Solved? more input needed on old no-name pistol

[dozer dan]

here are the pictures of my pistol. the only pictures i could find to match it is the griswold and gunnison. my pistol is .36 cal. brass frame with a round barrel. there is no name on it. the ser. # is in the 17,000s and stamped two times on the brass, one time on the cylinder, and one time under the barrel assembly. all ser. #s match. the ser #s are erratic as they are not aligned well. the rod is 2 piece construction, in the pictures you can see this. there also appeares to be a blood etched finger print on the underside of the barrel. one person i asked to examin it said he thought he saw a tiny stamping on the cylinder of a crescent moon with a star in it. i however do not see this.
i am grateful for your interest and any info you could provide. sorry about the pic's. im still catchin on. Dan

 

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

well, i took a screw out of it yesterday and went to Lowe's. they have a reference display with various nuts, bolts, metric, standard, threads and so on. and believe it or not it screwed into both metric and standard nuts like it was made for it.


and this is what i have been dealing with for the last 3 years.


dead ends and undecided.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

well, i took a screw out of it yesterday and went to Lowe's. they have a reference display with various nuts, bolts, metric, standard, threads and so on. and believe it or not it screwed into both metric and standard nuts like it was made for it.


and this is what i have been dealing with for the last 3 years.


dead ends and undecided.

The threads may have been stripped. You did something wrong. Put your screw directly next to another screw from Loews interlocking the threads. You should be able to tell by using this method. The same thread will interlock with another of the same.. Maybe it is hard to tell in the smaller sizes. But I always put the screws side by side instead of using the screw/nut method. Another way would be to screw into a thread gauge until you find the best fit.

Im not sure what you mean by standard but it will either be fine, coarse or metric.

 

[72cheyenne]

Re: old no-name pistol

Ok, I should have replied a while ago when this got into the bolt thread discussion, but here goes from someone who sells nuts and bolts all day.


This pic shows from left to right: 6/32 standard thread, 8/32 standard, 10/24 standard, 10/32 standard, 3mm metric, 4mm metric, 5mm metric, and a 5mm metric nut.


This pic shows the 5mm metric nut on the 5mm metric bolt.


This pic shows the 5mm metric nut on the 10/32 standard bolt.


This pic shows the 5mm metric bolt and the 10/32 standard bolt with the thread pitch interlocked.

This is the only place that I could find between the standard and metric threads that this happens. I know that the 10/32 standard thread is and uncommon thread nowdays, but was a common thread years back. Don't know if this proves anything, but if he has the 10/32 or 5mm thread on the gun I would say its a dead end.

 

[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

IT SEEMS EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS PISTOL IS A DEAD END. I MAY JUST HAVE A REALY INTERESTING DOORSTOP OR PAPERWEIGHT. I GET DISCOURAGED EVERY TIME I OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS, THROW IT BACK IN THE CLOSET AND FORGET ABOUT IT FOR A WHILE. THEN WHEN I CALM DOWN (ABOUT 6 MONTHS LATER) I GO BRAIN DEAD AND GET IT BACK OUT AND START IT ALL OVER AGAIN. I COULD SAVE A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT BY JUST GOING OUT IN THE BACK YARD AND BANGING MY HEAD AGAINST A TREE UNTILL THE URGE TO GET THE PISTOL BACK OUT GOES AWAY. OR JUST SELL THE DARN THING AND BE DONE WITH IT.

 

[72cheyenne]

Re: old no-name pistol

IT SEEMS EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS PISTOL IS A DEAD END. I MAY JUST HAVE A REALY INTERESTING DOORSTOP OR PAPERWEIGHT. I GET DISCOURAGED EVERY TIME I OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS, THROW IT BACK IN THE CLOSET AND FORGET ABOUT IT FOR A WHILE. THEN WHEN I CALM DOWN (ABOUT 6 MONTHS LATER) I GO BRAIN DEAD AND GET IT BACK OUT AND START IT ALL OVER AGAIN. I COULD SAVE A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT BY JUST GOING OUT IN THE BACK YARD AND BANGING MY HEAD AGAINST A TREE UNTILL THE URGE TO GET THE PISTOL BACK OUT GOES AWAY. OR JUST SELL THE DARN THING AND BE DONE WITH IT.

