Pancho Villa Treasure

Crow

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Getting back to President Plutarco Elias Calles. 25 September 1877 – 19 October 1945) was a Mexican soldier and politician who served as president of Mexico. from 1924 to 1928. His picture below.

800px-Plutarco_elias_calles.jpg





After the assassination Alvaro Obregon, Elías Calles founded the Institutional Revolutionary Party. He held unofficial power as Mexico's de facto leader from 1929 to 1934, a period known as the Maximato era.

During the Maximato, he served as Secratariat of Public Education Secretary of War again, and Secretary of the Economy. During his presidency, he implemented many populist secularist reforms , opposition to which sparked the Christero War. Our late beloved old man of senora Don Jose told me many things about that war.

In Christero War Catholic churches was stripped of thier wealth and church and state was separated that priests could not hold political office. In 1926, a religious counter-revolutionary movement began in Mexico known as the Christero Rebellion. Mexican Catholics across western-central states rose-up against the government, upset in the implementation of what they considered to be anticlerical articles of the Constitution of 1917. Catholics hated Calles.

Calles's main legacy was the pacification of Mexico, ending the violent era of the Mexican revolution. that saw a revolting door of presidents political parties revolutionist dictators destroy the country over and over.

So what happened to Villa looted treasure?

The answer was complex one as it was dissipated through various regimes and power brokers over time. And merged with other looted gold and treasure over time.


Crow
 

Crow

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And finally it comes to family and descendants of those general and presidents connected and related still had assets looted tucked away going back to the Mexican Civil war. I could elaborate more but as it is not my fish to fry. And my lips are seal amigos. My estimate is about 315 million Dollars give or take depending on fluctuating gold prices.

Even today Mexico being the 7th biggest gold mining country in word had pitiful amount of gold reserves average between 2.5 and 125 tons. For such a large population nation. Records of gold reserves only go back to 1957.

How much gold was lost from theft in Mexican civil war? I do not have the figures but the link below indicate that much of mines owned by Americans and British was plundered and looted or companies held to ransom during that time much went in paying troops. yet much was pilfered by the generals themselves.

Tragedy and Opportunity in Mexican Mining during the Revolution: Stories from the Engineering and Mining Journal

The link above will give some perspective in regards to mines that looted or employees ransomed. It does not take in account ordinary citizens in Mexico or church or various institutions that was plundered. But it gives insight into problems of mining at least.

And you will begin to see the role Emil Lewis Holmdahi had in Mexico. He was not the treasure hunter the papers in the US made out but prospector working for various American mining companies wanting to restart their mines after the civil war.

Here is various census of Emil Lewis Holmdah occupation after be a soldier.

1930 census occupation.

1930 census occpation.JPG


1942 California voter registrations census

calfornia votor registrations 1942.JPG


By 1950 he was retired.

So in conclusion I do think Emil Lewis Holmdah was not a treasure hunter in traditional sense? Just tough as nails no non sense prospector mining supervisor working on behalf of American mining companies wanting reopen their mines after the Mexican Civil war.

Interesting to not Solder for fortune biography seems to make no mention of it at all? Perhaps his personal papers will say other wise? Regardless treasure and treasure hunter are long gone just a footnote in history. Gone amigos but not forgotten.

Crow


 

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sdcfia

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... So in conclusion I do think Emil Lewis Holmdah was a treasure hunter in traditional sense? Just tough as nails no non sense prospector mining supervisor working on behalf of American mining companies wanting reopen their mines after the Mexican Civil war.

Interesting to not Solder for fortune biography seems to make no mention of it at all? Perhaps his personal papers will say other wise? Regardless treasure and treasure hunter are long gone just a footnote in history. Gone amigos but not forgotten.

Crow
Being employed by a mining company trying to reopen mines following a civil war can carry many connotations. With Holmdahl, without better information, I would guess he didn't know ore from bananas. However, I can certainly imagine him as a street-wise red tape eliminator, instructed to get results reopening money sources no matter what they were or what it took.
 

Crow

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Exactly you are 100 percent correct.

In the mining game it is very dirty business and you are only a number. Expendable as the guy next to you. Some of richest prospectors on the planet have never held a pick or shovel.

