Oregon Vikings off topic.... free for all thread!

[Limitool]

So Brad have you checked out the Arizona easy fletch? https://www.ezfletch.com/
1. Tighter groups.
2. Flatter trajectory.
3. Quieter arrow flight.
4. Better Broadhead flight.

A couple of guys on an archery forum said yes, works great. Talked to a guy here locally that shoots 2512-2712 Easton aluminum's, I shot a 2712 with a whisker biscuit, then a prong rest... both worked great. 34" arrow has not been cut yet. He has a 32" reach and using his release felt very comfortable. View attachment 1597974 The bow is currently at 70 lbs... but he is using your "slow down" technique also....using large shaft arrows. Kinetic energy... the 2712 hits the target hard.

Glad to hear your getting more and more advise (good for you!). I reviewed your video link. I only have 2 thoughts Viking.

1. Why was not a straight veined arrow compared to the other 2...?

2. How far do you actually anticipate / wish in killing an animal? I'm just curious...?

I personally never needed much poundage to just kill a deer from 5-50 yds. Now I admit anybody would want a lot more "horsepower" while hunting wild boar. That's not open for debate (from me).

So... just earlier on I was just addressing taking elk then all other deer - antelope, black-tail, whitetail and mulies. But even a bear will / should / will be taken at close range within the archers abilities. That's why I suggested the KISS mode. It's simple to do.

I admit I'm not up to date on all technology, engineering and/or latest thoughts from when I was shooting @ a world class target archery level. My point is I kept it simple then and I carried it over to my hunting. I personally never needed a fast bow and/or all the latest and greatest. It's "easy" to kill a deer and many other critters without a "speed bow" for the previous reason's I've stated.

I'm still working on the package to send buddy... Later, Brad

 

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[Oregon Viking]

The guys I talked to said the Arizona EZ fletch works. I'm not going to buy one because I really don't want to build arrows. An arrow flying even a little straighter removes error in my book. Arrow gets to the target a little faster... same thing. Of course I will strive for better form, technique first... but I will take every assist I can! I was given an Easton 2712 34 1/2 inch arrow. I missed the 3D deer target...well I hit it in the head...knocked it over! Ka-freegin-boom! That big ass arrow has a lot of kinetic energy. So Brad...slowing down the bow (big heavy arrows) but shooting with high poundage..(bow is set that way) I'am using your advice...and incorporating a bit of the new (speed) tech! Finger shot it too... bent my arm a bit to adjust ....I know....shame!!!

Whisker biscuit held the arrow great. But I can't see the tip of the arrow and that bugs me. I seem to incorporate instinct shooting characteristics...even with sights!

Hey Brad... I'll give you another reason to shake yer head, maybe cuss a bit. I shot the log (2712) with the overdraw on my bow...tip was not above my wrist (34 1/2 inch chunk of... alu-minium..) I liked it!

 

[Oregon Viking]

New Whisker Biscuit was attached and a few arrows shot tonight. I like it! The prong rests ...at least for me... seem to allow the arrow to.. whoops.... Fall of the damn thing! Whisker Biscuit, arrow stays put.
So.. 3d shoots... I might try a new fangled QAD
"fall away" rest. Full capture, then it falls away...Zero vane interference.

These are one of the two recommended for the Whisker Biscuit.
http://www.vanetec.com/

And Blazers.
https://www.blackovis.com/brands/bohning-archery

I want arrows that work for Hunting, 3D and target shooting....Combo arrow!!

 

[Oregon Viking]

New Whisker Biscuit was attached and a few arrows shot tonight. I like it! The prong rests ...at least for me... seem to allow the arrow to.. whoops.... Fall of the damn thing! Whisker Biscuit, arrow stays put.
So.. 3d shoots... I might try a new fangled QAD
"fall away" rest. Full capture, then it falls away...Zero vane interference.

These are one of the two recommended for the Whisker Biscuit.
Precision Arrow Vanes | VaneTec

And Blazers.
https://www.blackovis.com/brands/bohning-archery

I want arrows that work for Hunting, 3D and target shooting....Combo arrow!!

OK Brad. Easton arrow chart tells me X7's 2512-2712. big ass arrows! Target chart is what I'am looking at... Target, 3D is what I will be doing 95% of the time. What kind of vanes? I want to purchase arrows all ready fletched, X7's are 34 1/2 inches stock.... I'm guessing that's a bit to long.

