Pipe Found Help ID ? Moved

[Hunter1805]

[h=2]Pipe[/h]

I was in a field and had a signal and dug down looking for the metal and out comes the rarest pipe ever found "So I am told", a contact period Soapstone Pipe with letters on it. It has early colonial European letters on it most likely Jesuit contact around 1550-1650. I understand that No other pipe ever found has letters on it. It has a cross on the back, the letters H and S. We are looking for signers of treaties signed around then to help ID who the pipe was made for or the owners of the pipe. I then looked at the cross on the back and said if it was not a cross and it was a letter such as the letter I then it would read "" I H S "" as on top of the cross "In His Service" Folks I need to know what else you can tell me about it. and the value of such an item. I believe it has potential to be worth many thousands. Its face is that of a snapping turtle. Any private e-mails would also be appreciated. Thanks for looking​

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Last edited by Hunter1805; Jun 03, 2013 at 09:13 PM. Reason: MISSING WORD​

 

[rock]

Thats a neat thing about your pipe.

 

[Hunter1805]

I think it is about time I clean the outside of the pipe removing the dirt from the crevices . Do you guys think water and a tooth brush should be fine without doing any damage? I will leave the inside of the pipe as is.

 

[rock]

Contact your friend and see how to clean it properly or call a museum and ask them. Seeing it is sandstone you will have to be careful with it.

 

[ivan salis]

I H S is latin short hand for -- IN HOC SIGNO in latin -- -- in the sign of the cross we shall conquer * and its used by the JESUITS catholic order to this very day -- old Jesuit Spanish mission type items were often marked with it.--the pipe could be a older hand me down pipe that had these symbols carved into it later on during the time the Jesuits were staying and teaching the indains about the catholic faith -- the cross on it makes good sense , it is "the sign" that is meant by -- "in this sign we shall conquer" -- the story of the saying ( IN HOC SIGNO) goes all the way back to the roman emperor Constantine who just before taking the battlefield in a battle which would decide if he would be killed or made emperor saw a "christen cross" in a vision --he told his men to paint "crosses" on their shields so they would have divine protection and win-although heavily out numbered , he won and converted to being a christen like his mother Helen was -- he was the first christen roman emperor -- and made it a acceptable "official religion" of the roman empire leading to the spread of the catholic faith all over the world.--to many indain tribes the "turtle" was the god creator of earth * so this could be a cross over faith peace --mixing both the old indain "turtle creator" faith with the new Jesuit christen faith . --please for petes sake --DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CLEAN THIS PEACE.

IT IS HARD TO JUDGE THE FISCAL VALUE OF SUCH AN ITEM --BUT IF IT IS INDEED A RELIGIOUS "BRIDGE" PEICE --SHOWING THE CHANGING OVER FROM ONE FAITH TO ANOTHER OR THE BLENDING OF THE TWO FAITHS --THE OLD INDAIN "TURTLE" BASED "CREATOR FAITH" WITH THE NEW CHRISTEN FAITH --IT COULD BE A VERY HISTORICALLY IMPORTANT FIND INDEED.


oh by the way I am catholic .

 

[newnan man]

Do not clean it!

 

[ivan salis]

again do not clean it !!!!!

 

[Hunter1805]

I think I get the message .... I won't clean it. And that's again for your help and comments ... Jim

 

[monsterrack]

Don't know but it is way cool

 

[NC field hunter]

You found a one of a kind international treasure. I think this piece should go banner. GARebel has my favorite banner with his platform pipe. This pipe is pretty darn close. Congrats!!

 

[rock]

I sure am glad you asked about cleaning it before you actually did. Any type of grainy stone if cleaned with any type of brush could damage the patina. You dont want to scrub the age off of it. Just use water to rinse it if you like with NO cleaners.

 

[Charl]

That can be lightly cleaned with no harm whatsoever. Sandstone is not that friable, at least the sandstone it's made of does not look very friable. I do the same with pipes I find that I do with my arrowheads. Run them under water from kitchen sink. Drop a dab of dish washing liquid on a toothbrush and scrub the dirt off. All that will do is remove the dirt, it will never harm patina at all. A little soap and water and a soft toothbrush will be harmless if all you want to do is take dirt off. Of course, it looks great just the way it is, but what I described will do no harm and would never affect the value. rock, not trying to be disagreeable here, it's just that I've cleaned plenty of grainy rocks without damaging patina. We are only talking soap and a soft toothbrush here, not an acid bath for instance. And it won't take much real scrubbing at all, all a toothbrush will do is reach some hard to reach spots. It's really quite harmless. It takes a lot more then dish washing liquid and a soft brush to remove something as ingrained as patina. A whole lot more, really. Look at how grainy the sandstone this crude plummet is made from is. Very grainy. Toothbrush and dish washing liquid cleaned all the dirt off. No harm was done to the patina at all. If the sandstone is so unconsolidated that you can crush it in your hand, then that's the lowest grade of sandstone and you would not expect such a grade to be useful in the first place. Sandstone is consolidated from sand, but it's a rock, not sand itself. Just my 2 centavos....