Some of these guys and women do not make millions but billions. Our institutionalized view of a grizzled old prospector is an image of what the 49ers were an iconic image of the past. Today's prospector live in corporate world number crunching.

There was and still is good money working in the mining game, but too many I worked with thought they were indispensable. But in fact we was only number and if our numbers did not add up we was expendable. I have worked for some of biggest mining companies in world and no matter how loyal you are they are ruthless they will cut your throat in a blink of an eye.

I was just a paid monkey to do the monkey work. I didn't do it some other monkey would no matter how crap the job was. Mining is numbers game, if it costs more to mine than sell it the resource is better left in the ground until commodity prices rise enough for a profit. I had the experience to be on both sides of the whip. You get in work your as off save money and set yourselves up in the boom. And move onto some thing else in the bust.

Glad to be away from it now as most of my jobs have been replaced by technology. IF a company can replace a human by machine they will do it. regardless of industry. Mining in the last 100 years has gone through massive changes. Many open cut mines are becoming more and more automated as well as processioning plants. One process plant I worked at years ago had 15 employees by the time I left there was one person.

The real winners now are shareholders riding the boom retreating in the bust. America and the rest of world are full of abandoned mines and broken dreams. The next boom is rare earth minerals and silver as there is looming shortage of sliver and increasing demand as world tries to decarbonise. Silver is a undervalued commodity. I can see why Warren Buffet buying crap loads of it.

Holmdahl was the right man for the right time and place.

Crow
 

dougachim

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Was that in MX? My old pal, now deceased, did a lot of looking around Durango when he was working down there in the 70s. As he said, "Every Mexican he knew had a Villa treasure story, and they all swore theirs was true."
Nuevo Casas Grandes area, and near the bridge south of Palomas on the Rio Casas Grandes where Pershing had to stop to build a bridge for his new modern army. Everyone has a treasure story, not too many from pancho, mostly some old Padre's lost gold. I saw a cache found, it had 8 silver pieces round, and 8 gold rounds. I am guessing 4 oz each. a couple had hallmarks. and 30 1/4 de Reales copper from the 1830s made in Chihuahua.
 

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sdcfia

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Nuevo Casas Grandes area, and near the bridge south of Palomas on the Rio Casas Grandes where Pershing had to stop to build a bridge for his new modern army. Everyone has a treasure story, not too many from pancho, mostly some old Padre's lost gold. I saw a cache found, it had 8 silver pieces round, and 8 gold rounds. I am guessing 4 oz each. a couple had hallmarks. and 30 1/4 de Reales copper from the 1830s made in Chihuahua.
IMO, most all treasure legends are disinformation of one kind or another.

I have seen one recovery with my own eyes. An old treasure hunter from Clovis showed me and my partner a twenty pound mass of melted double eagles he and his daddy found on a fence line in an old corral. "It's outlaw money. You can handle it, but don't take no pictures," he said.
 

sdcfia

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Exactly you are 100 percent correct.

In the mining game it is very dirty business and you are only a number. Expendable as the guy next to you. Some of richest prospectors on the planet have never held a pick or shovel.

Some of these guys and women do not make millions but billions. Our institutionalized view of a grizzled old prospector is an image of what the 49ers were an iconic image of the past. Today's prospector live in corporate world number crunching.

There was and still is good money working in the mining game, but too many I worked with thought they were indispensable. But in fact we was only number and if our numbers did not add up we was expendable. I have worked for some of biggest mining companies in world and no matter how loyal you are they are ruthless they will cut your throat in a blink of an eye.

I was just a paid monkey to do the monkey work. I didn't do it some other monkey would no matter how crap the job was. Mining is numbers game, if it costs more to mine than sell it the resource is better left in the ground until commodity prices rise enough for a profit. I had the experience to be on both sides of the whip. You get in work your as off save money and set yourselves up in the boom. And move onto some thing else in the bust.

Glad to be away from it now as most of my jobs have been replaced by technology. IF a company can replace a human by machine they will do it. regardless of industry. Mining in the last 100 years has gone through massive changes. Many open cut mines are becoming more and more automated as well as processioning plants. One process plant I worked at years ago had 15 employees by the time I left there was one person.

