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Spain inspected the site seized by Odyssey

037-dibujo-5.webp
 

Remember this from the photomosaic? What is the max depth one would find a sculpin?

3wha9.jpg


21et1yo.jpg


30nm S of the Coast is International Waters, isn't it?
 

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AUVnav said:
Remember this from the photomosaic? What is the max depth one would find a sculpin?

3wha9.jpg


21et1yo.jpg


30nm S of the Coast is International Waters, isn't it?
Click to expand...

EEZ of Portugal. EEZ 200 nm
 

"The Defendant Site rests on the sea floor of the Atlantic Ocean at a depthof approximately 1100 meters, beyond the territorial waters or contiguous zone ofany sovereign nation. The Defendant Site s position is located within a five mileradius of the center point coordinates which have been provided to the Courtunder seal..."
 

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Pretty sure Claudio had found the forecastle, the portion that floated for days after the explosion...
 

In 1804 several Spanish ships of the same characteristics of the Mercedes sank in the Gulf of Cadiz - Strait of Gibraltar.
 

The video is amazing. Some incredible technology on the ROV

"It has also been able to see how the treasure hunters have irretrievably damaged the site , since they acted with metal blades, dragged coins and with them removed the sediment in a hurry, in the wild, destroying the context and leaving "complete chaos" as the archaeologist. "

"On the probable (and desirable) legal consequences of having documented plundering, the minister said Mendez de Vigo, with due caution, the documentation will meet to submit for consideration of the Spanish justice what happened . As you may recall, Spain won in the courts of Florida but there just was understood about the ownership of the wreck and therefore the same load. But what happened in "the scene" never said nothing . The Spanish justice began investigating (UCO meritorious work of the Civil Guard and Navy) but has yet to open his mouth, even though in our courts is settled for eight years criminal lawsuit by the plundering of Odyssey perhaps the most important summary of Europe on the destructive practices of treasure hunters right now. The court number 3 of the Linea de la Concepcion has left dying that summary action against Odyssey : has not gone beyond the preliminary investigation since Malaga Nerea Archaeology company sued them, something that is not understood as a lawsuit is certainly strengthen the State's position against treasure hunters and the message of Spain in this regard would be meridian. Nerea was a case of commitment from civil society that was denouncing and reporting activities Odyssey Administration for years, but his warnings were taken into account, which ended as over.
Until yesterday we had only images that Odyssey would offer on the site. Now that he has filmed and studied Spanish scientists can assess what damage has been caused by the American company and this would, of course, that this does not go unpunished plunder.
Like any plunder that the law punishes."
 

AUVnav said:
The video is amazing. Some incredible technology on the ROV

"It has also been able to see how the treasure hunters have irretrievably damaged the site , since they acted with metal blades, dragged coins and with them removed the sediment in a hurry, in the wild, destroying the context and leaving "complete chaos" as the archaeologist. "

"On the probable (and desirable) legal consequences of having documented plundering, the minister said Mendez de Vigo, with due caution, the documentation will meet to submit for consideration of the Spanish justice what happened . As you may recall, Spain won in the courts of Florida but there just was understood about the ownership of the wreck and therefore the same load. But what happened in "the scene" never said nothing . The Spanish justice began investigating (UCO meritorious work of the Civil Guard and Navy) but has yet to open his mouth, even though in our courts is settled for eight years criminal lawsuit by the plundering of Odyssey perhaps the most important summary of Europe on the destructive practices of treasure hunters right now. The court number 3 of the Linea de la Concepcion has left dying that summary action against Odyssey : has not gone beyond the preliminary investigation since Malaga Nerea Archaeology company sued them, something that is not understood as a lawsuit is certainly strengthen the State's position against treasure hunters and the message of Spain in this regard would be meridian. Nerea was a case of commitment from civil society that was denouncing and reporting activities Odyssey Administration for years, but his warnings were taken into account, which ended as over.
Until yesterday we had only images that Odyssey would offer on the site. Now that he has filmed and studied Spanish scientists can assess what damage has been caused by the American company and this would, of course, that this does not go unpunished plunder.
Like any plunder that the law punishes."
Click to expand...
Auvnav, I'm still waiting for documents stating that Spain's going to try and sue over the 1715 wrecks. In the mean time, could you please provide documents showing that Spain's going to sue Odyessy for disturbing the sea floor of another Country.
 


Auvnav, I'm still waiting for documents stating that Spain's going to try and sue over the 1715 wrecks. In the mean time, could you please provide documents showing that Spain's going to sue Odyessy for disturbing the sea floor of another Country.
Click to expand...


Sorry, this aint't Walmart, satisfaction is not promised or guaranteed.


