Novice needs help

Curtis · Oct 6, 2009

Hi Everyone,

I have always neen a landlubber, but will soon be doing the suba thing. My question is how do you illumminate for a dive into a river like the Ohio? It seems to be really muddy water. Are there special lights that can help penetrate that stuff?

mad4wrecks · Oct 6, 2009

Welcome to TNET Curtis.

I suggest you first get in about 50 dives in various types of water conditions before you even consider diving in black water like the Ohio. It's very important that you learn to be completely comfortable underwater in a variety of conditions.

Your local dive shop may offer additional courses on dealing with silt outs and black water conditions. Look into those.

Also, flashlights don't help in muddy or silty water-all they do is illuminate the particles in the water.

Good luck and safe diving. Tom

Pyrotten · Oct 6, 2009

Once you get your advanced open water cert, you need to spend some time in White Star and Gilboa quarries... (stay away from Nelson's Ledges) Once you can handle the rock crusher, you can start thinking about zero viz diving. Night diving at 80-100 feet is a good beginning. I'm in Cols and dive both regularly. I'll be out for the annual underwater pumpkin carving and for the ice diving. When the normal (warm) season starts again, feel free to contact me and I'll meet you at either and do what I can for you.

wwwtimmcp · Oct 6, 2009

dacor used to make an amber lens cover for their dive lights. it helped diffuse the light to help eliminate that driving in a blizzard feeling of a whiteout. I agree with getting alot more diving in before trying low viz conditions. p.s. I call that diving by braille.

rgecy · Oct 6, 2009

Well, certainly don't take any advice from them Florida boys, they don't dive if the vis gets under 10'. ::)

If you are going to be diving in black water, I suggest you find an instructor who dives black water often and is willing to take you down in these conditions. It may not be for you, and better to find out now than later.

Night diving is a good start, but it still does not compare to zero or near zero vis. At night in clear water, you can still see 10-20' or more around you.

A good light is going to be a must in conditions like this, along with a good backup. You wont be able to see too far, but I find that it keeps me focused on whats right in front of me, instead of looking all around. I dive for Meg teeth and actually find better and bigger teeth when the conditions are worse. If I have too much vis, I am looking all around and will miss some the ones right in front of me. Sometimes its so bad, you just turn the light off and feel everything with your hands. Now, that's really braille diving!

Zero vis, with zero light is very confining and if you are the least bit claustrophobic, you probably will have a hard time with it.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

Robert

Sandman · Oct 6, 2009

Tom is right.... You should be comfortable in the water first before it's "lights out." If you are a bit anxious down there you will use up to much air. Proper training will make you at ease down there. Lights will bounce back just like using brights during a snow storm so special lens are used, but it still won't be like diving in the Caribbean.

Good luck and have fun.

Curtis · Oct 6, 2009

Thanks guys! This is a great response!

What about those giant catfish big enough to swallow a man whole...heard about them being seen and divers never going back into the Ohio because of it.

Mackaydon · Oct 7, 2009

You need not be concerned. The world record for the largest blue catfish 104 pounds (47.2 kilograms) taken in the line class was set on the Ohio River in 1999; though viewed underwater would increase the apparent size by about a 1/3.
Don.....

ivan salis · Oct 7, 2009

remember this in near zero vis -- to orient yourself --bubbles go up. :wink:

what folks have "caught" and recorded --and whats out there catfish wize in some of the huge water rivers are way differant .

scubadave · Oct 7, 2009

I have been in the Ohio River a lot. Everyones advise is good. You definately need as much experience as possible. Most of my diving has been in zero visibility. I quit carrying a light after the first couple dives. I could not even see the glare from the light unless I stuck it up against my mask. If you want to dive, the best time is during the week in the fall. This is when boat traffic is light, the water level is in pool and the vis gets from 1'-3'. You don't have to worry about the catfish, its the snapping turtles and the broken glass. Wear gloves and extra knee pads, they wear out quickly.

Galleon Hunter · Oct 7, 2009

I would say all the aforementioned advice is real good. Best to gain a level of comfort in your working environment and that only comes with lots of experience. You have to learn to rely on your other senses, move slow and don't panic. I worked on a Confederate gunboat in a creek and everytime it rained it was like diving in chocolate milk. You COULDN'T see your hand in front of your face.