The real winners now are shareholders riding the boom retreating in the bust. America and the rest of world are full of abandoned mines and broken dreams. The next boom is rare earth minerals and silver as there is looming shortage of sliver and increasing demand as world tries to decarbonise. Silver is a undervalued commodity. I can see why Warren Buffet buying crap loads of it.

Holmdahl was the right man for the right time and place.

Crow
Ha ha, I've been a paid monkey for mining companies too. Once as a totally green underground miner in CO, looking for an adventure and a paycheck, and again as a staff engineer for a big copper mine in NM, this time only needing the paycheck. Both times, I was expendable, yes, but I learned that aspect of life at an early age.

Silver, yes indeed. Rare earth minerals? Huge hype tied to a completely fraudulent premise that I don't see coming to fruition. Of course, I'm likely too old to see where it all shakes out.
 

autofull

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lilorphanannie

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It is amazing the stories attributed to this man Pancho Villa. More amazing are the many people who believe that there are dozens of treasures attributed to him and even more amazing is the belief that most of these treasures are still intact.
What is known and that can be verified is this. Only one "treasure" can be directly connected to Pancho Villa. If you go to Google maps, keyword El Paso ,Tx. and then the address 1/2,331 Leon St. it should take you to what is known as Pancho Villas stash house. It is an historical landmark. If you can scroll through the photos and read the historical marker you will read that @ $500,000 was recovered by agents and returned to Villas surviving family.
Without going into great detail, suffice it to say that Luz Corral, his legal widow did inherit his estate ,which was their final Mexican residence in Chihuahua. Which was turned into a museum There is also a hacienda in Canutillo,Durango also a museum. and where a significant treasure was recovered years ago, hidden by one of his generals Many believe that there is more hidden there,although there is nothing to substiante that.In various personal interviews by reporters interviewing Luz Corral after Pancho Villas death, she repeatedly stated that there were no treasures,if there were he would have told her and she would be looking for them. If his sons or Ms. Corral knew anything at all about treasure they would have had no trouble at all finding backers.Also his two known biological sons had meager low wage jobs
So for my criteria,there is no known treasure attributed to Pancho Villa. I cant tell you the scores of people who are or have searched only based on word of mouth.
As for Thomas Urbina and a few others ,yes, they raped and pillaged and quite a few treasures are associated with them. I believe a couple could actually be uncovered. The story mentioned by one of the persons who commented here, mentioned author Ken Krippene his story is definitely one of them. Although the descriptions are vague, they are discernable if you have physical knowledge of the area then I would say that about 60% of that story can be confirmed and 40% is contradictory. The interesting part is the actual location of the burial site described is a real location,part of the 60%. The conflicting info remains as to exactly what is buried there. and official reports in mining journals reporting of a somewhat similar instance, but where federal troops recovered the stolen merchandise and highgrade ore that was also stolen. Being that this particular story is said to be secret and unknown to anyone prior to this revelation, well ,if one chooses to believe that is true, what we know is that the site exists and only someone who has physically been there could relate that information down to the 515 meters where this treasure was hidden. Mr. Krippenne seems to be a credable author ,he did embellish a lot of his writing for his magazine articles ,but always built around a base of fact. His daughters ,to whom he dedicated that book are both alive and support their fathers integrity with his work. So ,as far as treasure sites go this is an excellent site that would be very inexpensive to confirm. It would be an easy treasure to uncover. the risk and logistical barriers are something else to contend with and overcome.
 

Clay Diggins

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There are obviously good odds that the collection was lost, but depending on where the library was located and who had access to it, maybe not 100%. The fire burned for days, and if the collection was considered important enough to save, possibly someone did.
Not all of that area burned. My house was built in 1888 and wasn't even scorched even though it was across Market from the Mint and is shown as the center of the burn area. Quite a few buildings in SOMA and downtown are still standing and being used today.

From what I understand the length of time the fire burned and what it burned was often down to local politics and money. There is definite hope of survival if the right people owned the library.
 

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Old Bookaroo

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Crow - As always, you are a generous scholar. I appreciate this very much! May I trouble you for the citation?

