Signal tree pics...
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GroundS.KeepeR
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Re: Signal tree pics...
Thanks Smee! good info you have here
..real or not ill keep finding the good stuff ...
Thanks Smee! good info you have here
..real or not ill keep finding the good stuff ...
joshuaream
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Re: Signal tree pics...
Smee,
I'm not trying to make fun of you or the idea, but yes let's take a good look at that the Keziah tree.
I don't doubt that it could be a signal tree. But first let’s look at the Buffalo part of the tree. The tree is estimated to be 800 plus years old and it's about as far from the historical range of the bison as possible. I doubt the Natives on the coast of North Carolina ever saw a bison, but let's assume that they knew about them from their Mississippian era trade networks inside the historical range of the bison.. The Mississippian groups rarely depict bison in their extensive collection of art, and apparently the bison hid from them, wasn't spiritually important to them, or more likely was already extinct in that area from climate change or archaic hunting pressure. The Woodland and Mississippian groups made thousands of effigy pipes that depict 70 or 80 different animals from toads, squirrels, parrots, fish, 20 types of birds, etc. and to my knowledge there has never been an authentic buffalo effigy pipe from that period.
Second, let’s assume they did tweak and bend the tree 800 plus years ago. It was obviously smaller then, and has obviously grown to immense size over the years. How did they make a skinny sapling look like a robust bison? And how does it still look like a bison after 800 years? That’s a pretty amazing trick for a tree that has probably better than tripled in size since the last Native in that area was long gone. (Maybe the Gullah and other escaped slaves, or white groups that occupied the lowlands later tended the tree, although they had never any connection to bison.)
Third, that white horn looks to be a section of the tree that has died (missing the bark.) I assume that over 800 years dead wood would rot like it does everywhere else. Maybe it is just a sign of an 800 year old tree with fungus issues (or other signs of old age) and not the work of a group from at least 500 years before…
I don't see a turtle, but my guess is you aren't going to agree with my explanation.
Joshua
Smee said:Keziah tree . . . how do you explain the Buffalo, including white horn? How about the turtle?
Smee,
I'm not trying to make fun of you or the idea, but yes let's take a good look at that the Keziah tree.
I don't doubt that it could be a signal tree. But first let’s look at the Buffalo part of the tree. The tree is estimated to be 800 plus years old and it's about as far from the historical range of the bison as possible. I doubt the Natives on the coast of North Carolina ever saw a bison, but let's assume that they knew about them from their Mississippian era trade networks inside the historical range of the bison.. The Mississippian groups rarely depict bison in their extensive collection of art, and apparently the bison hid from them, wasn't spiritually important to them, or more likely was already extinct in that area from climate change or archaic hunting pressure. The Woodland and Mississippian groups made thousands of effigy pipes that depict 70 or 80 different animals from toads, squirrels, parrots, fish, 20 types of birds, etc. and to my knowledge there has never been an authentic buffalo effigy pipe from that period.
Second, let’s assume they did tweak and bend the tree 800 plus years ago. It was obviously smaller then, and has obviously grown to immense size over the years. How did they make a skinny sapling look like a robust bison? And how does it still look like a bison after 800 years? That’s a pretty amazing trick for a tree that has probably better than tripled in size since the last Native in that area was long gone. (Maybe the Gullah and other escaped slaves, or white groups that occupied the lowlands later tended the tree, although they had never any connection to bison.)
Third, that white horn looks to be a section of the tree that has died (missing the bark.) I assume that over 800 years dead wood would rot like it does everywhere else. Maybe it is just a sign of an 800 year old tree with fungus issues (or other signs of old age) and not the work of a group from at least 500 years before…
I don't see a turtle, but my guess is you aren't going to agree with my explanation.
Joshua
S
Smee
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Re: Signal tree pics...
American bison (buffalo) ranged from the Appalachians to the plains.
Now, this is just where their existance has been proven --- i.e. skeletal remains found.
The Natchez trace was originally a Buffalo trail.
Similarly, fossilized elephant remains have been found in the Mississippi River between Arkansas and Mississippi. The Museum of Natural Sciences in Monticello, Arkansas (University of Arkansas at Monticello) has some of those remains in their collection. They weren't found until someone dredged the right part of the Mississippi River. Perhaps, someone needs to excavate the right part of the Carolinas to find proof of their existance there?