Did you happen to note the size of bolts you was checking the other day at Lowes? It sucks that the 10/32 and 5mm share the same pitch. I personally think its a nice old gun that I don't think is a repro, but I don't know squat about guns. Just tryin to help a bit.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

IT SEEMS EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS PISTOL IS A DEAD END. I MAY JUST HAVE A REALY INTERESTING DOORSTOP OR PAPERWEIGHT. I GET DISCOURAGED EVERY TIME I OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS, THROW IT BACK IN THE CLOSET AND FORGET ABOUT IT FOR A WHILE. THEN WHEN I CALM DOWN (ABOUT 6 MONTHS LATER) I GO BRAIN DEAD AND GET IT BACK OUT AND START IT ALL OVER AGAIN. I COULD SAVE A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT BY JUST GOING OUT IN THE BACK YARD AND BANGING MY HEAD AGAINST A TREE UNTILL THE URGE TO GET THE PISTOL BACK OUT GOES AWAY. OR JUST SELL THE DARN THING AND BE DONE WITH IT.

No please dont give up or get frustrated. Calm down and take Cheyennes advice. If you have tested the 10/32 then look for another bolt to test.. also use the side by side method pictured.

Cheyene when you say "standard" I presume you are referring to both "Coarse" and "Fine" threads. A gun bolt probably has "Fine" or "Metric" threads. Three basic types of threads- commonly called Coarse, Fine & Metric. There may also be extrafine.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

I know this is confusing but I think the second number is threads per inch. It doesnt matter much because I think if dozer dan takes out 2 different bolts from this gun he should be able to make a positive ID as to whether they are an American standard thread or foreign metric. I think I learned something about bolts today lol.

 

[72cheyenne]

Re: old no-name pistol

IT SEEMS EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS PISTOL IS A DEAD END. I MAY JUST HAVE A REALY INTERESTING DOORSTOP OR PAPERWEIGHT. I GET DISCOURAGED EVERY TIME I OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS, THROW IT BACK IN THE CLOSET AND FORGET ABOUT IT FOR A WHILE. THEN WHEN I CALM DOWN (ABOUT 6 MONTHS LATER) I GO BRAIN DEAD AND GET IT BACK OUT AND START IT ALL OVER AGAIN. I COULD SAVE A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT BY JUST GOING OUT IN THE BACK YARD AND BANGING MY HEAD AGAINST A TREE UNTILL THE URGE TO GET THE PISTOL BACK OUT GOES AWAY. OR JUST SELL THE DARN THING AND BE DONE WITH IT.

No please dont give up or get frustrated. Calm down and take Cheyennes advice. If you have tested the 10/32 then look for another bolt to test.. also use the side by side method pictured.


Cheyene when you say "standard" I presume you are referring to both "Coarse" and "Fine" threads. A gun bolt probably has "Fine" or "Metric" threads. Three basic types of threads- commonly called Coarse, Fine & Metric.

Ok, here goes on the threading as far as I know. Example: 10/24 thread is coarse, 10/32 is fine. The first number is size/diameter (#10) and the second is the threads per inch. Another example is 1/4"-20 is coarse and 1/4"-28 is fine.

On metric bolts they basically do the same thing except I have not seen a coarse and fine thread per say in the same size/diameter bolt. Example: 3mm-.50 pitch, 4mm-.70 pitch, 5mm-.80 pitch, 6mm-1.00 pitch, etc. 5mm would be the size/diameter and the .80 would per .80 threads per mm.

So yes when I said standard I was referring to both standard and coarse threads, just not metric. I only used the smaller sizes because I figured there would not be anything on a gun larger that what I showed.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

Ok, here goes on the threading as far as I know. Example: 10/24 thread is coarse, 10/32 is fine. The first number is size/diameter (#10) and the second is the threads per inch. Another example is 1/4"-20 is coarse and 1/4"-28 is fine.

On metric bolts they basically do the same thing except I have not seen a coarse and fine thread per say in the same size/diameter bolt. Example: 3mm-.50 pitch, 4mm-.70 pitch, 5mm-.80 pitch, 6mm-1.00 pitch, etc. 5mm would be the size/diameter and the .80 would per .80 threads per mm.

So yes when I said standard I was referring to both standard and coarse threads, just not metric. I only used the smaller sizes because I figured there would not be anything on a gun larger that what I showed.

Good explanation. I dont think Metric has Coarse and Fine. It is all the same.

I actually missed this question on my HVAC license test. The question was "Name the three types of threads commonly used in the United States?"

The answer is "Coarse, Fine and Metric."

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Re: old no-name pistol

The grip strap with the European "1" (no serif & long nose) in an entirely different number makes me think it is an assemblage of two diffreent pistols or pieced together. You can still buy components from Dixie Gun Works and others. Most manufacturers use the last three or four digits of the serial number to mark sub-assemblies and pieces so they don't get jumbled on the bench.

I'd also think "rusty thumbprint" before "bloody thumbprint" on anything more than a year old. Looks like it has been cleaned up some - that would have wiped off easily.

As far as "Defarbing" - you don't have to "defarb" what has never been marked. The factories didn't start adding the "Black Powder Only" until the litigious 70's when folks started blowing themselves up with massive overloads of Bulleye and Unique powders in these pistols.

