Solved? more input needed on old no-name pistol

[dozer dan]

here are the pictures of my pistol. the only pictures i could find to match it is the griswold and gunnison. my pistol is .36 cal. brass frame with a round barrel. there is no name on it. the ser. # is in the 17,000s and stamped two times on the brass, one time on the cylinder, and one time under the barrel assembly. all ser. #s match. the ser #s are erratic as they are not aligned well. the rod is 2 piece construction, in the pictures you can see this. there also appeares to be a blood etched finger print on the underside of the barrel. one person i asked to examin it said he thought he saw a tiny stamping on the cylinder of a crescent moon with a star in it. i however do not see this.
i am grateful for your interest and any info you could provide. sorry about the pic's. im still catchin on. Dan

 

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[trikikiwi]

Re: old no-name pistol

Nice revolver. I agree with rmptr, it feels real.
BigCy you had the 'design' of the piece picked incredibly quickly, as usual.
As usual - I'm enjoying my further education from this thread

Being --deleted-- about defarbing, I found this helpful blog
http://www.westcoastcampaigner.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-443.html

and now having that knowledge, I reckon I have to agree with BigCy about disguising the provenance.

Mike

 

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[ivan salis]

Re: old no-name pistol

REMOVING "MODERN" GUN ID MARKING ARE ILLEGAL --LIKE FILING DOWN SERIAL NUMBERS IS.-- modern as in replica guns *

 

[dcinffxva]

Re: old no-name pistol

REMOVING "MODERN" GUN ID MARKING ARE ILLEGAL --LIKE FILING DOWN SERIAL NUMBERS IS.

Antique firearms, made prior to 1898, and their copies using flintlock or percussion firing systems are not subject to the GCA of 1968. What is the source for your claim ?


(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html

 

[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

Nice cap n ball revolver Dan!

I'm sure it's a copy, after the Colt, but it's the real deal...
It just doesn't have the 'feel' of a modern day reproduction.

If you want I'll take copies of the pics over to some shooters and see what they say...

Best
rmptr

at this point any input would help. the town i live in is pretty small
(medford or.) and none of the self proclaimed gun experts can agree on this.
but the naysayers often try to buy it.
and might i reiterate, i dont thing the stampings could have been ground
off without leaving divots or sunken areas in the barrel.

also 1 important detail, if you hold it in you hand like you were going to fire it,
then point it skyward, the last 3/4 inch of the barrel is slightly beveled toward
the muzzle like it has seen years of use and movement in a holster.

 

[dcinffxva]

Re: old no-name pistol

Nice cap n ball revolver Dan!

I'm sure it's a copy, after the Colt, but it's the real deal...
It just doesn't have the 'feel' of a modern day reproduction.

If you want I'll take copies of the pics over to some shooters and see what they say...

Best
rmptr

at this point any input would help. the town i live in is pretty small
(medford or.) and none of the self proclaimed gun experts can agree on this.
but the naysayers often try to buy it.
and might i reiterate, i dont thing the stampings could have been ground
off without leaving divots or sunken areas in the barrel.

also 1 important detail, if you hold it in you hand like you were going to fire it,
then point it skyward, the last 3/4 inch of the barrel is slightly beveled toward
the muzzle like it has seen years of use and movement in a holster.

Dozer,

I hope that you picked up a $25,000 revolver for $50.00. That would be an awesome deal.
It's certainly not impossible that you got a true lottery win there. I'd still recommend you get it to a qualified expert for an appraisal if you feel that it is the 'real deal". I can make guesses by the photos, but all they are when it comes down to it is a guess.

If what you think you have is a true Confederate revolver, then get it appraised, by a professional. It will be well worth it.

Only a "hands on" inspection will tell.

Don't go to your average Joe gunshop. Most of them are clueless when it comes to antique arms. A well aged, and defarbed gun will fool most of the semi-pros. It won't fool a true expert. I've been collecting antique US Military arms for a fair number of years now, and personally, I would not buy that revolver based on what i've seen. It looks like a modern (less than 110 years) copy to me.

Take some better pics, and post them on some antique gun collector forums, such as gunbroker's, ask the experts forum, auctionarms, antiqueguns etc. make sure you get closeups of every marking on it, as well as detailed pics of the hammer, cylinder, front sight post, both sides etc. Here are a few examples of what I mean on one of my early pistols.

If what you have is what you think you have, then this will be time well spent.

