public park access denied for MD?? Help Please!

[jcooking]

I have had this happen twice this year, and both times had the same result. Both times the police kicked me from the public park, complaining that someone was making a mess, and now no one was allowed. I had done my research of city ordinances and it is not prohibited, and the officer agreed to that, but said that it was CRIMINAL MISCHIEF digging a hole because they had previous problems with it (I couldnt help but chuckle that this was considered criminal mischief). I am trying to go through the correct channels to plead the case of the responsible MD. Any advice from you all of points to make or strategies to use when speaking with police chief and city manager would be much appreciated. These over-zealous cops make me feel like a criminal! In my encounter yesterday, the officer even said I was preaching to the choir when justifying my hobby, he agreed that I was properly filling holes and removing all trash found. I know that unfortunately this has been the trend in many places in the country. What has worked well for others with my same problem? Thanks for helping me out and HH (if you have a spot to hunt)
Jon

 

[jmaryt]

I have had this happen twice this year, and both times had the same result. Both times the police kicked me from the public park, complaining that someone was making a mess, and now no one was allowed. I had done my research of city ordinances and it is not prohibited, and the officer agreed to that, but said that it was CRIMINAL MISCHIEF digging a hole because they had previous problems with it (I couldnt help but chuckle that this was considered criminal mischief). I am trying to go through the correct channels to plead the case of the responsible MD. Any advice from you all of points to make or strategies to use when speaking with police chief and city manager would be much appreciated. These over-zealous cops make me feel like a criminal! In my encounter yesterday, the officer even said I was preaching to the choir when justifying my hobby, he agreed that I was properly filling holes and removing all trash found. I know that unfortunately this has been the trend in many places in the country. What has worked well for others with my same problem? Thanks for helping me out and HH (if you have a spot to hunt)
Jon

i feel for you!..really!..been at this over thirty years,and i gotta tell ya it is getting worse!..
this is just an "opinion" on my part,however i feel it is "validated" by many years of experience,and more than
my share of encounters of this kind!..if it was me,..i would attempt to obtain permission for WHOMEVER i could
get it from!..anyone in authority would suffice!..get this in writing!..i would do this only IF the site in your estimation
IS worth hunting!....this type of attitude is prevalent all over the country,and can be attributed to increased "paranoia"
due to the economy,and the terrorist mentality!..people in general,are fearful,because they just do not know WHAT lies ahead!
this is very disconcerting!..

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Unfortunately, we are in an odd-hobby that "catches the eye" when someone sees the guy swinging the wierd geiger-counter-thingy. And once that happens, people ask themselves "just what is he doing?" "will he harm anything?" blah blah. And no matter that you will leave no trace, "image is everything". So even if you have so much as a screwdriver just to probe for shallow clad, you will probably still loose the issue, as powers-that-be just don't want to baby-sit and over-see debates on probe, vs pry, vs dig, vs re-pack, etc... I mean, ask yourself: why should they say "ok"? And this can be true no matter HOW many "yes's" you get from city hall: Those "yes's" will just as quickly be turned to "no's", the instant you mention digging, holes, etc... I have heard of many people who proudly show their "permission", only to have it just as quickly revoked, when some busy-body gardener or cop-in-the-field gets on the phone to city hall and says "well I don't like it" blah blah blah.

My solution to this is: 1) like yourself: if there is nothing specifically disallowing detecting, I just go. I do not consider "defacement" type rules to apply to me/us, because we will [ultimately] leave no trace of our presence. 2) If someone has an issue with that, they are welcome to tell me. In which case, I avoid just that one person, or just that one park, in the future [till I know he's not around]. 3) I go at off-times to avoid such busy-bodies, to begin with. Ie.: at dusk on deserted nights, early AM's, holidays when police are on skeleton staff, and city non-essential staff is all off. And even night-hunting (so peaceful! no kids or busy-bodies )

I know the "avoid busy-bodies" and "just go in the absence of specific prohibitions" will rile some people. But I can assure you: if you, or any of us, thinks they can do this hobby in any public park, school, or beach, while not riling anyone, at any level, they are mistaken. I gaurantee you that if you look long enough and hard enough, you can and will find someone to tell you "no". If not for the digging/defacement bolgona, then for something about cultural heritage. If not for that, then something about "prohibitions of collecting". Therefore: just like how you can never avoid a nut who might flip you off in traffic, so too is there going to be an occasional busy-body in the field whom you can not please

You can certainly fight it, but what may end up happening, is that you will merely get an actual rule created in your town, where none currently exists (ie.: "to address your pressing issue"). And then, instead of it just being one arbitrary cop, and one or two isolated incidents to avoid, you will get un-wanted attention to even the most innocuous of places, where perhaps no one ever cared before.