Friend of mine that let me shoot his bow...2712's, X7 eclipse, Easton aluminum. Aluminum rocket! Big, heavy, in fact 2712 is the biggest arrow he's shot. My 1995 Hoyt Fast Flite Defiant shot that "log" at 276 FPS..70 lbs.. with a prong NAP Quicktune rest. Whisker biscuit slowed it down 3-5 FPS. That fat boy arrow hit WAY harder then the carbon arrows we also shot. A noticeable harder hitting (More kinetic energy) arrow.

The vanes are Blazer vanes made to shoot through a whisker biscuit.. It's my understanding a Whisker biscuit can mess up feathered vanes. With the whisker biscuit the arrow stays put...same as the modern fall away rests but less moving parts.

The fall away rests have zero vane interference, but the tuning issues...I don't know yet. Living in a small town...no arrows for sale. I can use 2512's ( X7 Easton aluminum) But that seems to be the minimum size recommended. I shot a few light carbon arrows, and they are fast... but I'm not going to follow the "speed is king" modern thinking. But... you notice the difference between the heavy Easton's compared to the light carbon's. We can measure the speed so I might see what kind of long shots... comparing the different arrows.

 

[Oregon Viking]

OK Brad. Easton arrow chart tells me X7's 2512-2712. big ass arrows! Target chart is what I'am looking at... Target, 3D is what I will be doing 95% of the time. What kind of vanes? I want to purchase arrows all ready fletched, X7's are 34 1/2 inches stock.... I'm guessing that's a bit to long.

Friend of mine that let me shoot his bow...2712's, X7 eclipse, Easton aluminum. Aluminum rocket! Big, heavy, in fact 2712 is the biggest arrow he's shot. My 1995 Hoyt Fast Flite Defiant shot that "log" at 276 FPS..70 lbs.. with a prong NAP Quicktune rest. Whisker biscuit slowed it down 3-5 FPS. That fat boy arrow hit WAY harder then the carbon arrows we also shot. A noticeable harder hitting (More kinetic energy) arrow.

The vanes are Blazer vanes made to shoot through a whisker biscuit.. It's my understanding a Whisker biscuit can mess up feathered vanes. With the whisker biscuit the arrow stays put...same as the modern fall away rests but less moving parts.

The fall away rests have zero vane interference, but the tuning issues...I don't know yet. Living in a small town...no arrows for sale. I can use 2512's ( X7 Easton aluminum) But that seems to be the minimum size recommended. I shot a few light carbon arrows, and they are fast... but I'm not going to follow the "speed is king" modern thinking. But... you notice the difference between the heavy Easton's compared to the light carbon's. We can measure the speed so I might see what kind of long shots... comparing the different arrows.

OK I'm going to order an arrow scale. The closest archery shop id 2 1/2 hours away (field and stream has ALOT of everything) No Easton X7's. But I did find Carbon Express PileDriver 350's Heavy arrows.

The PileDriver™ is the heaviest arrow Carbon Express® makes, enhanced with weight-forward technology for superior accuracy. Built for brute strength, durability, and unequaled penetration. Front 2/3 of arrow is finished in Mossy Oak® Brush®. Straightness tolerance: ±.005". Weight: tolerance: ±1 grain. 2'' Predator vanes.

Heaviest arrow Carbon Express® makes
Enhanced with weight-forward technology for superior accuracy
Built for brute strength, durability, and unequaled penetration
Front 2/3 of arrow is finished in Mossy Oak® Brush®
Straightness tolerance: ±.005"
Weight: tolerance: ±1 grain

I will have to order Easton Aluminum's. And guess what? Fletch them... What vanes do I want? 2 inch 4 inch feathers.. Cut them, install nocks, inserts.... ..... More tools! That is a good thing though.

After pricing arrow saws......ehhhh. no. I'll have a shop do it.

 

[Oregon Viking]

OK Brad... I did a bit of research on your recommendation. I'm sold on feathers.

Plastic:

Low Cost.
Easy mass production.

