She was only 3 days old.

Bigcypresshunter

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I posted this here last year, but have yet to positively ID. We have some new members and I could get some new thoughts. It is silver and very THIN like a tag and the size of a quarter. Its hand engraved on the front in Old English copperplate script:

Jo-Ann L. Hall
12-30-43--1-2-44


There are some official looking numbers on the back: G-1506.

The back is also hand engraved. The numbers may coincide with a US military grave plot but what cemetery?... :dontknow: What century? :dontknow:

Plot G- Row 15- Grave 06? :dontknow:
 

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G.I.B.

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Duly noted but the null hypothesis has been rejected with above 95% certainty.

Why? It's still a theory. Nothing has been proven otherwise.

I think you took the term junk too literally, and were offended by it. I believe it meant more along the lines of no inherent obvious value to anyone other than the owner.

People pick something up. They decide what they think it is, and then go about proving themselves correct. The Null hypothesis, in it's most basic terms, means that you don't know what you have.

Let the item speak for itself with facts.

This morning I correctly identified a toaster, coffee cup and toilet. (not necessarily in that order) I can correctly identify thousands of items from bowling balls to bobby pins- it only means I am qualified in looking stuff up, not the correct identification of one specific type of item, i.e. and expert in gem identification.

As none of us (apparently) have no singular expertise in this specific item, it's a learning event for everyone with no one person being any more qualified to speak to it's positive identification without supportive facts, than anyone else irregardless of previous identifications.

I hope I don't pee in my coffee cup now...
 
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G.I.B.

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#12 is not proven. The fonts and styles are different. It's only an assumption that it was done by the same person. The numerical side of the tag could have been from anything from a Sotheby's auction to a funeral crypt. We simply don't know, which invalidates #13.

Question: Was this engraving method utilized in 1843/44?

It's a given that it was used in 1943/44, can we narrow down a century?
 
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Bigcypresshunter

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Question: Was this engraving method utilized in 1843/44?
Yes it was.

It's a given that it was used in 1943/44, can we narrow down a century?
No we cannot narrow down a century yet but its at least 70 years old.


Its a silver item that was artistically engraved with a name and dates. We dont know the century or what the number on the back means yet because its a work in progress. Its a horrible idea to label vintage or antique items as junk. Hopefully I can return this item to a living relative, who would undoubtedly appreciate it more than you.
.
Null hypothesis: Bigcypress hunter possesses nothing other then a piece of junk..
Silver love tokens or vintage one-of-a-kind engraved items are NOT junk. I would rather find a love token than a silver quarter. So the null hypothesis is obviously rejected. And if you cant understand that, I would have to question your motive for trying to help me. Because at this point you are not helping.


Glad to hear you are making some IDs GIB on the toaster, coffee cup and toilet. Thanks again for the tie theory. We researched it and it doesnt seem to fit. Its not an Fo, its an L.

Glad to hear you are saving lives crispin. I always wondered. (wink)
 
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Bigcypresshunter

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This morning I correctly identified a toaster, coffee cup and toilet. (not necessarily in that order) I can correctly identify thousands of items from bowling balls to bobby pins- it only means I am qualified in looking stuff up, not the correct identification of one specific type of item, i.e. and expert in gem identification.

As none of us (apparently) have no singular expertise in this specific item, it's a learning event for everyone with no one person being any more qualified to speak to it's positive identification without supportive facts, than anyone else irregardless of previous identifications.

.
Well I have been collecting, buying and selling antiquities for 50 years but I guess that doesnt count. I only learned how to use the internet when I joined TreasureNet but I wouldnt have the nerve to state that I am as qualified as crispin in being a doctor as he obviously has more experience in that department and I have none. Your statement that nobody has any singular expertise in copper script, love tokens, old coins or sweetheart tokens is just not true. We even had a cremationist comment here on this thread.

We are all learning, true, but we all have different levels of expertise that can help ID this item. If this had gems in it, we would look to you for answers. Thats why the system works here at Treasurenet. And it doesnt need fixed or changed.

Can we all assume its at least 70 years old? Add that to the list and the null hypothesis is rejected. The worst it could be is a World War II era sweetheart token. We need to move past this null hypothesis. We are not testing a new medication.
 
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Im not usually one to post in this area of T-Net. Please dismiss my post if it has no use....