Native Americans (First Nations) did not keep written records before the whites arrived, so the only thing that is left is stories and archaeological evidence. Just because no one has found it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means we have no way at this time of knowing if they were in this area, and as rational people, we will assume that they weren't until we learn otherwise.
The Keziah tree marked something. A good fishing location (very near the shore)? A good hunting area? A good campground? A place with dangerous beasts that might trample you? We don't know. We do, however, know that it was man made.
American bison (buffalo) ranged from the Appalachians to the plains.
Now, this is just where their existance has been proven --- i.e. skeletal remains found.
The Natchez trace was originally a Buffalo trail.
Similarly, fossilized elephant remains have been found in the Mississippi River between Arkansas and Mississippi. The Museum of Natural Sciences in Monticello, Arkansas (University of Arkansas at Monticello) has some of those remains in their collection. They weren't found until someone dredged the right part of the Mississippi River. Perhaps, someone needs to excavate the right part of the Carolinas to find proof of their existance there?
Native Americans (First Nations) did not keep written records before the whites arrived, so the only thing that is left is stories and archaeological evidence. Just because no one has found it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means we have no way at this time of knowing if they were in this area, and as rational people, we will assume that they weren't until we learn otherwise.
The Keziah tree marked something. A good fishing location (very near the shore)? A good hunting area? A good campground? A place with dangerous beasts that might trample you? We don't know. We do, however, know that it was man made.
joshuaream
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Re: Signal tree pics...
Smee,
I'm not disagreeing that the tree could have been made by man, just with the whole interpretation that they are bears, buffalos, human faces, etc... Sometimes a bent tree is just a bent tree, and perhaps on a coast a hurricane did it or perhaps a tornado bent some over the years as well.
Again, you are correct that the map just means that Bison haven't been found there, but considering that no bison remains have been identified with the amount of development in the area moving dirt for hundreds of years, the richness in fossils and fossil collectors in the area, and in the art left by Native groups who used every other significant animal in their art, probably can be taken as good proof that there weren't any bison hanging around the area (at least when the natives were making these things.)
For what it's worth, I marked the approximate location of the tree on the map.
Joshua
Smee,
I'm not disagreeing that the tree could have been made by man, just with the whole interpretation that they are bears, buffalos, human faces, etc... Sometimes a bent tree is just a bent tree, and perhaps on a coast a hurricane did it or perhaps a tornado bent some over the years as well.
Again, you are correct that the map just means that Bison haven't been found there, but considering that no bison remains have been identified with the amount of development in the area moving dirt for hundreds of years, the richness in fossils and fossil collectors in the area, and in the art left by Native groups who used every other significant animal in their art, probably can be taken as good proof that there weren't any bison hanging around the area (at least when the natives were making these things.)
For what it's worth, I marked the approximate location of the tree on the map.
Joshua
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Ohio_Doug
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Re: Signal tree pics...
I see the elephant man in the last pic. Does that mean anything? Not makin fun, I'm just sayin
I see the elephant man in the last pic. Does that mean anything? Not makin fun, I'm just sayin
S
Smee
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Re: Signal tree pics...
Oh yeah, I know where the tree is. Actually have the coordinates in my GPS, so it isn't a surprise.
The reason for the map is most people don't believe the buffalo ever got east of the Mississippi river.
To believe that those First Nations peoples never saw a buffalo though, would be to assume that they never went anywhere outside of the immediate area where they lived.
The Poverty Point mound complex in Louisiana helps to understand that early man on this continent was actually quite mobile. The mounds were built about the time Moses was found in the bulrushes in Egypt. At that site they have found stones not native to Louisiana, along with copper beads and other items from the Great Lakes region of the United States. Since this complex is known to have been used for trade --- along with the quantity of items found --- archaeologists believe that people traveled that distance for trading at the site. Other items native to locations such as Florida have been located there, as well as some from the southwest (certain stones for arrowheads, etc.).
I don't know for sure because I wasn't there, just as I wasn't there for the crusades or other events in history. Yet I do believe that the coins which bear the likeness of Julius Caesar or other roman emperors are not the result of a random crushing of metals by the earth which they are found under. The same with ancient brooches, rings, etc. Things like that are not natural . . . and they bear the marks of being manipulated by men.
No one has to believe. Hell, some folks still believe the Earth is flat while others believe the moon landings took place in a movie studio. Hey, whatever floats your boat.
