Season 10 - Starts on November 15th, 2022

Charlie P. (NY)

Gold Member
Feb 3, 2006
12,981
17,055
South Central Upstate NY in the foothills of the h
Detector(s) used
Minelab Musketeer Advantage Pro w/8" & 10" DD coils/Fisher F75se(Upgraded to LTD2) w/11" DD, 6.5" concentric & 9.5" NEL Sharpshooter DD coils/Sunray FX-1 Probe & F-Point/Black Widows/Rattler headphone
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Lets look at the basic questions: Who? What? When? Where? Why? How?

For me, I am a coin shooter, so . . .
Who? Me and also those who are seperated from their coins.
What? Coins, very preferably pre 1964.
When? I'm here now but they should have been present pre 1964 or even somewhat later.
Where? I look in areas people would have been using coinage, or possibly hiding savings. Accidental drops can be anywhere. Parks, picnic areas, circus flats and carnival/fairgrounds, foundations, yards, paths, party spots, etc.
Why? For me silver content and age, for them to be placed to spend or possibly hide savings.
How? For me, metal detector, for them accidental loss or forgotten or inability to recover caches.

Now lets look at Oak Island.
Who? Unknown.
What? Unknown.
When? Sometime before 1795.
Where? A depression on Oak Island under a branch with grooves in it.
Why? Unknown.
How? With some devious methodology to place something impossibly deep to recover easily.

Nah.
 

gjb

Full Member
Apr 21, 2016
235
300
UK
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace 300i
Garrett EuroAce
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Lets look at the basic questions: Who? What? When? Where? Why? How?

For me, I am a coin shooter, so . . .

Now lets look at Oak Island.
Where? A depression on Oak Island under a branch with grooves in it.
How? With some devious methodology to place something impossibly deep to recover easily.

Nah.
There are typically huge assumptions in that. Had any deposit been made on the island then it need not necessarily be in the Money Pit, and if it's somewhere else then it could be that it's very easy to recover. So, maybe it really needs more than a coin shooter to figure out what might have taken place.
 

gjb

Full Member
Apr 21, 2016
235
300
UK
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace 300i
Garrett EuroAce
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
The mathematical formula has been discovered, but what if the lines really should have been drawn referenced to the left arm of the cross instead of the right arm? There was some talk that they wanted to investigate the new intersecting 'point' with some exploratory drill holes but Dumas closed that part of the site while they were working. But they should start drilling at the point defined from the other arm...
This could go on forever! I agree that there needs to be some distinct rationale in trying to identify a purpose for Nolan's Cross, but my feeling is that nobody focuses on the obvious anomaly of the design. Cone D just isn't necessary to draw a cross. So, why is it there? Might this have been introduced in order to provide a clue as to what the cross is conveying?

Should Nolan’s Cross be a pure geometrical construction then it’s possible that it could be founded on a well-known Renaissance design that combines the two principal architectural forms of the time based on the triangle and the square - and Cone D could be the pointer to that.
NolansCrossGeometry1.gif

If the distance between H (The Headstone) and D (Cone D) is set at 429 feet (26 British rods in length), as surveyed, then the remaining rounded distances by geometry would be AH = 145 feet, DE = 293 feet and the arms (BH and CH) would be 360 feet (359.5), all as surveyed. The surveyed lengths actually match the construction.

The focal point of the figure would be the mid-point between H and D which, at the same time, is the centre of the outer square, the centre of the circle and the centre of the inner square. Now, take a look at the extended construct from which this has been extracted.
NolansCrossGeometry2.gif

The reason this was considered a significant geometrical design in former times (medieval and Renaissance) is that the inner square is sitting on the base of an equilateral triangle contained within a circle that also contains the outer square. In addition, the centre of the outer circle is also the centre of the equilateral triangles. Thus, everything has the same centre. What’s more, in the pure construction, the length of Ax is the same as BH and HC (the arms of the cross).

Could it be ....? Not according to TCoOI, because this would only be obvious to the educated elites of the 16th to 18th centuries and to students of architectural history or art. The internet (the fount of all current knowledge!) actually does know about it. Simply enter ‘ad triangulum’ and ‘ad quadratum’ into Google.

You’ll see the elements of construction, but not the Cross itself as it’s not the objective of any images I’ve seen on the web to show the two design methods in combination. However, you could construct this yourself and check the math.

I’m not suggesting that there’s necessarily anything at the mid-point thus identified (‘x’ in the first figure), but I’d certainly take a careful look (call in the archaeologists, it's just above the eye of the swamp!)