Instead of "H" like in Hall, it kinda looks like a fancy "K". seen here

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/LetterK250.jpg

Also, some other things it looked like to me as far as letters are concerned are these:

Latball, Latbell, Lotbell, Latbull. I dont know, im just taking shots in the dark...
 
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Crispin

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Yes it was.

No we cannot narrow down a century yet but its at least 70 years old.


Its a silver item that was artistically engraved with a name and dates. We dont know the century or what the number on the back means yet because its a work in progress. Its a horrible idea to label vintage or antique items as junk. Hopefully I can return this item to a living relative, who would undoubtedly appreciate it more than you.
.
Silver love tokens or vintage one-of-a-kind engraved items are NOT junk. I would rather find a love token than a silver quarter. So the null hypothesis is obviously rejected. And if you cant understand that, I would have to question your motive for trying to help me. Because at this point you are not helping.


Glad to hear you are making some IDs GIB on the toaster, coffee cup and toilet. Thanks again for the tie theory. We researched it and it doesnt seem to fit. Its not an Fo, its an L.

Glad to hear you are saving lives crispin. I always wondered. (wink)

Wow, you totally misunderstood what I was trying to do there. I was just throwing out a word. I would like to revise the null hypothesis to more adequately reflect the nature of said object.

Null hypothesis: BigCypress has an object that cannot be identified.

That is literally, all I was trying to express. Did you read the rest of the post? I was taking it very seriously.

So let's add number 9.

9. We know the object is at least 70 years old

FYI: I respect the process of identifying things on TNET and, by no means, am I advocating discarding it. I was simply suggesting we do a trial run of the scientific method on this particular piece since this thread was created years ago and it is still unsolved.

Famous last words before getting fired: "This is the way we have done it for years and this is the way we will always do it." That thought has destroyed more people then the plague.
 
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Crispin

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Im not usually one to post in this area of T-Net. Please dismiss my post if it has no use....

Instead of "H" like in Hall, it kinda looks like a fancy "K". seen here

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/LetterK250.jpg

Also, some other things it looked like to me as far as letters are concerned are these:

Latball, Latbell, Lotbell, Latbull. I dont know, im just taking shots in the dark...

Thanks for contributing. I wish more people would comment.
 
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G.I.B.

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The object is at least 70 years old. But equally as possible, it is 170 years old.

Bigcypress, you have a theory, and thereby reject anything that does not support that theory. Closed minded in my opinion, so you apparently are not actually looking for new information, just supportive information that goes along your lines of speculation and belief.



Best of luck with your endeavors.

I don't believe I can contribute anything to your quest.

So long, I wish you the best in which you seek.
 
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Bigcypresshunter

Bigcypresshunter

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Bigcypress, you have a theory, and thereby reject anything that does not support that theory. Closed minded in my opinion, so you apparently are not actually looking for new information, just supportive information that goes along your lines of speculation and belief.



Best of luck with your endeavors.

I don't believe I can contribute anything to your quest.

So long, I wish you the best in which you seek.

Absolutely false accusation. I dont turn down any clue and I never did. You are making me angry GIB but I would imagine that is your sole intention of posting here. Go troll somewhere else.

True, you cant contribute much to my post. I have taken a lot of time to explain to you why your suggestions do not fit, but you just dont get it. So you are either out for revenge or your comprehension is severely lacking.
 
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Bigcypresshunter

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Wow, you totally misunderstood what I was trying to do there. I was just throwing out a word. I would like to revise the null hypothesis to more adequately reflect the nature of said object.

Null hypothesis: BigCypress has an object that cannot be identified.

That is literally, all I was trying to express. Did you read the rest of the post? I was taking it very seriously.

So let's add number 9.

9. We know the object is at least 70 years old

FYI: I respect the process of identifying things on TNET and, by no means, am I advocating discarding it. I was simply suggesting we do a trial run of the scientific method on this particular piece since this thread was created years ago and it is still unsolved.

Famous last words before getting fired: "This is the way we have done it for years and this is the way we will always do it." That thought has destroyed more people then the plague.

Ok fair enough but I think the thread has run its course. I read everything thats been posted, because its my thread, but when the thread gets this long, we often go backwards because its too much to read, for most members.


