some sort of fraternal order collar?SOLVED !

terryo · Sep 22, 2009

this is some kind of ceromonial collar ,stole , or somehting I found at a yard sale last year, and I still can't find out any thing about it.Can anyone give me some ideas? I looked up the maker, and know its pre-1950's, but that is about it.Any idea's?

allen · Sep 22, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

looks like one of the collars my
priest wears when hes in a foul mood !

oldtimer82 · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

hi guys, i just binged [ c.p.p. ] it came back with Communist party of the Philippines, maybe?
h.h.
oldtimer

oldtimer82 · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

hi guys, just did a search for c.p.p. came back with one that says communist party of the phillipines
might be a old coller from their uniforms?
h.h.
oldtimer

Bigcypresshunter · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

terryo said:
this is some kind of ceromonial collar ,stole , or somehting I found at a yard sale last year, and I still can't find out any thing about it.Can anyone give me some ideas? I looked up the maker, and know its pre-1950's, but that is about it.Any idea's?

Who is the maker?

johnnyi · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

One side of the collar reads, "PC 480". It seems that would make it likely that the other side would read, "P. C. P. 165" rather than C.P.P.).
(Good luck looking up p.c.p. though without wading through chemical formulas!)
The crossed shepherd's staffs seem to hint that it's religious rather than fraternal.
For the p's you've got possibly parish? For the c's possibly christian, catholic? :dontknow:

DCMatt · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

For ease of research this item is called a "stole" not a collar.

I agree that the shepards hooks give it a Christian quality. But it just looks too frilly to be for a priest or pastor - maybe for a deacon or elder, though... Also, the numbers are odd for a worship vestment.

I'm thinking it's from some society, lodge, or order.

DCMatt

frogwizard · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

Could be the Oddfellows. I think one of their symbols has crossed shepherds crooks.

terryo · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

The maker is the Lilley Co., and I think I have it narrowed down to 1925-1931 era. I have looked up the order of Oddfellows, but couldn't find much on rainments and such...It is quite well made, and very ornate.I have tried also Knights Templar, and Knights of Columbus,fraternal orders searches, still no joy.It does seem religious in nature, because of the crossed staffs, but no crosses are on it. I am not exactly up to speed on a lot of religious symbolism,and there are too many religions to choose from! :icon_scratch:

Bigcypresshunter · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

terryo said:
The maker is the Lilley Co., and I think I have it narrowed down to 1925-1931 era. I have looked up the order of Oddfellows, but couldn't find much on rainments and such...It is quite well made, and very ornate.I have tried also Knights Templar, and Knights of Columbus,fraternal orders searches, still no joy.It does seem religious in nature, because of the crossed staffs, but no crosses are on it. I am not exactly up to speed on a lot of religious symbolism,and there are too many religions to choose from!

The Lilley Company made swords. http://www.ruble-enterprises.com/lilley.htm It would seem likely that this came with a sword and belt for an unknown fraternity in the 1925-1931 era.

LILLEY AMES CO.
Columbus Ohio 1951-1953

THE LILLEY-AMES CO.
Columbus Ohio 1931-1951

THE LILLEY CO.
Columbus Ohio 1925-1931

THE M. C. LILLEY & CO
Columbus Ohio 1882-1925

M. C. LILLEY & CO
Columbus Ohio 1865-1882

MITCHELL C. LILLEY
Columbus Ohio up to 1865

Bigcypresshunter · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

Most of the swords manufactured by Lilley sword companies over the years were society swords. Here is a list of societies that may have used Lilley swords. http://www.ruble-enterprises.com/society_marks.htm

terryo · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

Thanks BCH, now that is a LIST !That will give me a few more hours of searches !I wish I could figure out which order it came from.The problem with Fraternal Orders is that there are a lot of secrets rituals involved in some orders, so information is sketchy at best. It could be also that every member is now dead, and the secrets died with them. Or, it could be some common thing , albeit very ornate !Surely someone knows out there, right guys ?Nudge ,nudge, wink , wink, moooooo....

Bigcypresshunter · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

From my link: Society Swords carried by so-called secret societies or fraternal societies were very popualr in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Society and military associations became very popular after the Civil War and around 1900 there were over seven million members. There were many types of societies that carried swords, including Military, Military Association, Fraternal, Religious, Veteran, Social, Benevolent, Occupational, Political, Patriotic, Mystic, Nationality, and Antinationality.

johnnyi · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

frogwizard, good call on that odd fellows lead! I happen to have several of the turn of the century ames catalogues around the place (I never throw anything away

) and the collars are very similar. (have yet to dig up another stack I have buried around here somewhere which I believe includes odd fellows, but will look toinight) You can see in the scan the bottom right example does have the lodge type of lettering included in the design (in these cases which are patterns for the rebekah lodge) the "P' stands for "past" as in "Past Noble etc. etc.) Don't know if that will be a clue or not regarding odd fellows.

Bigcypresshunter · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

I orginally dismissed Oddfellows because it didnt have two crossed crooks, only one with a sword, no FLT or the 3 links. But maybe I dismissed it too quickly. Here is an Oddfellows grave with 2 crossed sheperd crooks. (notice the 3 links)

Bigcypresshunter · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

I think you got it Johnny. :icon_thumright:

It looks like your last collar. The evidence is piling up. Here are the 3 links. (FLT) Friendship, Love & Truth. http://www.tngenweb.org/darkside/ioof.html You can clearly see the 3 links in the Ames catalogue artist drawings..

Bigcypresshunter · Sep 25, 2009

Re: some sort of fraternal order collar?

johnnyi said:
One side of the collar reads, "PC 480". It seems that would make it likely that the other side would read, "P. C. P. 165" rather than C.P.P.).
(Good luck looking up p.c.p. though without wading through chemical formulas!)

http://www.ioof.org/acronyms.html

PCP= Past Chief Patriarch

Could the other be PG? Past Grand?