So what happened at the 1:30 Toad meetin

Hi All just got home from the early meeting. First off a big giant thank you to Fullpan for the posters, they were a big hit with the audience and I sensed somewhat of an embarrassment to the opposition. I would like to say there was something new and positive from the Forest Service but there wasn't, we got what I expected and a little more. Lip service, polite nods, compliant smiles. Not to mention a rude mediator that did his best to validate the negative view we have of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife, U.S.F.S., and CDF&W. That being said I was very refreshed. When we first got there I was sizing up and categorizing the crowd. My first thoughts were we were split down the middle. Five minutes into the speeches and comment period I realized I couldn't have been more wrong. We had an overwhelming majority. Out of the 21 folks that spoke only one was for the Critical Habitat Designation. Who by the way was representing the Center For Biological Diversity, after his speech one person sheepishly clapped, the rest of the room held complete silence. Speeches and comments were given by Board of Supervisors, Ranchers, Hunting and Fishing guides, concerned citizens, and of course the largest group in attendance - Miners. The most impressive aspect of the hearing was the level of awareness and knowledge our side had. Everyone knew their talking points and all points were covered. All to often passion infused rants rule these types of meetings, not so in this case. Did we win or lose? Our unity, knowledge, and overwhelming presence would certainly indicate it to any one with a pinch of common sense. However the attitudes and look of inconvienence on the oppositions face told the reality of what was really happening.
 

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Fowledup - thanks for the report. We may not have won this battle, but important thing is, we are starting to come together as a powerful group. No telling
where we will be in six months. Oakview, the posters fowledup is referring to were originally posted here on tnet by either you or Hefty1 - thank you.
 

So Fowled... What you're saying is that the meeting was only "lip service" on the part of the forest service because they've already made up their minds and no matter what was said they wouldn't be changing their stand? That don't come as any surprise to me at all. All of these issues, be they frogs and toads, dredging, motorized mining etc are already stacked against us and it wouldn't matter if we showed them 100% pure science that proved them wrong. They'd still do what ever meets THEIR agenda.

I think it's time we filed suite against the entire forest service for failure to serve the public interest. Closing vast sections of PUBLIC lands so the people that own them (AKA John Q Public) can't use them goes against what the original intent of setting these areas up in the first place. It's high time that these "public service groups" like the center for biological diversity are charged with theft of public funds and forced to pay back every dime they've won in these law suites with interest.
 

It is lip service, because the USFWS has already made a agreement with CBD under sue and settle. A practice determined by the ninth circuit court as illegal, the that the US Congress is investigating. We don't need to sue, we need to put some beaurcrats in JAIL. They took a oath to defend the constiution and uphold the laws of the land. These tin horn carpet baggers need to go DOWN....


goldenIrishman said:
So Fowled... What you're saying is that the meeting was only "lip service" on the part of the forest service because they've already made up their minds and no matter what was said they wouldn't be changing their stand? That don't come as any surprise to me at all. All of these issues, be they frogs and toads, dredging, motorized mining etc are already stacked against us and it wouldn't matter if we showed them 100% pure science that proved them wrong. They'd still do what ever meets THEIR agenda.

I think it's time we filed suite against the entire forest service for failure to serve the public interest. Closing vast sections of PUBLIC lands so the people that own them (AKA John Q Public) can't use them goes against what the original intent of setting these areas up in the first place. It's high time that these "public service groups" like the center for biological diversity are charged with theft of public funds and forced to pay back every dime they've won in these law suites with interest.
Click to expand...
 

Yeah it seemed as though it was lip service. It wasn't questions followed by answers or any sort of debate, it was a formality. But....The good news is now we know how the game is played. We are educating ourselves, and we are coming together. Fullpan you are right, the tide is changing.
 

Hoser John said:
YADAYADAYADA- same ol'dog and pony show at the circus. Seen it 1,000s a times blah blah blah and fu-John:BangHead:
Click to expand...

Yes it was John, but here's what you haven't seen (or at least I haven't)- an audience that was informed and educated,100% against the opposition, the opposition didn't show. The one guy who spoke for it, worked for the opposition so I don't count him as audience. That gives me hope regardless of how the rest of the dog and pony show was orchestrated.
 

I applaud all of your efforts. I don't live in your once great state but I know it is just a matter of time before the virus spreads further. One point, maybe the opposition didn't show because they know it is just a formality. The courts seem to be the only source of relief in Ca considering the state govt.
 

e-mail i received saying pretty much what fowledup had said
link to frogs and toads spend a little time opposing this folks
Regulations.gov



Begin forwarded message:

From: Wendy B

Date: January 31, 2014 9:40:26 AM PST

To: "Kirk MacKenzie" <[email protected]>
Subject: FW: USFWS Hearing


Hello Everyone,

Here is a report on the Hearing in Sacramento . Bob Magee is the Vice President on Public Lands for the Backcountry Horsemen of California. I have been working closely with him for a number of years.

Wendy

​
From: Bob M
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014
To: Wendy B
Subject: USFWS Hearing


Wendy,


I attended the hearing on the Frogs and Toads listing in Sacramento yesterday and did speak. The room had 80-100 attendees and about 25 people spoke. Of the 25 speakers only two spoke in favor of the listing, the room was overwhelmingly filled with people who were opposed to the listing. After the representative for the Center for Biological Diversity spoke only one person clapped and she did so by mistake as her friends told here she was clapping for the enemy.



The speakers were allowed only two minutes and many ran over. The person running the meeting kept changing the rules for speaking and never in favor of someone speaking against the listing.



Bob







–––––––––––––––––––––––



 

Dredgeman spoke to Craig Lindsay and he said there was only about people there.
 

Sounds like our meeting here only we had a few more frog huggers that absolutly made fools of them selves.There was a guy that spoke here who was just a rancher,who made fools of the rest (USFW,Forest Circus,etc)wish I could recall that guys name...he was awesome!!!Very knowledgeable,and well spoken!!
 

Was that the Sonora meeting, their was a fisherman from up your way that made them look like bigger fools than they are
 

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