Oh yeah, I know where the tree is. Actually have the coordinates in my GPS, so it isn't a surprise.
The reason for the map is most people don't believe the buffalo ever got east of the Mississippi river.
To believe that those First Nations peoples never saw a buffalo though, would be to assume that they never went anywhere outside of the immediate area where they lived.
The Poverty Point mound complex in Louisiana helps to understand that early man on this continent was actually quite mobile. The mounds were built about the time Moses was found in the bulrushes in Egypt. At that site they have found stones not native to Louisiana, along with copper beads and other items from the Great Lakes region of the United States. Since this complex is known to have been used for trade --- along with the quantity of items found --- archaeologists believe that people traveled that distance for trading at the site. Other items native to locations such as Florida have been located there, as well as some from the southwest (certain stones for arrowheads, etc.).
I don't know for sure because I wasn't there, just as I wasn't there for the crusades or other events in history. Yet I do believe that the coins which bear the likeness of Julius Caesar or other roman emperors are not the result of a random crushing of metals by the earth which they are found under. The same with ancient brooches, rings, etc. Things like that are not natural . . . and they bear the marks of being manipulated by men.
No one has to believe. Hell, some folks still believe the Earth is flat while others believe the moon landings took place in a movie studio. Hey, whatever floats your boat.
P
pickaway
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Re: Signal tree pics...
I see bent trees all the time in the woods, natural growth imo...
I see bent trees all the time in the woods, natural growth imo...
joshuaream
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Re: Signal tree pics...
Clearly coins with pictures of specific people and writing are the same as lumpy logs...
Smee said:
Clearly coins with pictures of specific people and writing are the same as lumpy logs...
S
Smee
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Re: Signal tree pics...
When I can show the place where the rawhide was tied to the tree to hold it down, and show the markings from a forked stick used to place the bend in the correct place, it is called random.
Then why can't the coins with human tool/die marks be ascribed to coincidence?
Your logic is faulty.
. . . and yes, there are all kinds of bent trees in the wood. You would need to know what to look for, otherwise one might assume that all bent trees gave evidence of Indian activity --- which would be as foolish as saying that trees which have the markings to show that they have been shaped by human intervention are simply random acts of nature.
There is a reason for the gray matter between our ears.
joshuaream said:
When I can show the place where the rawhide was tied to the tree to hold it down, and show the markings from a forked stick used to place the bend in the correct place, it is called random.
Then why can't the coins with human tool/die marks be ascribed to coincidence?
Your logic is faulty.
. . . and yes, there are all kinds of bent trees in the wood. You would need to know what to look for, otherwise one might assume that all bent trees gave evidence of Indian activity --- which would be as foolish as saying that trees which have the markings to show that they have been shaped by human intervention are simply random acts of nature.
There is a reason for the gray matter between our ears.
SnakemanBill
Sr. Member
Re: Signal tree pics...
and by the way its not Popular its Poplar.
and its not Canadian Goose its Canada Goose.
and by the way its not Popular its Poplar.
and its not Canadian Goose its Canada Goose.
Neanderthal
Bronze Member
Re: Signal tree pics...
It's completely clear that they were formed by aliens visiting our planet. I don't see a turtle or bison effigy, it's obvious to me that they are depictions of a quad-phase photon reactor and a Ciberian III lunar monkey. If you look closely, you can see where the marks on the trees where they tethered their spaceships.
Prove me wrong.
It's completely clear that they were formed by aliens visiting our planet. I don't see a turtle or bison effigy, it's obvious to me that they are depictions of a quad-phase photon reactor and a Ciberian III lunar monkey. If you look closely, you can see where the marks on the trees where they tethered their spaceships.
Prove me wrong.
S
Smee
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Re: Signal tree pics...
You aren't supposed to know. Damn those aluminum beanies!
Neanderthal said:It's completely clear that they were formed by aliens visiting our planet. I don't see a turtle or bison effigy, it's obvious to me that they are depictions of a quad-phase photon reactor and a Ciberian III lunar monkey. If you look closely, you can see where the marks on the trees where they tethered their spaceships.
You aren't supposed to know. Damn those aluminum beanies!
joshuaream
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Re: Signal tree pics...
Again, I don’t doubt that Signal Trees exist or existed in some capacity, there is plenty of historical evidence for them… I just realize that most of the things you have shown are probably relatively recent knots and burls growing naturally on old trees. I'm sure it's exciting and tiring to be the only one to recognize such historical artifacts.
