Official Florida Hunt - please post conversations here - Feb - 1,2,3, 2013

River Rat · Feb 4, 2013

Voted by locals as "Best Find"! 1806 Mexico Carolus IIII 8 Reales Silver Coin
CONGRATS, Mike!!

First time ever to detect; with a little help from several members on how to operate her detector, Val took off on her own & found this eerie looking necklace. She's hooked now...she ventured out after dark with a flashlight. LOL!

Buzzlitebeer · Feb 4, 2013

I apologize to everyone for not being there with the gloves in the morning. My wife had a rare reaction to a new medication on friday nite and was life flighted out of Mayo. We got her released today at 2PM and are home now and she is good to go minus some aches and pains.

If you need a great pair of gloves I will be more than happy to mail them to you if you PM me your address.

I'll catch you all on the next hunt.

River Rat · Feb 4, 2013

No apologies needed, your wife's medical emergency is totally understood. We were concerned, but was unable to notify you for further details. Glad she is on the mend now, but I know it had to been very scary. Glad to had met you though.

YankeeDownSouthAdv. · Feb 4, 2013

Well my friend you'll have to keep in touch and we will have to get out and detect this end or up your way real soon...

cybercop106 · Feb 4, 2013

For all of us hooligans who were at the Ft Macomb Boat Ramp, I thought I'd share my research. I spoke with Sheriff Brian Lamb of Lafayette County about the encounter with Deputy Stutts. Lamb initially said the area was state AND county owned by cooperative agreement, so FWC would have come out and given everyone a citation but he just had his Deputy go give us all a warning instead (like he was doing us a favor). When I stopped him there and informed him that FWC only has an agreement about the boat ramp and not the parking lots or property around the ramp, so they do not have enforcement authority anywhere there except on the water and the ramp itself, he had his clerk take my number so he could call me back. A few hours later he did, and as we moved through the discussion about why many folks were 'Detained' and ID'ed, it was established that:
#1. We were not Trespassing on county property cause it is public access AND there was no 'proper notice' as required by law prohibiting detecting or 'digging' (i reminded him some fisherman getting worms or campers having a fire cause more damage, so the area could not be considered untouchable).
#2. Deputy Stutts did not attempt to ascertain if any damage had been done by our 'digging', so there was no Trespassing due to 'Destruction' of property.
#3. Laws concerning restrictions about digging on state land do not apply, since it is not state land (only boat ramp is).
#4. Wetlands, tidal areas, waterways, historical sites, archeological sites, etc... restrictions do not apply because it is none of those.
#5. A detention would be illegal as part of a "Trespass Warning' anyway, because you are not committing Trespass under this circumstance UNLESS you refuse to leave.
To justify the detention, he admitted the son of the property owner next to the camping area complained that some of 'us' had been on his land and were told to leave.
He also insisted that permission had to be granted to MD in Lafayette Co by the Commissioners, so that was the basis of the Trespass Warning (although he provided no ordinance info and nothing is available on the Net OR in the paperwork you must fill out with the County Clerk to 'camp' at that location).
The Deputy obtained ID's as part of the Trespass Warning because of the property owner's (son's) complaint, in case there were any need for that information and as part of his report.
This situation is very iffy, and their justification might not stand up in court, if it came to that (sue for Unlawful Detention), but on the surface it sounds okay and they will fall back on good faith, etc...which would probably be rubber-stamped by a Circuit Court, then possibly over-turned by Appellate Court.
The Trespass Laws are different for Public, as opposed to Private Property, but since the complainant's property was not properly marked (either) and they probably could not identify the (supposed) offenders, you'd have a pretty good case......... but probably not one that's worth pursuing.........
Anyway, Sheriff Lamb apologized for the 'misunderstanding' and didn't argue that D. Stutts' procedure was poor, in that he did not advise for what reason people were being detained and his excuse for ID'ing folks was not strictly legal. Lamb offered to obtain permission from the County Commissioners for us to hunt county property and to help find private properties to hunt if we want to come back to Lafayette County.........
He seemed like a decent guy who was trying to protect his officer and department. And since this was a relatively minor incident, I'm inclined to cut him some slack. I don't imagine he expected to take grief from an outside source, much less a retired cop, but maybe this will be a wake-up call that folks won't just stand by while LEOs play fast and loose with their 14th and 4th Amendment rights in his jurisdiction.........