Here is a rifle that was a month old when photographed. Artificially acid toned & pitted to look 200 years old. Even some "on purpose" dings in the wood. But it is dated 2006 if you look. Looks old and there's not a modern stamp or mark on it, and no metric threads, either. All brand new components.

 

[72cheyenne]

Re: old no-name pistol

Ok, here goes on the threading as far as I know. Example: 10/24 thread is coarse, 10/32 is fine. The first number is size/diameter (#10) and the second is the threads per inch. Another example is 1/4"-20 is coarse and 1/4"-28 is fine.

On metric bolts they basically do the same thing except I have not seen a coarse and fine thread per say in the same size/diameter bolt. Example: 3mm-.50 pitch, 4mm-.70 pitch, 5mm-.80 pitch, 6mm-1.00 pitch, etc. 5mm would be the size/diameter and the .80 would per .80 threads per mm.

So yes when I said standard I was referring to both standard and coarse threads, just not metric. I only used the smaller sizes because I figured there would not be anything on a gun larger that what I showed.

Good explanation. I dont think Metric has Coarse and Fine. It is all the same.

I actually missed this question on my HVAC liscense test. The question was "Name the three types of threads commonly used in the United States?"

The answer is "Coarse, Fine and Metric."

Correct....Coarse, Fine, and Metric except when you get to 8mm and bigger. Then you have 8mm-1.0, 8mm-1.25, 10mm-1.25, 10mm-1.50, etc. Can be confusing at times. Sorry to hijack, dozer. Back to the gun discussion.

 

[rmptr]

Re: old no-name pistol

WoW!

I would have flunked the hvac test, for sure!

SAE nat. coarse, and fine thread
NPT for pipe.

Metric runs in two pitches + pipe thread.

Then there's ISO.

Whitworth

What standard are machine screws cut to?

Wood screws.

Sheet metal screws.

Self-tapping screws

Drywall screws come in two different threads. For use in wood, and for metal studs.

...and I think all the above, excepting Whitworth, could be used or found in the HVAC trade.

The bloomin' head bolts on GM 305 V-8's had a special thread that's got to have a name...

It's well known many gun manufacturers cut unique pitches on threads.
Gunsmiths need extra reduction gear sets to achieve them.

What have I forgotten?


rmptr

 

[72cheyenne]

Re: old no-name pistol

What have I forgotten?


rmptr

Left handed threads.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

WoW!

I would have flunked the hvac test, for sure!

SAE nat. coarse, and fine thread
NPT for pipe.

Thats what I said.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

What have I forgotten?


rmptr

Left handed threads.

sometimes on these test questions it is not good to overthink the answer. I think Pipe thread is the same as Coarse but tapered.

 

[rmptr]

Re: old no-name pistol

What have I forgotten?


rmptr

Left handed threads.

sometimes on these test questions it is not good to overthink the answer.

...I guess you can tell there's only room for 1 ( ) in my operation!

Sheesh! I can't believe I missed the left hand thread!
Better get a bigger hammer for the tough ones!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

I think there is another type of thread that is used in shut off valves. Its very coarse.

 

[Drache]

Re: old no-name pistol

That is what appears to be a ONCE original Griswold & Gunnison at one time but has been heavily reworked over the years. In some of your pictures you can see some of the original numbers stamped by the factory and then someone at some time has restamped over them at a later date

The small 2 at the beginning appears to be part of the original serial number. Also some of the parts appeared to have been swapped at later dates (mostly likely as they wore out).

The wear at top of the end of the barrel has also worn off the "front site" that was there.

The front part of the ramming rod appears to have been repaired, thus the "2 piece construction".

As for the coloring, I think that the bluing was starting to wear off and one of the previous owners just rubbed the rest of the bluing off to bring it down to the bear metal. Thus would also help the fingerprint rust into the bottom of the barrel also.

It MIGHT be a copy of a G&G but I highly doubt it and it MIGHT be a "newer" reproduction of a G&G but that I doubt as well considering the use and age it shows.

 

[diggerdan]

Re: old no-name pistol

I've a little to add here on metric vs standard threads. I bought a percussion m/l 'Track of the Wolf' parts, american made bbl. from a guy that had a semi loose nipple in it. The correct one was 1/4-28 tpi, the one in it was metric, believe 6mm but can't recall for sure.

There ought to be enough different sized screws on the gun to tell if they are standard or metric, very few will interchange and the fit between the bolt and the nut will be off.

I would have the gun appraised by a knowlegeable source were it mine. It's a win/win. Worst case is peace of mind.

 

[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

come on, wake up. theres got to be something we haven't thought of or mentioned yet.


don't be shy. im interested in any opinions.