Feathers:

Excellent Guidance.
No arrow deflection on release.
No long yardage before stabilized flight.
Higher arrow velocities.
Up to 700% lighter than vanes.
Eliminate bow window clearance problems.
Can be shot off the arrow plate. No tricky arrow rest required.
Less chance of brush deflection when hunting.
Bow tuning is simple and less critical.
More forgiving of mistakes.
Extends useable spine range of arrow.
Target deflection caused by deflection of an arrow hitting the fletching of another is minimal by using feather vanes which simply push open to make room.
Orientation of arrow on string is not critical.
Unaffected by hot and cold temperature extremes.
Aging: Feathers are unaffected by ultra-violet rays. Plastic stiffens and deteriorates.
Ecologically: Feathers are natural bi-degradable products.
Aesthetic: Quality die cuts have a smooth soft natural and historic appeal that can't be matched by the "toy plastic" image of plastic vanes.

Feathers: The confidence Builder!

Nothing equals feathers for:

Speed
Stability
Forgiving of mistakes
Accuracy

The above from from this article.

http://www.trueflightfeathers.com/facts.htm

 

[releventchair]

Yikes!
All that work just to watch an arrow disappear.(Though my metal detector has been a help for more than just myself.)

I order arrows built. Reduces cost of tools ,though I have considered buying by more than a dozen a couple times...

A couple three with feathers for fletching ,once proven accurate as others are good if you hunt in the rain. Or for traditions/traditional archery's sake if you are going that route.

Spine to match bow matters on shafts. Weight uniformity is more standard with many shafts quite detailed in their specs today.
Carbon fiber can be a wicked hospital visit if not religiously inspected often and worn or damaged or compromised shafts culled.
Aluminum is more an issue of having to re straighten after a incident that would violate a carbon arrow. Sometimes.
A bent aluminum arrow has multiple uses. A speed loader for tube fed .22's is one.

Feathers ,or vanes create drag. Drag offers some stability and can impart twist. F.O.C. needs to be upfront/(pun intended) but needs considered early in arrow builds. Then lean toward the nock end and how much drag is required.

 

[Oregon Viking]

Yikes!
All that work just to watch an arrow disappear.(Though my metal detector has been a help for more than just myself.)

I order arrows built. Reduces cost of tools ,though I have considered buying by more than a dozen a couple times...

A couple three with feathers for fletching ,once proven accurate as others are good if you hunt in the rain. Or for traditions/traditional archery's sake if you are going that route.

Spine to match bow matters on shafts. Weight uniformity is more standard with many shafts quite detailed in their specs today.
Carbon fiber can be a wicked hospital visit if not religiously inspected often and worn or damaged or compromised shafts culled.
Aluminum is more an issue of having to re straighten after a incident that would violate a carbon arrow. Sometimes.
A bent aluminum arrow has multiple uses. A speed loader for tube fed .22's is one.

Feathers ,or vanes create drag. Drag offers some stability and can impart twist. F.O.C. needs to be upfront/(pun intended) but needs considered early in arrow builds. Then lean toward the nock end and how much drag is required.

A friend of mine recommends these.

Both carbon and aluminum have their virtues for archers and one of the latest innovations marries the two.

Easton Archery combines the qualities of carbon and aluminum with its Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) arrow. A carbon core provides strength without adding too much weight. It also provides the backbone we’ve all come to appreciate from carbon. A thin, aluminum jacket, however, infuses the qualities of the time-tested alloy to improve precision. The exterior jacket also adds just the right amount of extra weight to stabilize arrow flight. Bonded to the carbon core, the aluminum forms a single shaft that can be cut to length, like any other arrow. Inserts fit into the carbon core.

I tried the FMJ bolts for myself and found them to be extremely accurate at the range. The bolts were consistent and provided repeatable results at an array of distances. When I tried shooting through a strong crosswind, it became obvious the heavier FMJ wasn’t affected much, even at extended distances

 

[Peyton Manning]

< so lazy he throws arrows like darts ( hardly ever misses)

 

[releventchair]

A friend of mine recommends these.

Both carbon and aluminum have their virtues for archers and one of the latest innovations marries the two.

Easton Archery combines the qualities of carbon and aluminum with its Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) arrow. A carbon core provides strength without adding too much weight. It also provides the backbone we’ve all come to appreciate from carbon. A thin, aluminum jacket, however, infuses the qualities of the time-tested alloy to improve precision. The exterior jacket also adds just the right amount of extra weight to stabilize arrow flight. Bonded to the carbon core, the aluminum forms a single shaft that can be cut to length, like any other arrow. Inserts fit into the carbon core.