As observed, it’s actually the presence of Cone D that draws attention to this construction. This point looks to be completely unnecessary. So, maybe it has real significance. It’s only then that one might ask why it’s there at all and why it's where it is.
 
Last edited:

BennyV

Hero Member
Feb 22, 2021
640
1,035
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I’ll stick with my original theory.

Sam Ball found it while cabbage farming. Cut a few local white guys in so they would keep quiet about the find and not have it ripped from his fingers.

As for the who, what, where, when, and why I don’t have a clue. Could have been anyone at anytime.

I like that old lady’s hatch map thingy, but she was a little out there.
 

gjb

Full Member
Apr 21, 2016
235
300
UK
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace 300i
Garrett EuroAce
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I’ll stick with my original theory.

Sam Ball found it while cabbage farming. Cut a few local white guys in so they would keep quiet about the find and not have it ripped from his fingers.

As for the who, what, where, when, and why I don’t have a clue. Could have been anyone at anytime.
That’s certainly an appealing possibility. As most researchers are aware, some have wondered if the Money Pit was a decoy, there being no way to keep the fact of a deposit on the island absolutely secret. So, in this respect, could there have been a small deposit in the Money Pit that was found by Ball, the originator’s plan failing because Ball sensibly kept his find secret?

Of course, that doesn’t help with the who, what, where, when, why and how. I find it very hard to believe that there was a huge treasure in the Money Pit. So much seems to argue against this. In fact, such a mess has been made of the Money Pit area that one has to hope that there wasn’t since it may well been scattered over a huge area.

Even if they find traces of a treasure there’s the distinct possibility that they’ll be unable to find much of it. I assume that's the reason they’re desperately hoping that there was a treasure chamber that survived. I imagine that’s the only reason they continue looking in this area.

The problems of a Money Pit deposit are why I tend to suggest that should there have been a cache then it’s somewhere else, though there’s a great deal of elsewhere on the island. However, I have problems coming up with reasons to believe that it might still be there, though I’m not ruling this out.

So, there’s a certain appeal in your sweet and simple solution. It was there, and it’s gone, but I’d still like to know where it was (or is) and who dunnit!
 
Last edited:

BennyV

Hero Member
Feb 22, 2021
640
1,035
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
That’s certainly an appealing possibility. As most researchers are aware, some have wondered if the Money Pit was a decoy, there being no way to keep the fact of a deposit on the island absolutely secret. So, in this respect, could there have been a small deposit in the Money Pit that was found by Ball, the originator’s plan failing because Ball sensibly kept his find secret?

Of course, that doesn’t help with the who, what, where, when, why and how. I find it very hard to believe that there was a huge treasure in the Money Pit. So much seems to argue against this. In fact, such a mess has been made of the Money Pit area that one has to hope that there wasn’t since it may well been scattered over a huge area.

Even if they find traces of a treasure there’s the distinct possibility that they’ll be unable to find much of it. I assume that's the reason they’re desperately hoping that there was a treasure chamber that survived. I imagine that’s the only reason they continue looking in this area.

The problems of a Money Pit deposit are why I tend to suggest that should there have been a cache then it’s somewhere else, but there’s a great deal of elsewhere on the island. However, I have problems coming up with reasons to believe that it might still be there, though I’m not ruling this out.

So, there’s a certain appeal in your sweet and simple solution. It was there, and it’s gone, but I’d still like to know where it was and who dunnit!
Great points made.

As far as the size of the treasure. A few small chests would be life changing for a cabbage farmer. So let’s say the three original finders “found” 3 chests and Samuel Ball had another 3-10 squirreled away somewhere. He’d be set for life.

The skeptic in me says if it was a larger treasure the fellowship of the dig or more likely just Gary would have found some coins/jewelers made of gold or silver. That semiprecious stone stuff doesn’t really do much for me. They should really bring in a team of detectorist and absolutely hammer the entire island 5 times over. Dig high potential targets ASAP. They might be doing this already. Not sure.

The gold/silver in the water samples they found is interesting, but I want to see some actual coinage. Could answer a lot of the questions we have.
 

bjw

Full Member
Feb 2, 2006
170
41
Fleetwood, PA
Detector(s) used
X5 Tesoro DFX
At the onset please forgive me for the length of this comment/opinion. Many years ago I read a story in Readers Digest that really fascinated me! It was about an island where it was believed that pirate treasure had been buried! Yes, it was Oak Island,

Years later on a motorcycle journey I visited the island. And as is so often the case it was a huge disappointment! There was a filled in hole and enough rusty machinery to be described as a junk yard.

