistake.

What did I prove?

That I don't follow instructions and keep making the same mistakes over and over.

I have been trying to find treasure for a very long time.

I will NEVER give up!

I now have a few easier sites to go after. Stay tuned.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Yes Florida is tough...I rent a backhoe and pulled it 600 miles to end up with a large boulder that it would not move..Just some information for my troll....I don’t know enough about computers to try to find where any of these maps are from....Art

 

[widomanmx]

Bigdogdad, with a VLF two box detector is common beep saltpeter (common in water streams), black sand and yes in some types of grounds or trees the rocks or roots accumulate these sediments because water carries them (rain, irrigation, underground streams).

When you get a beep with this VLF detectors you have to draw the shape of the target (rectangle, circle, asterisk) passing the detector from different angles, because if you get "lines" and worst "irregular lines" (in sections) .. you can bet it's mineral
.. to avoid beep "mineral" a PI detector like signal_line suggest and you will have more depth range.

 

[Bigdogdad]

There is no stream, rocks, irrigation, underground stream, or black sand. The operator has owned the detector for many years and is experienced in its use. Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part but I am going to go with it just might be gold like I was told. Until I see with my own eyes what is there I will never know. That is how I look at all treasure stories, bottom line is if you don't dig you will never know for sure. I am willing to bet that if we had used a PI detector instead of the Fisher 2-box someone would come on here and tell me I should ignore the PI and instead use a 2-box.

Just so there is no confusion the first set of pictures on this thread are a different location from the latest dig with the wood box.

 

[signal_line]

Yes, I agree I am negative when it comes to map dowsing, two box, even dowsing (although I have found some things), handheld LRL users (I know a guy who bought one an H3tec), and other things I have tried over the last 35 years, and for sure sophomoric t-net phony's with Satanic leanings. One thing I doubt many people understand here is I live and breathe, eat and sleep LRL's, mostly the MFD/HID stuff. Yes, I can dowse, had a dowsing rod out yesterday with a new witness set-up I have been working on. It sure was not as good as any MFD/HID transmitter, but I did get it to work a few times. Well I won't bore you with something you don't want to hear. The school of hard knocks is a very slow way to learn. Maybe you'll understand sometime.

 

[signal_line]

When you get someone telling you what you want to hear, that is deceitful. Unfortunately in this world, that deceit sells, even some religions. Now me, I'm blunt but I seek the truth. I want the truth to be known. I know it doesn't make any friends.

That guy with the H3tec tried to GIVE it to me. I wouldn't take it.

 

[Red_desert]

There is no stream, rocks, irrigation, underground stream, or black sand. The operator has owned the detector for many years and is experienced in its use. Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part but I am going to go with it just might be gold like I was told. Until I see with my own eyes what is there I will never know. That is how I look at all treasure stories, bottom line is if you don't dig you will never know for sure. I am willing to bet that if we had used a PI detector instead of the Fisher 2-box someone would come on here and tell me I should ignore the PI and instead use a 2-box.

Just so there is no confusion the first set of pictures on this thread are a different location from the latest dig with the wood box.

I have a Fisher 2-box and a Gold Bug-2. Places I've thought to have detected mineral salts in the desert, both detectors were about equal in this detection. Of course the area was a gold placer and probably had a layer of black sand underneath, possibly some fine gold also. A Fisher 2-box can be tuned to the ground you are over, but sounds off to changes in geology. Going up a steep bank will make it beep since the back box is higher up from the ground.

I tried using the Gold Bug-2 at a Texas beach in the hot rock mode, even far away from the water, it sounded like all the gold in Ft Knox was under my coil everywhere I moved it. Yet my old Garrett GTA 1000 worked ok in the same spot using all metal mode (a detector which can't be used to close to the waterline without some discrimination).

 

[Bigdogdad]

Yes, I agree I am negative when it comes to map dowsing, two box, even dowsing (although I have found some things), handheld LRL users (I know a guy who bought one an H3tec), and other things I have tried over the last 35 years, and for sure sophomoric t-net phony's with Satanic leanings. One thing I doubt many people understand here is I live and breathe, eat and sleep LRL's, mostly the MFD/HID stuff. Yes, I can dowse, had a dowsing rod out yesterday with a new witness set-up I have been working on. It sure was not as good as any MFD/HID transmitter, but I did get it to work a few times. Well I won't bore you with something you don't want to hear. The school of hard knocks is a very slow way to learn. Maybe you'll understand sometime.

I am open-minded enough to give anything and everyone the benefit of the doubt. I am still a student at the school of hard knocks. Just so you know for the record, I was an Army Engineer, went to Jungle Warfare School, was an army paratrooper, spent a year in Korea near the DMZ, was trained in detecting land mines, have spent 34 years in the construction industry, and got involved in treasure hunting 26 years ago. I am telling you this so that you know I am not some kid and don't expect to be treated like one. You're not going to bore me with something I don't want to hear as I will listen to anything you or others have to say.