 

[Sandman]

I feel for you with the problems with closed parks. According to you the park isn't closed to detecting, it is the damaging of the grounds that is the problem many view with detectorist. Mostly we are our own worst enemy with our shovels, Lesche diggers, and trowels. Granted these tools are needed in the farm fields, woods and beaches but many think they have a right to use what they want in a parks grass. With newbies coming into the hobby all the time they start using the trowels and diggers first in the grass and nobody shows them the proper way to retrieve a shallow coin.

I also have over 30 years detecting but was lucky in having a more experienced guy take me under his wing to show me how to use a brass probe and then a screw driver or bread knife to pop the coin out without digging. Now I am using a detector with a screen that shows the depth, if it is deeper than a couple inches, I leave it if I am in the nice grass.

At our parks the detecting was closed years ago and I was able to get them open to detecting. Also it was prohibited to remove plants (mushrooms like Morels). Now that I help manage parks, detecting is allowed and so is hunting for Morels. However we are starting to have trouble with hunters leaving holes in the grass with the trash tossed on top of the dirt pile. There is a strong push to close our parks again. Won't matter if you are using just a screw driver for removing targets. It is the carrying of a metal detector on park grounds that makes you a "Bad Person."

All we can do is educate the ones that insist on digging in the grass and show the good we do to return valuable things to their "prior Owners." Try to get the ones that make the rules to try metal detecting. Hunt during the off hours as Tom says.
Good Luck,
Sandman

 

[George (MN)]

I do things a little differently. If asking to detect, I call police & ask if I could be fined for detecting city parks. If the answer comes back "well maybe if you left a big hole that could injure someone. Other than that, just use your own discretion" then I had permission when city hall just quoted from old book no digging, no removing, no disturbing.

Also, it appears that many of you only detect when nobody is around. If a cop or parkworker shows up that's having a bad day & isn't busy at the time, who do you think they will pick on if nobody else is around?

OTOH, if you detect while park is crowded, others in parks are busy having their fun and park workers and cops may not be so plentiful, especially when ball games are going on. They probably have better things to do than look unreasonable in front of large crowds. The ballgame watchers may also notice me picking up trash and putting it into baskets near them. HH, George (MN)

 

[lizardzman]

Just an idea, but poise your hobby as an attempt to clean the park of razor blades and other sharp metallic objects that may injure the kids. Start a group aimed at keeping the areas like this safe for kids. If you find a few coins, no one would be the wiser.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Send a PM to Tnet member "Mark S."

He has more experience with the legal system and detecting than anyone else on this forum does.


Regards,


Buckles

 

[wwace]

The reality of this situation is you need to be responsible, fill holes, pick up garbage, broken glass the trash you dig etc. Keep this trash with you and next time they harass you just be polite but tell them you are not going to quit detecting as you are doing nothing illegal. They cannot remove you from public property where you are engaged in a LEGAL activity unless you are damaging property or harassing others or creating a safety hazard. Whether or not somebody else left holes does not mean you were, make sure you do not. Police are there to enforce laws and for public safety, thats it. If they persist that you leave then ask for their business cards and go to the police station and ask for the officer or Sargent in charge of the watch and file a complaint. If you are not doing anything wrong you should not have to fear the law. Chances are there is some busybody dogooder who called the cops on you. They would have to have actual evidence of unlawful activity to file any charges. Now if the area you detect looks like a minefield this probably wouldn't be a good idea and I would stay away from there but this is exactly what I would do. Do not break any laws, be polite at all times, keep all trash you pick up with you and do not have anything like an illegal weapon (knifes may even be illegal in your park) and you will be fine. You have exactly the same rights as everyone else, remember that. Any other evidence like photos of the trash you collect over a year can be put to good use also. Avoid lots of people is something I always try to do also. So yeah some people look at us funny and don't understand detecting with ethics but when you are in the right they cannot force you out without changing the rules or laws. Just don't piss of the people who make the rules and you will be fine. This is my opinion only, you may not be comfortable doing this but we have rights, and we need to protect them.