That brings me to the present. After following the TV show since its beginning I need to give my honest opinion. It has become an excuse to achieve money! To convince viewers of the honesty and integrity of the project while producing one show after another that has no real proof it does exit! However the “actors” are gainfully employed. Maybe that is good thing. And maybe the treasure exists. I hope so. Not for the Brothers. For those of us who desperately clung to hope it does!
 

Readyman

Tenderfoot
Mar 3, 2021
5
2
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
That’s certainly an appealing possibility. As most researchers are aware, some have wondered if the Money Pit was a decoy, there being no way to keep the fact of a deposit on the island absolutely secret. So, in this respect, could there have been a small deposit in the Money Pit that was found by Ball, the originator’s plan failing because Ball sensibly kept his find secret?

Of course, that doesn’t help with the who, what, where, when, why and how. I find it very hard to believe that there was a huge treasure in the Money Pit. So much seems to argue against this. In fact, such a mess has been made of the Money Pit area that one has to hope that there wasn’t since it may well been scattered over a huge area.

Even if they find traces of a treasure there’s the distinct possibility that they’ll be unable to find much of it. I assume that's the reason they’re desperately hoping that there was a treasure chamber that survived. I imagine that’s the only reason they continue looking in this area.

The problems of a Money Pit deposit are why I tend to suggest that should there have been a cache then it’s somewhere else, though there’s a great deal of elsewhere on the island. However, I have problems coming up with reasons to believe that it might still be there, though I’m not ruling this out.

So, there’s a certain appeal in your sweet and simple solution. It was there, and it’s gone, but I’d still like to know where it was (or is) and who dunnit!
Maybe there never was treasure was in the money pit. Then what was the shaft's purpose?
Carbon dating the deep timbers, this project goes way, way back, at a time when Oak Island was basically at the end of the world.
Who would build a deep shaft to bedrock, on an island at the end of the world, with sea drains to flood it(with a practical purpose or for a booby trap?) and whole 'deep shaft' project for what purpose?
Shaft, timbers, sea drains, would take a small army of workers, it was so secret that no records were kept and any documenting witnesses-eliminated.

Whatever is down there was never supposed to be recovered.
It was buried in a wilderness as far from civilization(Europe) as possible, in a deep shaft(to bedrock) hiding place, with sea drain flooding systems to keep everyone out.
Nolan's Cross, stone roads and carved rocks are just the graffiti and mementos of the original depositors, not landmarks to a treasure.
 

gjb

Full Member
Apr 21, 2016
235
300
UK
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace 300i
Garrett EuroAce
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Maybe there never was treasure was in the money pit. Then what was the shaft's purpose?
Carbon dating the deep timbers, this project goes way, way back, at a time when Oak Island was basically at the end of the world.
Who would build a deep shaft to bedrock, on an island at the end of the world, with sea drains to flood it(with a practical purpose or for a booby trap?) and whole 'deep shaft' project for what purpose?
Unfortunately, a lot of assumptions concerning Oak Island are presented as fact which then forms the basis of even further loose conjecture. Some of your questions and observations have been addressed by researchers over the years, but you’d have to read a great deal of Oak Island literature in order to be aware of this.

For example, it’s been suggested that the Money Pit may have been a searcher shaft. That’s to say that people who were aware that there was a treasure buried on the island dug the shaft and associated tunnels in order to look for it. Had this been the case then there would be no treasure in the Money Pit.

Consider also that just because there was water in the Money Pit when it was opened doesn’t necessarily mean that there was water there when those who excavated it left the island. It does seem that water was carried inland through tunnels, but was the intent to lead water to the Money Pit? What if water had broken into a tunnel linked to the Money Pit that was intended to remain dry?

So, the Money Pit may not have contained treasure and it may not even have been protected by water. Alternatively, what if the Money Pit was an exploratory shaft to see what the ground was like for tunnelling and to determine the depth at which bedrock would be found? Maybe the originator didn’t know exactly what he was going to do underground until he’d excavated the Money Pit. Once he’d done so, he could use it for any purpose he chose and incorporate it into his plans.

It’s reported that no attempt was made to hide the Money Pit - quite to the contrary, its location was broadcast to all and sundry. Had there been a vast treasure in the pit wouldn’t it have been sensible to erase all trace of excavation?

Note that the Money Pit is reported to have had platforms at ten feet intervals. It might be assumed that this was to spread the weight of the soil so that the pit wouldn’t collapse. If there was a deposit that was never to be recovered why do that? The platforms seem to argue that the pit was to be reused.