As far as map dowsing, remote sensing, LRL's, and more I am a pretty good judge of being able to interpret what I see. I have seen people tested and in my own ways have tested people without them realizing they are being tested. As I have said before I don't need ANYBODY to tell me what to think. I am 58 years old and have been around the block many times over. Maybe you could learn a few things from me unless you already know everything.

 

[prospexican]

Bigdogdad, I'm not accusing anyone of swindling anybody. I'm saying the track record of the map dowsers is dismal at best. I've made criticism that they do not get any feedback and they are hiding from the truth. I realize you are desperate to find your treasure. Yes, I think it is a mistake to post your photos because like I said, you never know which is which and who is who. You don't know. I know what I've read from at least one map dower here and he doesn't know. Sure he can swing a pendulum over a photo and get some response. That means almost nothing. The typical map dowser has odds against them at ten-thousand to one. I kinda wished I knew who the four people who put you on that spot, but I don't want to pry and really not that interested. Just that many so-called dowsers are not experts. I also realize these guys hope if you find something you will give them a cut. That's why they do it for free, I hope it's not something else, bit you never know. You want advice, dump the two box and get a good pulse induction machine with a two meter square coil. If that can't find it, I would not dig.

well i don't really want to get much into this experience exchange but i own a 2 box metal detector and have as much experience as u can think off with this machine and a 2 box is a must have for treasure hunters, of course very good experience is need it to be success but this machines will tell u more that u can imagine, so far i will identify 3 different metals with this machine and will tell u exactly what is it, but all those tips will be share on a possible book than im writing ,when do im going to finish it? i don't know yet but so far palibrio.com is dealing whit me for publication, i should not even mention about the book because i need to do that one's i make sure it is actually coming, but i need to mention that a have nothing against pulse induction with square coils, but we just went to a place close to right patch in north west of Nevada and i found a very potential target than i just love it, the problem is that we were sent to that area by a gas station cashier and we don't know who owns the land, so more research will be need in order to dig, but i can't really live without my 2 box detector, we also had a Minelab the the GPX-5000 of course not with any square coils but it was going crazy just showing readings every 4 inches, the Minelab was a toy there,
it was just worthless, was like having a bounty hunter looking for nuggets, lol, any way, i just want to advise every one that if you play a lot with 2 box detectors they are awesome, and will tell you more that you can imagine so if any body has a good place and want to invite me closed to Nevada, i will try to meet with you and come on to inspect the area, excuse my English but i am still learning, but i think you will understand what i said, well had u ever hear about vicente contreras? a prospector who found many treasures? you might look at google i wish and i can translate his books to English specially the one called millonario en una noche, (millionaire in a night) most of his finds was with a 2 box metal detector, and in those old days they were not as sensitive like they are now, happy new yr folks and hoppe to read you next yrs, o in a few hrs lol no more coronas? :don;t know:

 

[signal_line]

I have to wonder about this whole thing. Here I explain what is needed after Bigdogdad asks for help. Instead I get all this "I don't want criticism." Well, I'll say it again. Feedback is an essential part of the process. That means the map dowsers need to toss a target out in their yard and go inside and try to map dowse it. This should be done a few times each and every day. No exceptions. Otherwise it is an exercise in self deception. And if you want to use a metal detector, get a pulse induction unit with a large coil and the eighteen inch coil is also very handy and goes deeper than a two box. I know, Kill the messenger. Nobody wants to hear the truth, all they do is hide from it.

 

[aarthrj3811]

I have to wonder about this whole thing. Here I explain what is needed after Bigdogdad asks for help. Instead I get all this "I don't want criticism." Well, I'll say it again. Feedback is an essential part of the process. That means the map dowsers need to toss a target out in their yard and go inside and try to map dowse it. This should be done a few times each and every day.

Thank you for the advice...We will consider it but we know it comes from someone who can not dowse

 

[Bigdogdad]

I have to wonder about this whole thing. Here I explain what is needed after Bigdogdad asks for help. Instead I get all this "I don't want criticism." Well, I'll say it again. Feedback is an essential part of the process. That means the map dowsers need to toss a target out in their yard and go inside and try to map dowse it. This should be done a few times each and every day. No exceptions. Otherwise it is an exercise in self deception. And if you want to use a metal detector, get a pulse induction unit with a large coil and the eighteen inch coil is also very handy and goes deeper than a two box. I know, Kill the messenger. Nobody wants to hear the truth, all they do is hide from it.

signal_line-Thank you for explaining what is needed. I assume you have done testing as to how well each type of detector works. I will assume that you buried some targets yourself so that you knew the exact depth and location and then tried all means of detection to tell which method or detector works best. Don't get your panties in a wad because myself or others do not just automatically believe and accept everything you say as a matter of fact. Your opinion is worth something but as with opinions in general they are just that, "your opinion". You appear to be somewhat thin-skinned about all this.