I'm not looking to buy your gun, like some of those you've talked with. If it's a copy, i don't want it, and if it's an original, I can't afford it

DC

 

[rmptr]

Re: old no-name pistol

Nice flintlock, DC.

Can you advise a replica of that?

Would be fun!
rmptr

 

[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

one or two more?

 

[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

no grind marks. Im hoping you guys (and girls ) wont let this post die without finding answers.
this has been eatin at me for a long time. any input is good input.

 

[sniffer]

Re: old no-name pistol

sent you a PM

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

also 1 important detail, if you hold it in you hand like you were going to fire it,
then point it skyward, the last 3/4 inch of the barrel is slightly beveled toward
the muzzle like it has seen years of use and movement in a holster.

Are you saying the barrel is bent?

Its a beautiful pistol for sure but I think my $89 Italian replica is also beautiful. A difference I noticed is that mine is blued and yours isnt. Did you remove a screw to see if its metric?

 

[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

also 1 important detail, if you hold it in you hand like you were going to fire it,
then point it skyward, the last 3/4 inch of the barrel is slightly beveled toward
the muzzle like it has seen years of use and movement in a holster.

Are you saying the barrel is bent?

Its a beautiful pistol for sure but I think my $89 Italian replica is also beautiful. A difference I noticed is that mine is blued and yours isn't. Did you remove a screw to see if its metric?

not bent. imagine the last 1 inch of the barrel sliding in and out and rubbing the inside of the holster over a long period of time.
its just a tiny little bit beveled to a point right at the muzzle.
kind of a mild taper.
i don't think that's something a person would think to do if they were trying to artificially age a pistol.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

I love my Colt replica. It has a nice feel to it. Mine is .44 cal. and I use it hog hunting. I dont like to try and reload my muzzleloading rifle with a large wounded boar so I carry a pistol capped on 5 chambers for close range head shots to finish off the animal if necessary. It doesnt have much punch but its a nice feeling having 5 or 6 more shots ready to go and I imagine the soldiers that used these weapons felt the same.

 

[dcinffxva]

Re: old no-name pistol

Nice flintlock, DC.

Can you advise a replica of that?

Would be fun!
rmptr

I don't know of anyone who makes a reproduction Model 1836. Pedersoli makes a Harpers Ferry 1805/1807. Here is one on Gunbroker that looks decent for the price.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124778884

 

[l.cutler]

Re: old no-name pistol

Checking the screws to see if they are metric as stated would be agood start. Good clear close up photos as also stated of both sides of the frame too. I don't know of any revolvers built in high numbers, as indicated by the serial number, that would have a brass frame and no maker markings. It doesn't seem to add up. Posting on one of the serious arms collector sites would praobly clear it up quickly. Let us know if you learn something elsewhere. Good luck!

 

[Monty]

Re: old no-name pistol

I for one don't have anything else I can tell you. Take the advice given and check the screws and also submit it to an expert, not just some flunky at a local gun shop. You were given several names to check with. Even if it doesn't prove to be authentic, it will make a nice wall hanger and display piece, or conversation piece if you are so inclined. Certainly worth much more than what you gave for it. Monty

 

[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

i have sent numerous pictures to auction houses, civil war memorabilia collectors, museums,
west point museum, etc,etc,etc. all had mixed reviews. they also refuted the metric thread theory
because some of the souths arsenal came from overseas (england, australia and more)

 

[l.cutler]

Re: old no-name pistol

France, Netherlands and Belgium were the only major countries to have adopted the metric system prior to the Civil War. Any firearms produced in Europe would have to be proofmarked as well. So the metric threads would definitely be a telling factor and make it a modern replica. If it has standard threads an examination by an expert is in order. Good luck!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

France, Netherlands and Belgium were the only major countries to have adopted the metric system prior to the Civil War. Any firearms produced in Europe would have to be proofmarked as well. So the metric threads would definitely be a telling factor and make it a modern replica. If it has standard threads an examination by an expert is in order. Good luck!

I think cutler is correct and he knows CW era guns. Take a bolt out, take it to Home Depot or a hardware store and match the thread. Let us know.

It will either Fine, Coarse or Metric.

 

[TimC]

Re: old no-name pistol

I read most of the thread and I do not recall anyone suggesting a minumum of ungloved handling. The more it's worth the less you should handle it. Good luck.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

I read most of the thread and I do not recall anyone suggesting a minumum of ungloved handling. The more it's worth the less you should handle it. Good luck.

The moisture from your hands is corrosive true but if you wipe it down with oil after handling should be no problem.