She was only 3 days old.

Bigcypresshunter

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I posted this here last year, but have yet to positively ID. We have some new members and I could get some new thoughts. It is silver and very THIN like a tag and the size of a quarter. Its hand engraved on the front in Old English copperplate script:

Jo-Ann L. Hall
12-30-43--1-2-44


There are some official looking numbers on the back: G-1506.

The back is also hand engraved. The numbers may coincide with a US military grave plot but what cemetery?... :dontknow: What century? :dontknow:

Plot G- Row 15- Grave 06? :dontknow:
 

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Crispin

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Crispin

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Ha Ha I just quickly read this but you seem to not be taking your own advice. Example: I always assume silver found is NOT Spanish treasure, then I look for enough evidence to support it. In your case, I hadnt found enough evidence but I was trying, on your behalf.

Crispin your a smarter man than I give you credit for. Now try and follow your own advice.

We have been making IDs on this forum long before you got here. I take exception to the comment that we are a failure or we are doing something wrong. I think your comment is way out of line and unfounded. Unless I misunderstood, you not only insulted me but you insulted the entire forum.

Well thats my 2 cents.

You misunderstood...
 

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G.I.B.

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The letter G could be from a maintenance tag- 1506 being the item number, or serial number of any manner of military equipment.

If the tag is actually silver, the military would not have used it for this... How was the tag tested for the 90% silver content you referenced earlier?

Screen Shot 2015-08-16 at 9.00.55 AM.png
Screen Shot 2015-08-16 at 9.01.57 AM.png
 

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Reed Lukens

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The Naval Tracking Station is right on the beach at the exact location and I think I read it was used for Navy Seal training in WWII. Its now a park. WWW.IRCGOV.COM - Indian River County Board of County Commissioners - Public Works - Parks Maintenance Division - Oceanfront Parks - Tracking Station Beachfront Park Yes I think its some kind of official number but I dont understand why its not machine stamped. Anything is possible.
Thanks for the help and the link.

Actually the Navy Seals were started in 1962 by President Kennedy. Yes sometimes they list WWII as their origins but that's just want to be... The Special Op's and Black op's in WWII weren't always given weapons other than their swimming skills and a knife. So there's a big difference. I say this because after my stepdad got out, he sometimes would get really pissed off when he would see the Seals trying to lay claim that they were around in WWII and then he would go off and tell how they would get dropped off with nothing more than a knife in the middle of the night and told to go kill. So I say this in his memory because the Seals have always had the best weapons at their disposal. The Seals weren't just dumped on an island full of Japanese soldiers with a knife and told to kill them all. Not in or after 1962 anyway. So there's a big difference between the Black Op's, Special Op's commando's of WWII. The Seal's are great and I'm not wanting to discredit them in any way but comparing them to the guys back in WWII really doesn't do either of them justice. They are two completely separate types of ops.

Navy SEAL History | Navy SEALs
 

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Plug N Play

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Perhaps it came with a key ... family plot, gate ... mausoleum door ... door 1506, holding the urn ... ?

Also ... Is it ruled out that she may have died three days after her hundredth birthday ?
 

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Bigcypresshunter

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The letter G could be from a maintenance tag- 1506 being the item number, or serial number of any manner of military equipment.

If the tag is actually silver, the military would not have used it for this... How was the tag tested for the 90% silver content you referenced earlier?
I put small drop of Potassium Dichromate/Nitric Acid/distilled water solution directly on the coin and it turned a bright red. Is there any other way to test silver lol? Looking for the red color, IMO, and in the opinion of almost everybody else in the business, of testing silver for melt, will use this method. I dont use the ice, spit, chlorox, tinfoil, or ringing tests. There is only one test you need to learn and I wrote a long thread specifically on this to help TN members test their unknown metal blobs. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/472230-silver-tips-acid-testing.html However this method will stain the item but I did it anyway to be sure it was silver.

If I had any doubt I would take it to a pawn shop for a second opinion. But there is no doubt in my mind GIB as I have had experience recognizing and testing metals with this solution. Its called Schwerter's Testing Solution and I mix my own batch. http://www.sciencecompany.com/How-to-Test-Gold-Silver-and-Other-Precious-Metals.aspx However it was a long time and Im not sure the percentage but judging by the red color, its at least 90 percent.


The number could be maintenance tag if it wasnt silver or didnt have someones name engraved in fancy lettering on the other side. I have IDed many maintenance tags here at TN and I have worked in maintenance all my life. . This is not a maintenance tag.
 

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Bigcypresshunter

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Perhaps it came with a key ... family plot, gate ... mausoleum door ... door 1506, holding the urn ... ?

Also ... Is it ruled out that she may have died three days after her hundredth birthday ?
It was years ago so my memory may be fading but my friend sent the tag away to some Archies to have it identified and they concluded it was a Grave plot number but because I havent located the grave or the deceased, I am looking for help and/or other suggestions. The urn tag is a good one. Yes it may have come with a key.

Her 100th beirthday? I dont know. If this tag celebrated her 100th birthday, I think it would only have one date.


Actually the Navy Seals were started in 1962 by President Kennedy. Yes sometimes they list WWII as their origins but that's just want to be...

Sorry Reed Lukens about the Navy Seal comment. I was just repeating what I read. Any future mention of the area, I will just simply say this beach was used for bombing/beach landing and/or training exercises in 1944 by the US Navy.. I was being hit from all sides yesterday and I was trying to reply to everbody as fast as I could.
 