We used what we called "Brodie Bags" (named after a fellow-diver that came up with the idea) A gallon zip lock bag filled with tap water. Tuck it inside your suit and whenever you wanted to look at something underwater, a reading on a measuring tape or an artifact, you would press the object against one side of the bag and press your mask against the other and you could see. Pretty neat trick.

Another thing we did was a lot of training with backout mask. A regular scuba mask with the faceplate spray painted black. We did a lot of pool training wearing blackout mask, and were put in all kinds of situations like monofiliment line wrapped around your tank valve, also thinks like benches, patio furniture etc were thrown in the pool to serve as logs, and other obstructions, and you had to navigate around the pool. All the while other divers "with regular" face mask were keeping a watchful eye on you in case you ran into trouble you couldn't exracate yourself from. This is a whole lot safer to learn and practice this way, before putting what you learn in the pool into a more dangerous real world environment.

mad4wrecks · Oct 7, 2009

That's some pretty good advice there Galleon Hunter. Brodie bags...I like that. Maybe my next article will be about low viz diving. (I am the new West Palm Beach scuba diving writer for the Examiner)

http://www.examiner.com/x-19626-Wes...miner~y2009m9d11-Drift-divingGo-with-the-flow

Tom

FISHEYE · Oct 7, 2009

There is technology out there that will allow a diver to see in murky or black water.

LIMIS systems are hand-held sonar prototypes used in combination with the Miniature Diver Display System (MDDS) to conduct underwater search and identification operations. Limpet mines are small-explosive attack mines that are magnetically attached to ships’ hulls, usually near the rudder and propeller systems.

The Miniature Diver Display System was developed by CSS’s Diving and Life Support Division - also sponsored by the EOD-LIC Program Office. The LIMIS-MDDS system provides a marked operational improvement over current search techniques and equipment. The MDDS provides the diver with an SVGA-quality (800 x 600 pixel resolution) display of the dynamic LIMIS sonar images and enables the diver to clearly see these images in zero visibility conditions underwater.

The MDDS is available as both a monocular and a binocular display and is easily integrated with a number of diver mask platforms and a range of low-volume SCUBA masks. The MDDS has become “the” underwater information display for the LIMIS.

Kantuckkeean · Oct 11, 2009

Make sure to get your Hepatitis A-Z vaccinations if you're diving the Ohio. :tongue3:

And be sure to let us know if you find Muhammad Ali's Olympic gold medal. He threw it off the 2nd St. bridge in Louisville.

Kindest regards,
Kantuck

Curtis · Oct 11, 2011

Thank you everyone, that was a lot of great advice! Sounds like it will be a while before I will be in the river. The info about the sonar sounds too good to be true it must be very very expensive any ideas on price?

sphillips · Oct 11, 2011

mad4wrecks said:
That's some pretty good advice there Galleon Hunter. Brodie bags...I like that. Maybe my next article will be about low viz diving. (I am the new West Palm Beach scuba diving writer for the Examiner)

http://www.examiner.com/x-19626-Wes...miner~y2009m9d11-Drift-divingGo-with-the-flow

Tom

Hey Tom,

Back in the late '70's, we would travel to North Palm Beach from Augusta and drift dive the Amarilys and Mizpah with a dive shop in N. P. B. Cant remember the name of the shop, run by a guy and his long time girlfriend I think. Good trips!

Steve

Petrie502 · Sep 26, 2012

Diving is something I have wanted to get into for awhile I wish I knew of an instructor here in louisville willing to tring a medically retired vet on a set income.. HAHA is it expensive to get your license, what about diving with the ai hose thing instead of a tank do you need a license for that.....

FISHEYE · Sep 26, 2012

I wouldn't worry about the big catfish.The most they are going to do is suck the skin off your arm or leg if you happen to stick it in their mouth.If the drought gets any worse up there you will be able to walk on the river bottom and look for treasure.

FISHEYE · Sep 26, 2012

Petrie502

You dont need a license for the use of a hookah rig but you should still take a scuba course as the same conditions and effects apply underwater.Better to be safe than sorry.