I'm working up a summary of El Tesoro de Pancho Villa. It's quite a tale - as you well know, even twisted up with the "Four Corners Gold Act Cache" treasure story. Fascinating stuff. Would make a great movie (although I understand there is already one from 1955).

Again, Thank you!

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo
 

Crow

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Crow - As always, you are a generous scholar. I appreciate this very much! May I trouble you for the citation?

I'm working up a summary of El Tesoro de Pancho Villa. It's quite a tale - as you well know, even twisted up with the "Four Corners Gold Act Cache" treasure story. Fascinating stuff. Would make a great movie (although I understand there is already one from 1955).

Again, Thank you!

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo


Madera Mercury, Volume XXXI, Number 46, 17th March 1916.
Common Title: Madera Mercury

Cataloging Titles & Dates of Publication:

Madera Mercury (SN 92069564) 1888-1922
Madera daily Mercury (SN 93053120) 1922-1924
The Madera Mercury (SN 93053121) 1924-1925

Crow
 

Old Bookaroo

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Madera Mercury, Volume XXXI, Number 46, 17th March 1916.
Common Title: Madera Mercury

Cataloging Titles & Dates of Publication:

Madera Mercury (SN 92069564) 1888-1922
Madera daily Mercury (SN 93053120) 1922-1924
The Madera Mercury (SN 93053121) 1924-1925

Crow

Crow - Thank you again! I just don't like going through my files and finding newspaper cuttings with no citation.

Looks to me like Pancho was being blamed for every problem in Texas!

Villa Pink Boll Worm.JPG


Brownsville [Texas] Herald, March 20, 1920 (Vol. XXVI No. 222)

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo
 

Old Bookaroo

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One more:

Villa Treasure.JPG

San Antonio Light (San Antonio, Tex.) April 01, 1924 (Vol. XLIV, No. 73)

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo
 

Crow

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It just goes to show they very notion of buried treasure stirs the vulnerable and perhaps needy in believing in treasure stories with blind faith as if it was religion.

As with all treasure legends the story become the treasure and evolves away from the real events of the time in each retelling of the story..

Newspapers from about 1860 became more tabloid in nature as there was an explosion of newspapers competing for reader ship. Like today with the internet they was the social media of early 20th century.

All these stories added to the mystique of buried treasure connected to Villa.

Crow
 

Old Bookaroo

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It just goes to show they very notion of buried treasure stirs the vulnerable and perhaps needy in believing in treasure stories with blind faith as if it was religion.

As with all treasure legends the story become the treasure and evolves away from the real events of the time in each retelling of the story..

Newspapers from about 1860 became more tabloid in nature as there was an explosion of newspapers competing for reader ship. Like today with the internet they was the social media of early 20th century.

All these stories added to the mystique of buried treasure connected to Villa.

Crow
Crow - Early American newspapers were highly political. The transcribed Lincoln-Douglas debates were tainted by the politics of the newspaper reporting the event - what they said was changed to reflect what that particular paper wanted each of them to have said. The invention of the modern newspaper printing press, and the development of wood pulp paper rather than paper made from linen rags resulted in a huge increase in circulation.

[2.0] The invention of the linotype machine was another very important technological development - newspaper pages were no longer set by hand. However, those in the business still needed to mind their "p's" and "q's."

All of these dramatic changes led, in turn, to mass advertising because the audience was now so large.

No doubt, Pancho Villa was big news in his day. However, there are some very solid foundations for at least some of the treasure yarns...

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo
 

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sdcfia

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Today marks the 60th anniversary of an event that marked a watershed leap from print "journalism" to a truly mass electronic media delivery of "news": instantaneous visible onsite coverage, with live events and people. Radio began the trend 100 years ago with live sound for those who weren't readers, but TV elevated the experience with sight, our strongest and arguably our most believable sense.

Just like newspapers, TV is proficient at informing the public about things such as the upcoming weather, who died and what we should buy, but beyond that is essentially propaganda and storytelling - what you should believe. Now it's the internet, including the site you're now partaking of. As far as "treasure hunting" goes - print, TV or internet - caveat emptor.
 

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