 

[rock]

I used some dish soap and a tooth brush today to clean some pottery shards I found today. Actually that is how I clean all of my finds. I just wasnt sure on his cause it looked softer.

 

[unclemac]

shouldn't this too be banner?

 

[ivan salis]

yes it should in my view.--very unique item.

 

[Wyoming Valley Relics]

i'd like to see what other (if any) relics are coming off the site. should give you a better idea of where it fits.

 

[GatorBoy]

i'd like to see what other (if any) relics are coming off the site. should give you a better idea of where it fits.

I agree.

 

[GatorBoy]

Association to other artifacts that help to confirm who exactly may have done the carving is everything with an isolated find like that...without solid context.
What items were you finding with your metal detector that brought you to that site?
Could a Spanish man have had that and drop it?
We ...I.. just don't know.
I think it's a great find..but making the jump to..a native copied symbols.. is only guessing.
seems likely a Spaniard found the pipe and personalized it to me.. just guessing here also.

 

[Hunter1805]

Association to other artifacts that help to confirm who exactly may have done the carving is everything with an isolated find like that...without solid context.
What items were you finding with your metal detector that brought you to that site?
Could a Spanish man have had that and drop it?
We ...I.. just don't know.
I think it's a great find..but making the jump to..a native copied symbols.. is only guessing.
seems likely a Spaniard found the pipe and personalized it to me.. just guessing here also.

What lead me to the site. Water !!! In a 1/2 mile of this location I have found over 30 large cents a gold $5.00, Spanish reales, Buttons from the Sullivan campaign buttons form War of 1812. Fields scattered with flint flakes and a valley where thousands of Indians lived, hunted and managed to survive the long cold NY winters. It is a known fact that the Jesuits left Quebec and taught among the Indians for many years. Also found on the ground were many broken points, a bear tooth, musket balls with holes and some flatten, and copper kettle twisted beads. What lead me to the site a small hill and two guys who asked me a simple question" Are you looking for arrowheads ?" I said no! they said there are many up on this hill near the creek, that was all I needed to hear. I found a copper bucket rim with the pipe and digging the copper bucket rim lead to the discovery of the pipe that looked like a black chunk of coal rolling from the shovel.
That my man is my story and I am sticking to it... I will post more pictures of some finds that will really get some peoples heart pumping.

Thanks again for your comments and question.

 

[GatorBoy]

You illustrate my point perfectly.
Many Jesuits here in Florida as well... The same thing would apply. one of my best sites here had artifacts from early archaic to.woodland and mississippian..two different Spanish occupations begining in late 1500's one British occupation contact. Items.
. military items from the early 1800's and a trading post in the late 1800's.. not to mention the fossils.
.
There are many possibilities.
Most Spanish were very religious.. There's no way of knowing one of them didn't find that pipe and carve on it.
The idea of that being What you describe is awesome... But that's not the only explanation.

 

[unclemac]

What lead me to the site. Water !!! In a 1/2 mile of this location I have found over 30 large cents a gold $5.00, Spanish reales, Buttons from the Sullivan campaign buttons form War of 1812. Fields scattered with flint flakes and a valley where thousands of Indians lived, hunted and managed to survive the long cold NY winters. It is a known fact that the Jesuits left Quebec and taught among the Indians for many years. Also found on the ground were many broken points, a bear tooth, musket balls with holes and some flatten, and copper kettle twisted beads. What lead me to the site a small hill and two guys who asked me a simple question" Are you looking for arrowheads ?" I said no! they said there are many up on this hill near the creek, that was all I needed to hear. I found a copper bucket rim with the pipe and digging the copper bucket rim lead to the discovery of the pipe that looked like a black chunk of coal rolling from the shovel.
That my man is my story and I am sticking to it... I will post more pictures of some finds that will really get some peoples heart pumping.

Thanks again for your comments and question.

I LIKE your story! I want more and with details! Your site sounds like a BOOK!