IMO it has most likely already been IDed we just haven't proven any one of the possibilities. Make your list if you want but dont use the word "junk". I think its very rude to call my item "junk" just because you dont like me.
 
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Bigcypress, you have a theory, and thereby reject anything that does not support that theory. Closed minded in my opinion, so you apparently are not actually looking for new information, just supportive information that goes along your lines of speculation and belief.



.
GIB I seriously believe you are trying to make me angry. Where it will end, I dont know. Maybe we need a moderator? I truly believe you are out for revenge because I stated your melted blob may not be an Indian artifact on another thread.


But before you go away, tell me what theory am I rejecting? Seriously. Where am I being close minded????

Its either a WWII era sweetheart tag, 20th century urn tag, coffin tag, marriage token, foundling token, love token, or Mothers memento for her deceased child. The possibility exists that it may be 19th century.
 
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Breezie found a grave in North Carolina of a deceased child (infant daughter) named Jo Ann Hall born in 1943 and died in 1944. This should be investigated further IMO and Im not trying to be close minded. I think its a great lead. Both parents are deceased. So far Breezie has not located the phone number or address of a living relative.

I dont know anything about Geneology searches. If anyone can help, please do. Thanks.

jo Ann Hall cemetary.jpg
 
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Its either a WWII era sweetheart tag, 20th century urn tag, coffin tag, marriage token, foundling token, love token, or Mothers memento for her deceased child.
...and those are the perimeters of the identification search, which must be eliminated one by one.
This one may never be resolved, BCH, but HH!
 
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...and those are the perimeters of the identification search, which must be eliminated one by one.
This one may never be resolved, BCH, but HH!

It was just a quick list. I may be missing a few. I have already eliminated cremation tag. I would think a marriage token would have 2 names.


After 10 years of studying this tag, under magnification, I truly believe it says Jo-Ann L. Hall because the first letter dips well below the line but I am keeping open the possibility that its To:- Ann L. Hall so sweetheart tag probably cannot be eliminated.

I have yet to find a foundling or love token with 2 dates.


treasure beach finds contrast resize (1).jpg
 
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OK I have calmed down now. But a person can only take so much. Everyone has their breaking point.
 
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Im not usually one to post in this area of T-Net. Please dismiss my post if it has no use....

Instead of "H" like in Hall, it kinda looks like a fancy "K". seen here

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/LetterK250.jpg

Also, some other things it looked like to me as far as letters are concerned are these:

Latball, Latbell, Lotbell, Latbull. I dont know, im just taking shots in the dark...

Yes I agree it resembles a K. But one thing that helped me discover the correct identity of these script letters is by reading the link and following the blue arrows in post #333. If you try to trace out these letters, as if you, yourself, were the engraver, it helps tremendously in making proper identification. Yes fancy copper script is not easy and it takes patience and experience but try my suggestion. If I follow the direction arrows on an H and a K, its more likely to be H.

Charlie P. has shown the same fancyL just a few posts back #330. Im not going to repeat it all. There is no lowercase vowel after the L. Its just a loop(see below) Same thing, trace it out yourself. That is not the direction you use to make an a or an o. There is also a distinct period.

script L.jpg

ADDED: I didnt mean to brush you off. I will study the other suggestions but because there is no vowel after L. it would seem to rule out those possibilities.

script La.png
 

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BCH, you know I enjoy the deep research, but this one has me baffled.

Its a lot to read. I apologize for that. There is also 2 separate threads. I have considered every clue. We find the grave, we contact a relative and it will be solved. But I don't have any experience searching Genealogy.

A few tidbits of information: A man that worked at a funeral home, all his life, told me he has seen these silver coffin tags but he didn't post back, with a matching example. My friend sent it in the mail and an Archaeologist confirmed it and told us its a grave plot number on the backside. I cannot rule out the possibility that it may be a birth and death date even if I wanted to.
I have been accused of being close minded, but I am keeping the Sweetheart tag/3 days of fun theory open. However the back number is also hand engraved and considering the time it took to center it so nicely, I think its more than a gift number.
 
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ivan salis

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I am thinking a 3 day old child that died during WW2 was cremated and ashes dumped into the ocean --its a silver creamation tag that ided the ashs and was in the ashes bag / box when dumped into the ocean..
 
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