You are correct, when you can actually show that amount of evidence I will be impressed. What I’ve seen are a bunch of trees. How can you tell that the markings were made from a forked stick and Rawhide?Smee said:
Because thousands and thousands of coins made with a specific picture, and specific writing, made from refined metal , all having a similar weight are obviously a man-made good. Kind of like twinkies, TV’s, books, etc. You can stand outside waiting for geology to spit you a new Toyota, but it isn’t going to happen. But I’m sure you could walk around a woods planted 100 years ago and find plenty of natural examples of why trees get bent...Smee said:
Since when is it logical to look at a bent tree and assume that it must be the sacred “Turtle riding a buffalo with white horns on the beaches of North Carolina” tree. Where’s the Teepee, Medicine Wheel, peace pipe and feather head dress to go with that fantasy?Smee said:
Yes, apparently it’s up there to help our imaginations…Smee said:
Again, I don’t doubt that Signal Trees exist or existed in some capacity, there is plenty of historical evidence for them… I just realize that most of the things you have shown are probably relatively recent knots and burls growing naturally on old trees. I'm sure it's exciting and tiring to be the only one to recognize such historical artifacts.
S
Smee
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Re: Signal tree pics...
Showed it. You can't see it, that's fine. It is a free country, for now.
For anyone genuinely interested, here are some of the marks to look for:
In the lighter area, you will see that this tree was created by tying it down. Other trees may have been made at a different time by a different nation, and thus a different method. The most common method was to use a long forked stick (called a thong) and drive it over the top just before the first branch to hold the tree in its shape. In either method, the restraint eventually rotted away with age.
This tree was created using two thongs with the fork facing upward to form the bend in the trunk. In the lighter area there are clear indentations at the base of the tree as well as where the branches of the thong pressed against the side of the tree before they rotted away.
To some extent, joshuaream, you are correct. Most of the trees one sees in the woods or beside the road which are bent in similar shapes are NOT in any way related to signal trees. That is why I have posted to begin with. While you have a right to your doubts, I do have a bit more experience and knowledge of these trees as it has become important to me to know one when I see it. Why? Respect for the ones who came before.
Some marked sacred areas such as burial areas. Some mark historic boundaries between nations. As a member of the United Houmas Nation, I am living in lands not native to my people. Out of respect, I want to know the areas that should not be disturbed because of their meaning to past peoples. Again, respect.
joshuaream said:
Showed it. You can't see it, that's fine. It is a free country, for now.
For anyone genuinely interested, here are some of the marks to look for:
In the lighter area, you will see that this tree was created by tying it down. Other trees may have been made at a different time by a different nation, and thus a different method. The most common method was to use a long forked stick (called a thong) and drive it over the top just before the first branch to hold the tree in its shape. In either method, the restraint eventually rotted away with age.
This tree was created using two thongs with the fork facing upward to form the bend in the trunk. In the lighter area there are clear indentations at the base of the tree as well as where the branches of the thong pressed against the side of the tree before they rotted away.
To some extent, joshuaream, you are correct. Most of the trees one sees in the woods or beside the road which are bent in similar shapes are NOT in any way related to signal trees. That is why I have posted to begin with. While you have a right to your doubts, I do have a bit more experience and knowledge of these trees as it has become important to me to know one when I see it. Why? Respect for the ones who came before.
Some marked sacred areas such as burial areas. Some mark historic boundaries between nations. As a member of the United Houmas Nation, I am living in lands not native to my people. Out of respect, I want to know the areas that should not be disturbed because of their meaning to past peoples. Again, respect.
joshuaream
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Re: Signal tree pics...
That's all you had to say.
Actually, I have learned quite a bit from your posts, thanks!
Joshua
Smee said:
That's all you had to say.
Actually, I have learned quite a bit from your posts, thanks!
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Re: Signal tree pics...
ahh nay here it is Tulip Popular. The tree takes over and seeds faster than any other and can grow 3 feet a yearu.They predict as we log our hardwoods the Tulip Popular will be the prominent timber tree as we loose our mast producing species. But as webster says you are correct
SnakemanBill said:
ahh nay here it is Tulip Popular. The tree takes over and seeds faster than any other and can grow 3 feet a yearu.They predict as we log our hardwoods the Tulip Popular will be the prominent timber tree as we loose our mast producing species. But as webster says you are correct
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