"Kill the messenger"? Give us a break. How about a little less melodrama. "Nobody wants to hear the truth"? Who's truth? Yours? Are we to assume that you are the know all on all things treasure searching related?

For the record if I had a 100 pound hunk of gold buried, how deep would a PI unit detect it and how deep could a 2-box detect it? Does the soil composition affect this number? Does what it is buried in affect this number? Does the amount of time it is buried affect this number? I ask these questions of anyone reading this thread. If you are going to give answers don't just assume that you can believe what the manufacturer of any given device tells you it will do.


signal_line aarthj3811 Thank you both for your input but please do not turn this thread into a peeing contest.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Sorry Bigdagdad...when I see misleading information being present as the truth I must reply....Art

 

[Red_desert]

I have to wonder about this whole thing. Here I explain what is needed after Bigdogdad asks for help. Instead I get all this "I don't want criticism." Well, I'll say it again. Feedback is an essential part of the process. That means the map dowsers need to toss a target out in their yard and go inside and try to map dowse it. This should be done a few times each and every day. No exceptions. Otherwise it is an exercise in self deception. And if you want to use a metal detector, get a pulse induction unit with a large coil and the eighteen inch coil is also very handy and goes deeper than a two box. I know, Kill the messenger. Nobody wants to hear the truth, all they do is hide from it.

A few weeks ago, I was discussing GPRs with Bigdogdad and once mentioned to him a pulse would be a good idea and also about the meteorite hunters in Kansas who make their own loops.

I watched a news special on TV showing them out there with a backhoe digging up 100+ lb. meteorites using......it looked to me like a PVC type loop large enough to stand inside while you're walking. Anyway, I mentioned all this once when discussing GPRs and he might have missed what I said, because it was in with all the GPR info.

I've heard there is info out there on the Internet on making your own pulse, the one type uses a PVC loop. Also, there is a T-Net member who lives in Kansas, told me himself he learned how to make his own pulse/PVC loop detector from the same guy interviewed on TV. They find meteorites 7-9 feet deep

 

[73dguard]

Let me start by saying I am a critical skeptic of distance/map dowsing/on-the-spot dowsing, and LRL. The only way I could be convinced is to hide a cache myself and post a map and successfully have it dowsed, which is a standing challenge on my profile. Having established that, the answer to your question: "what is in this spot?" The answer is a Microsoft one (accurate but useless): a hole covered with branches. Was something of value there previously? Only you and anyone who dug that same spot before you knows. A member here dowsed a satellite image for me when I inquired about a substantial amount of gold. He circled the supposed location. I dug there. The result is I unearthed an old chest freezer, no gold. My advise is if you must consult distance dowsers, dowsers and LRL, put them to the test on a cache you bury, have them dowse that and you will know instantly your probability of success with their help. Regards, Joe

 

[Bigdogdad]

Red Desert is correct in that he did advise me to use a PI detector. I have had a couple of times in the past where I had someone involved say they were going to bring theirs and then left it at home. That was the case on this dig. I was already committed in my mind to dig this spot. I failed to get to the target depth I set out to. This had nothing to do with the type of metal detector used. I have said on other threads that the most reliable metal detector/finder is a backhoe. As with any other detector they each have their own depth limitations.

73dguard-You say you have a standing challenge on your profile. Do you have some gold hidden at this time? If so I will independently work with a few people to see if they can locate it. Send me a pic with the gold location in it. That is somewhat interesting that you found a chest freezer at the location pointed out to you by a map dowser. The excuse could be brought up that it may have contained gold at one time. Unlikely, but who knows. I am going to get hold of a small pile of gold to hide. I will take my own photos from high up on a ladder so that the photo is current with the gold contained within it. I imagine that some of the dowsers on here may not want to be tested. I have seen tests done that were not properly executed and so were worthless. If I do this I will be as honest as can be with the results. The dowsers would be able to PM me their answers and no one would have to have their feelings hurt on here. If someone hit it on the exact spot I would ask them if they want that result put on here.

Many years ago a dowser I had met was put thru a number of tests. Some involved map dowsing. He successfully passed the tests as they were given and caused a couple of guys to have to permanently change their way of thinking. I would guess that no matter how the test is conducted on here that the major skeptics will refuse to believe the results. I already KNOW map dowsing can work but it would be interesting to see who can come up with the correct answers.