ghost of scrounger · Feb 4, 2013

cybercop106 said:
For all of us hooligans who were at the Ft Macomb Boat Ramp, I thought I'd share my research. I spoke with Sheriff Brian Lamb of Lafayette County about the encounter with Deputy Stutts. Lamb initially said the area was state AND county owned by cooperative agreement, so FWC would have come out and given everyone a citation but he just had his Deputy go give us all a warning instead (like he was doing us a favor). When I stopped him there and informed him that FWC only has an agreement about the boat ramp and not the parking lots or property around the ramp, so they do not have enforcement authority anywhere there except on the water and the ramp itself, he had his clerk take my number so he could call me back. A few hours later he did, and as we moved through the discussion about why many folks were 'Detained' and ID'ed, it was established that:
#1. We were not Trespassing on county property cause it is public access AND there was no 'proper notice' as required by law prohibiting detecting or 'digging' (i reminded him some fisherman getting worms or campers having a fire cause more damage, so the area could not be considered untouchable).
#2. Deputy Stutts did not attempt to ascertain if any damage had been done by our 'digging', so there was no Trespassing due to 'Destruction' of property.
#3. Laws concerning restrictions about digging on state land do not apply, since it is not state land (only boat ramp is).
#4. Wetlands, tidal areas, waterways, historical sites, archeological sites, etc... restrictions do not apply because it is none of those.
#5. A detention would be illegal as part of a "Trespass Warning' anyway, because you are not committing Trespass under this circumstance UNLESS you refuse to leave.
To justify the detention, he admitted the son of the property owner next to the camping area complained that some of 'us' had been on his land and were told to leave.
He also insisted that permission had to be granted to MD in Lafayette Co by the Commissioners, so that was the basis of the Trespass Warning (although he provided no ordinance info and nothing is available on the Net OR in the paperwork you must fill out with the County Clerk to 'camp' at that location).
The Deputy obtained ID's as part of the Trespass Warning because of the property owner's (son's) complaint, in case there were any need for that information and as part of his report.
This situation is very iffy, and their justification might not stand up in court, if it came to that (sue for Unlawful Detention), but on the surface it sounds okay and they will fall back on good faith, etc...which would probably be rubber-stamped by a Circuit Court, then possibly over-turned by Appellate Court.
The Trespass Laws are different for Public, as opposed to Private Property, but since the complainant's property was not properly marked (either) and they probably could not identify the (supposed) offenders, you'd have a pretty good case......... but probably not one that's worth pursuing.........
Anyway, Sheriff Lamb apologized for the 'misunderstanding' and didn't argue that D. Stutts' procedure was poor, in that he did not advise for what reason people were being detained and his excuse for ID'ing folks was not strictly legal. Lamb offered to obtain permission from the County Commissioners for us to hunt county property and to help find private properties to hunt if we want to come back to Lafayette County.........
He seemed like a decent guy who was trying to protect his officer and department. And since this was a relatively minor incident, I'm inclined to cut him some slack. I don't imagine he expected to take grief from an outside source, much less a retired cop, but maybe this will be a wake-up call that folks won't just stand by while LEOs play fast and loose with their 14th and 4th Amendment rights in his jurisdiction.........

wow how cool izzit that u were with and understand what u just wrote.legal mumbo jumbo.
heres to ya. salute

Wayne P · Feb 5, 2013

First off, Thanks for taking the time to look into the incident and defend the group. It is so easy to have the "sheep" led to slaughter just because! There are also ways to address issues without strong arming people and making them feel like criminals. Your assist in digging deeper into the issue should help those affected feel better. Secondly, I gotta say it was considerate of the Sherff to volunteer to help find additional places to MD. Worth keeping in mind for those close enough to take him up on it.

YankeeDownSouthAdv. · Feb 5, 2013

thank you sir for your hard work and investigatimg. you and the wife may have to join us. send me the sheriffs email
I may write him and inquire on this hunt offer for us.

thanks again jim....you the man!!!!!

cybercop106 · Feb 5, 2013

PM sent Greg.

YankeeDownSouthAdv. · Feb 5, 2013

will check it shortly

cybercop106 · Feb 5, 2013

ghost of scrounger said:
wow how cool izzit that u were with and understand what u just wrote.legal mumbo jumbo.
heres to ya. salute

Well a couple decades of police work can do that to ya.... :thumbsup:

Life, more and more, seems to be full of 'legal mumbo-jumbo' doesn't it. But agreements are full of it and disagreements often end up in a court-room full of it.
I guess I coulda just said 'The Sheriff said the Deputy was investigating a Trespass complaint from an adjoining property owner.' But I wanted to detail some of the nuances for those involved, including the fact that the Deputy's procedure was crap. I hoped my long-winded diatribe might help illuminate the incident and help someone understand this type of situation in the future..... Of course my conversation with Sheriff Lamb was NOT that organized. I paraphrased it from my perspective...... He would probably disagree with some of my assertions, but the only way to establish which one of us is right would be in a court full of legal mumbo- jumbo, so there ya go again......
That being said, and as I told Ocala, at least one of our guys probably WAS on the private land of the complainer, either in the earlier group or someone in our group. I over-heard conversation about 'being in the woods' and stuff near the boat ramp later but didn't pay much attention to it at the time cause I didn't know the situation...... and the private property wasn't posted there................ But THAT circumstance would, IF HANDLED PROPERLY, substantiate the Deputy's detention. :sleepy2:

ghost of scrounger · Feb 5, 2013

i was in that area also.but stayed where there were campsites

YankeeDownSouthAdv. · Feb 5, 2013

If you have any photos you would like to have put in the photo video from hunt let me know and i will give you email to send them to....or post them here...thanks...gregg

River Rat · Feb 6, 2013

Photos posted on FB via Godsnum1 & Ocalasix...Enjoy!

Rockndave · Feb 6, 2013

I was in those woods but did not encounter anyone. I didn't see any No Tresspassing signs either. Did find a wire fence line buried in the ground, it was the only metal I found out there! No distinction of private land was visible, so off I went.
Didn't mean any harm.
Rockndave