Note also that the dating of timber tells us roughly when it might have been removed or when a part died, and the age of portions of the tree varies. It doesn’t tell us how long it had been lying around before it was used, it doesn’t tell us how long it was in use for after that nor how much time passed following its use before it ended up where it was found nor how it did so and when. Furthermore, we generally know nothing about the context.

There’s a great deal more to the Oak Island mystery than you’ve picked up on, and perhaps the last thing anyone should do is to declare that they definitely have the answer to any of the questions it raises.
 
Last edited:

MikeN

Sr. Member
Feb 22, 2017
455
534
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
This week they drilled into the "baby blob", the location of highest concentration of interesting metals. Found some genuine treasure by the old well.
They're starting to show some of the work in the Garden Shaft. They got to tour 50 feet down in the Garden Shaft. It's still a mystery to me why the shaft doesn't flood. ... next week they discover some wood with gold IN the wood.
 

gjb

Full Member
Apr 21, 2016
235
300
UK
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace 300i
Garrett EuroAce
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
This week they drilled into the "baby blob", the location of highest concentration of interesting metals. Found some genuine treasure by the old well.
They're starting to show some of the work in the Garden Shaft. They got to tour 50 feet down in the Garden Shaft. It's still a mystery to me why the shaft doesn't flood. ... next week they discover some wood with gold IN the wood.
I hope they’re finally onto something that might address whether there may ever have been treasure of any sort on Oak Island - even if they’re only finding the empty packing cases in which it was stored!
 

BennyV

Hero Member
Feb 22, 2021
640
1,035
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
That item they found last night was rather cool. Most of the finds are usually utilitarian in nature. This one seems to be something much different. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
 

gjb

Full Member
Apr 21, 2016
235
300
UK
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace 300i
Garrett EuroAce
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
That item they found last night was rather cool. Most of the finds are usually utilitarian in nature. This one seems to be something much different. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Thanks, I have to wait a while to catch up and generally get my weekly news and fix from the super-cynics and comedians on reddit. I take it that Gary's find might be a brooch / broach?
 

BennyV

Hero Member
Feb 22, 2021
640
1,035
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Thanks, I have to wait a while to catch up and generally get my weekly news and fix from the super-cynics and comedians on reddit. I take it that Gary's find might be a brooch / broach?
Looks like it based on the scans. Hopefully they get us some more info on the next episode.
 

gazzahk

Bronze Member
Nov 14, 2015
1,704
2,549
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Over the last few years, the team has already drilled plenty of times into the blob area and has even drilled six times into the baby blob. Each time, finding nothing of real value....... It is important to remember that it is still quite a wide area, and perhaps, they just missed the treasure by inches.....
Great we are now inches away. Must mean that massive hoard of gold and other metals has stayed hidden despite all those holes so close to each other. Only answer is a deep long pipe like shaft less then a a few inches wide.

Oh well next week we will see the treasure for sure!

 

MikeN

Sr. Member
Feb 22, 2017
455
534
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Last week's treasure was found to have a Fleur de Lis - therefore possibly Templar.

The discovery of a handcrafted ladder makes the Garden Shaft worthwhile - from an archeological point of view. While the age isn't yet known, direct inspection in the shaft enabled a recovery without the hammer grab crunching it into pieces. I don't recall them recovering any large intact piece like this ladder before in the money pit area.

The talk of offset drilling the side of the Garden Shaft has me once again puzzled - they're just feet away from the 90 foot void filled with water. How would they deal with that if the drill breaks into that chamber and springs a geyser of water.

A piece of wood from the Baby Blob drill has gold on the surface - which shouldn't exist in that location.
 

gjb

Full Member
Apr 21, 2016
235
300
UK
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace 300i
Garrett EuroAce
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Last week's treasure was found to have a Fleur de Lis - therefore possibly Templar.
Thanks for the summary. They're really pushing this Templar business. I may have missed something, but do they really believe that the project is medieval in origin - or perhaps that some later group, such as having links to a Masonic Templar order, may have been involved?

Is this just a line that History wants to push for ratings - and the fellowship is simply tagging along for the cameras - riding on the back of widespread public interest in The Da Vinci Code and Rennes-le-Château?

I really have trouble getting my head round a possible Templar involvement simply on the level of scientific knowledge if they were truly messing with hydrostatics on Oak Island.

Was the originator a medieval bungler who just happened to strike lucky or did he know what he was doing with water and gas (air) under pressure? If he did, then this is surely happening after 1650 and probably a good way after 1680!
 

MikeN

Sr. Member
Feb 22, 2017
455
534
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
The variety of finds are confounding - I'd be happy if they could find a cluster of objects that clearly pointed to a date and type of people doing a specific task.
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top