I tried the FMJ bolts for myself and found them to be extremely accurate at the range. The bolts were consistent and provided repeatable results at an array of distances. When I tried shooting through a strong crosswind, it became obvious the heavier FMJ wasn’t affected much, even at extended distances

I have carbon and aluminum for the crossbow. With a lean towards the familiar aluminum.

Ahh. Hybrid arrows. The disadvantage of both carbon and of aluminum all in one. L.o.l..

The FMJ's get good reviews. A/C/C's too.

Depending on budget ...Try a variety.
If budget is the sole driver ,get some xx75's and don't look back. Till you run out of arrows. Which you will if you shoot enough ,regardless of material.

 

[Oregon Viking]

I have carbon and aluminum for the crossbow. With a lean towards the familiar aluminum.

Ahh. Hybrid arrows. The disadvantage of both carbon and of aluminum all in one. L.o.l..

The FMJ's get good reviews. A/C/C's too.

Depending on budget ...Try a variety.
If budget is the sole driver ,get some xx75's and don't look back. Till you run out of arrows. Which you will if you shoot enough ,regardless of material.

True.
I need big arrows, the fattest xx75 is 2512 I need 2512 and up. X7's are the recommended arrow from the Easton arrow chart. I have some carbon arrows and they are like shooting lightning bolts. I need a long arrow so I can damn near shoot most arrows uncut. I'm going to have them cut to what my draw length indicator arrow tells me. 33 inches! Actually that is not one inch forward (longer) from/then the arrow rest (Prong NAP Quicktune.. the 33 " was determined from the front of the riser...beginner arrow length. That includes an inch or so longer to start with. Depending on the release I use, and noting my bow does not have a D loop... came with a release though... and as Brad states.. my anchor point.

WTF! I have bagged deer, turkey a bear and a wild boar shooting (fingers) uncut arrows (too long) with an old Martin lynx. Whoa, imagine with all this research, tuning, proper arrow weight/length... what I can do!

 

[Oregon Viking]

A friend of mine is a software designer, having a drink tonight he notices my bow. There is software for choosing the perfect arrow... size, weight, spine.. It also helps tune your bow. I did not know that!!
Every variable taken in to consideration...

The Archery Program - Products

And this is a very interesting article. I'm about damn near sick of learning!! I must have 100 pages of research printed out sitting all over the place! Actually on a cork board right here next to me.....

https://eastonarchery.com/easton-weight-codes-sorting-out-the-mystery/

For years I bagged deer, wild boar a bear and turkeys... using what could be the first compound bow ever made. fingers. Funky sights..(black pins, painted points..) no colored tru-glo. un cut 34 " arrows.. After all this research I better be able to shoot ducks atta the sky!!

 

[Limitool]

"A friend of mine is a software designer, having a drink tonight he notices my bow. There is software for choosing the perfect arrow... size, weight, spine.. It also helps tune your bow. I did not know that!! Every variable taken in to consideration..."

Really...? Does it take in the archers ability to show / prove these choices and variations? Does the software give a starting point upon which the archer has to be and their experience for their "charts" to be accurate?

I know the answer is no and my point is while these charts may be a good / great starting point. Please don't live and "die" by them. For years I set up compound bows, arrows, hunted and shot competitive target archery around the country. AND I'M SURE THERE CHARTS ARE JUST CLOSE... but it's just a generic chart. Who in the hell can find a chart that says for a archer to shoot @ 38 lbs., shoot a 2512, 5" vanes, utilize a 4" over the "proper" draw length and then attach a 175 grain tip! I shot perfect 600 FITA rounds utilizing this setup and many 300/60 spot NFAA rounds.

So here's what I think (so what... right?). Unless your able to at the LEAST put 10 arrows in a row (not 9 out of 10) into just a 3" circle @ just 20 yds. you will NEVER show any of the variations mentioned upon any chart. Most people overthink what they need.... Keep it in the K.I.S.S. mode and just learn through experience. It's easier, MUCH CHEAPER and then it becomes experience which is invaluable.

But hell... maybe I'm way behind the times... But I am building a new .22 target rifle now. Having a blast and most parts picked out.

 

[Oregon Viking]

"A friend of mine is a software designer, having a drink tonight he notices my bow. There is software for choosing the perfect arrow... size, weight, spine.. It also helps tune your bow. I did not know that!! Every variable taken in to consideration..."