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Bigcypresshunter

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OK guys I have been doing some studying on Ligature Ties being used in Typography. Fonts, typefaces and all things typographical ? I love Typography (ILT)

Here are some examples of ligatures and ties. ligatures-mrs-eaves.gif

This is what was baffling me last night but I didnt get around to it. Liigature ties connect 2 or more letters to a single body.. For example "s⁀t" represents the concatenation sequence of sequences called s and t.

In my case, the tie seems to connect the uppercase L and the uppercase H. There may or may not be an o in between. So the concatenation sequence of letters must contain an L and H. I dont see how this could be Lo (Love) or Fo (From). Doesnt there have to be an H in the word? Show me an example because I havent found a similar example.

treasure beach finds contrast resize (1) crop.jpg
 

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Bigcypresshunter

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Quote Originally Posted by Crispin
It appears that most people on this site work the opposite. They come up with a theory that shows a cause and then reject all evidence that opposes it. This type of thinking fails at its very core.

OK maybe we both misunderstood. But we do not reject all evidence. So-called evidence only gets rejected if it doesnt fit. If we didnt toss out bad suggestions, we would never solve anything.

BTW thanks for the suggestion on ligature ties crispin and GIB. . I appreciate it. Seriously. Besides the null hypothesis, I have been studying ligatures, ties in particular, but I dont think it fits. It appears the L and the H are tied together. So the word has to start with L and end with H. I think the part that resembles a tie is just a fancy loop on the L.

ties typography.png
 

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C TROOPER

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First thought is find a handwriting expert... they will be able to give a time frame of when that style of writing was used... Cursive writing (letter) styles change over time.... If the time frame can be narrowed down, then you might try a geneology search to track down Hall... try a local geneology group for assistance.... I volunteer at one and I enjoy the challenge of searching for long lost relatives for folks...another idea is to find the older cemetaries in the area to find Hall... even longer long shot !!!!!!!!!
 

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Bigcypresshunter

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First thought is find a handwriting expert... they will be able to give a time frame of when that style of writing was used... Cursive writing (letter) styles change over time.... If the time frame can be narrowed down, then you might try a geneology search to track down Hall... try a local geneology group for assistance.... I volunteer at one and I enjoy the challenge of searching for long lost relatives for folks...another idea is to find the older cemetaries in the area to find Hall... even longer long shot !!!!!!!!!
I figure its either 1844 or 1944.
 

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Bigcypresshunter

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Yeppers, I figured that and have included 1784 too.... Doing some online diggin now.... Is the last name Hall, Hull, or La Hall or La Hull ?

There has been some debate but after close scrutinizing with a loupe for 10 years, I believe it to be:


Jo-Ann L. Hall
12-30-43--1-2-44



I found it in Florida but there are no matches on the Florida Death Index.

The back is also hand engraved. G-1506 The numbers may coincide with a US military grave plot.

Plot G- Row 15- Grave 06?


But this is just speculation as it hasnt been found. Breezie found a possible match of an "infant daughter" Jo-Ann Hall in North Carolina in an 1943/1944 geneology search but she trying to locate a family member as Lex and Ruby Hall are both deceased.

Can you check North Carolina? She says it came up on the 1943/44 search but I read it as birth and death dates unknown. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=33958361&ref=acom That may mean that the date is not marked on the gravestone plot A-8.. But if this infant child really was born in 43 and died in 44 she must be our girl.



jo Ann Hall  unknown dates.jpg
 

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Doubter in MD

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<snip>

Her 100th beirthday? I dont know. If this tag celebrated her 100th birthday, I think it would only have one date.
I think you misunderstood. He was asking if this could have been the tag for someone who lived 100 years and three days as opposed to just three days.
 

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Bigcypresshunter

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<snip>


I think you misunderstood. He was asking if this could have been the tag for someone who lived 100 years and three days as opposed to just three days.
Ooooh I did misunderstand. But I would think they would have included the century to signify that she lived 100 years. Or have some mention of 100 years. But maybe. 12/30/1843--1/2/1944


Another thought because the dates are month/day, would signify its American, right? Dont they mark day/month in Europe?
 

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G.I.B.

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IMO, since it's confirmed silver, that rules out a lot of theories. I still don't get the Tie mark, doesn't make sense to me, but I'm learning a lot.

Next hummmm... is why on the beach? If it's a crematory tag, it wouldn't be silver. If it was silver, and on the Urn, the parents should/would have kept it. Why would you throw that into the sea?

If it's a memory tag, I can get it being silver, but the numbers on the back cloud the issue.

If it's for a grave site, why would it be at the beach, unless Mom was wearing it as a necklace or piece of jewelry.

Just thinking out loud here-

... and doing a lot of head scratching.
 

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Doubter in MD

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Blue Letter Bible was launched about 20 years ago but apparently they are citing Strong's Concordance which was first published in 1890.

From Wikipedia: "Each original-language word is given an entry number in the dictionary of those original language words listed in the back of the concordance. These have become known as the "Strong's numbers". The main concordance lists each word that appears in the KJV Bible in alphabetical order with each verse in which it appears listed in order of its appearance in the Bible, with a snippet of the surrounding text (including the word in italics). Appearing to the right of scripture reference is the Strong's number. This allows the user of the concordance to look up the meaning of the original language word in the associated dictionary in the back, thereby showing how the original language word was translated into the English word in the KJV Bible."

Here is a link to the Wiki page...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong%27s_Concordance
 

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Crispin

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I think the biggest elephant in the room is why is one side in script and the other side hand chiseled? Or perhaps the back is not hand chiseled but since the font change the striking pattern changed. IMO...both sides must have been done at the same time...
 

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