Really...? Does it take in the archers ability to show / prove these choices and variations? Does the software give a starting point upon which the archer has to be and their experience for their "charts" to be accurate?

I know the answer is no and my point is while these charts may be a good / great starting point. Please don't live and "die" by them. For years I set up compound bows, arrows, hunted and shot competitive target archery around the country. AND I'M SURE THERE CHARTS ARE JUST CLOSE... but it's just a generic chart. Who in the hell can find a chart that says for a archer to shoot @ 38 lbs., shoot a 2512, 5" vanes, utilize a 4" over the "proper" draw length and then attach a 175 grain tip! I shot perfect 600 FITA rounds utilizing this setup and many 300/60 spot NFAA rounds.

So here's what I think (so what... right?). Unless your able to at the LEAST put 10 arrows in a row (not 9 out of 10) into just a 3" circle @ just 20 yds. you will NEVER show any of the variations mentioned upon any chart. Most people overthink what they need.... Keep it in the K.I.S.S. mode and just learn through experience. It's easier, MUCH CHEAPER and then it becomes experience which is invaluable.

But hell... maybe I'm way behind the times... But I am building a new .22 target rifle now. Having a blast and most parts picked out.

I took a good at the software and noticed it is interactive allowing vane length/weight, arrow weight, tip weight and you shoot then enter the results in to the program. What arrow you are using, diameter, stiffness including brands...
Looks like a lot of fun...or it could be a big pain in the ass!

Screen shots from the software. Click on them to enlarge.







a lot of complication to shoot an arrow....

 

[Limitool]

Somebody is "over-thinking" this simple startup - setup...? Be this hunting, target or 3-D just make a choice and go for it accordingly. Whatever the choice... unless you can put 10 of 10 shots into a 3" circle @ JUST 60 ft. you'll NEVER be able to show a difference going up and down the scale of recommendations. And when I say "just" a 3" target that IS BEING very liberal (hate that word)... smaller is better!

K.I.S.S. mode only... learn... evolve... and turn it into experience. Don't expect to "buy" it, "read" about it or "hear" about it... Just keep it simple. Animals are easy to kill with a bow and it doesn't take 1000 choices to make it happen. This is about all I have to say about this subject... Brad

 

[Oregon Viking]

August 30 deer and elk archery season opens here in Oregon.

I hope she has help or is close to the truck!!
Rocky mountain elk Northeastern Oregon, I will be going after Roosevelt elk.

 

[Peyton Manning]

does she have my number?

 

[Limitool]

Mr. Viking...

Well I got the box being sent now filled with all kind of stuff. Now some of it you might not ever use but you'll have a lot of choices if target or 3-D enters into the future picture. Some is brand new and some is dusty and used but will work perfectly. I send around 10 new T-light gathering pin sights to try...? I also sent a pin sight also. Included are 3 scopes (one brand new). 2 are target scopes and the new one is a hunting scope. Target hardware for all 3 is included. All will require the use of a peep sight if you can utilize one with your vision. I also included a plastic bag with just a bunch of various hardware for the sights.

The best within package is a brand new 3-D BK HUNTER release attached to a used wrist pull nylon strap. Now this release will have to be TOTALLY readjusted to fit you but it is a damn good rope release. You can it with a D-loop or use it around the string serving as a rope release. The trigger is totally adjustable. I shot this release for about 50-100 shots but you can tell it's brand new. DO NOT USE ON YOUR BOW right away. Learn the mechanics then utilize a pencil, pen or something using rope while pulling away manually and "touching" the trigger. The trigger is where I liked it... BUT IT WON'T WORK FOR YOU! Trust me on this statement. The thin nylon string used on release will allow you to put your hand anywhere you'd like and not torque the string while anchoring and releasing. But it will be the touchiest trigger you probably ever tried be it archery or gun (at present setting). You can use the release with or without the wrist strap. We'll talk later...!

Anyway guy.... Care package will be sent out tomorrow morning @ P.O. Box address given to me. Lay it all out and post a pic later of what was sent to ya so others know. Box is about a 12" square.... Have fun guy figuring it all out!!!!! Brad

 

[Oregon Viking]

Thanks Brother Brad!!

 

[Limitool]

My package to you was sent today @ 11:00 am. from TN. Said "should" arrive on Fri. in OR. After ya get it just go though it and what you might utilize. Wish ya was here... I'd set ya up!

Later buddy... Brad