"The government is preparing to request information from the Spanish consulate in Miami after the recent announcement of different treasure hunters companies that have extracted gold of wrecks 1715 fleet sunk off Florida, called on the French Treasury.Also, taking into account that this ship of State, consult with the lawyer James Goold, who represented Spain in cases of Juno and La Galga against Sea Hunt and Mercedes frigate against Odyssey.Spain won both cases (precisely because it was government vessels with sovereign immunity), and from the government both from the law firm in Washington said he sat a precedent that would influence the activity of treasure hunters companies: "If the treasure hunters have not gotten the message is living in a cave, "said Goold ABC "
The finding of 350 gold deposits in Vero Beach (Florida), where the fleet sank in 1715, has once again starkly open debate treasure hunters and the destruction of the historical record of Hispanic origin in the US. UU. at the hands of these "miners' heritage , which only removed the gold and items they can sell. When we remember the 1715 fleet, speak eleven thousand wrecks and dead sailors, such as Spanish American history, along with the famous coin treasure hunt these small businesses removed, regardless of the field and destroy them the context in which they have remained for 300 years."

http://abcblogs.abc.es/espejo-de-navegantes/2015/08/21/consultas-tras-el-saqueo-de-los-restos-de-once-buques-de-estado-en-florida/


Who said anything about the crime of disturbing the seabed? The criminal proceedings were for plundering the Mercedes, and now the evidence shows destruction of artifacts.

Not my circus, not my monkey.
 

AUVnav said:



Sorry, this aint't Walmart, satisfaction is not promised or guaranteed.


"The government is preparing to request information from the Spanish consulate in Miami after the recent announcement of different treasure hunters companies that have extracted gold of wrecks 1715 fleet sunk off Florida, called on the French Treasury.Also, taking into account that this ship of State, consult with the lawyer James Goold, who represented Spain in cases of Juno and La Galga against Sea Hunt and Mercedes frigate against Odyssey.Spain won both cases (precisely because it was government vessels with sovereign immunity), and from the government both from the law firm in Washington said he sat a precedent that would influence the activity of treasure hunters companies: "If the treasure hunters have not gotten the message is living in a cave, "said Goold ABC "
The finding of 350 gold deposits in Vero Beach (Florida), where the fleet sank in 1715, has once again starkly open debate treasure hunters and the destruction of the historical record of Hispanic origin in the US. UU. at the hands of these "miners' heritage , which only removed the gold and items they can sell. When we remember the 1715 fleet, speak eleven thousand wrecks and dead sailors, such as Spanish American history, along with the famous coin treasure hunt these small businesses removed, regardless of the field and destroy them the context in which they have remained for 300 years."

http://abcblogs.abc.es/espejo-de-navegantes/2015/08/21/consultas-tras-el-saqueo-de-los-restos-de-once-buques-de-estado-en-florida/


Who said anything about the crime of disturbing the seabed? The criminal proceedings were for plundering the Mercedes, and now the evidence shows destruction of artifacts.

Not my circus, not my monkey.
Click to expand...
Auvnav, I don't shop at Wal Mart either, but when " You" make a statement that Spain's going after the 1715 wrecks. I would have thought that you had facts in hand, not rumors.

Thanks for the Rumor and good luck in thinking Spain can collect on a lawsuit against Odyessy for disturbing a wreck that Spain already got the cargo from. My rumor is that the only ones to make money on that lawsuit will be the lawyers.
 

Spain has already collected on the Mercedes, the cargo and the Contempt of Court charges.

Spain stated before that the charges are criminal, not civil. No one has seen the criminal charges from the #3 Court, as they have been held in secret. They did use the charges as a foundation to sieze and blockade the ships and question the crew, so I would not take this lightly.

In regards to the 1715 fleet, they appear to be going after the archaeological methods, such as the blower boxes, and suction hoses in the recoveries. There is a foundation for that as Florida does have archaeological requirements, and there is also the environmental issue of the turbidity.

Was there a need to advertise the coins, perhaps looking to increase the value? Why was this find splashed all over National news? I fail to see the logic in that, as it always brings about something bad.

I remember quite a bit of the same rhetoric regarding the Mercedes, and look how that turned out.
 

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AUVnav said:
Was there a need to advertise the coins, perhaps looking to increase the value? Why was this find splashed all over National news? I fail to see the logic in that, as it always brings about something bad. I remember quite a bit of the same rhetoric regarding the Mercedes, and look how that turned out.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you on this. No one should advertise finding treasure. There's a reason for the old sayings, "There's trouble with treasure," and "Loose lips sink ships."

However, prior to the Mercedes, no one thought much of it. The Sea Hunt debacle was never taken seriously. Everyone keeps calling Spain greedy. Interestingly enough, the National Park Service was the original instigator with Sea Hunt over the LaGalga and the Juno. Spain was not. Once attorney James Goold (also an Amercian) got involved, it has turned the tide ever since. So it has been the US elite that got Spain lured in this whole "archie vs. treasure hunter" mess anyway. Before Sea Hunt and Goold, Spain could care less. Of course, Sea Hunt's case became the precedent needed in the Odyssey incident. The wiki-leaks also showed once again, American back door deals.

I digress. I suspect Odyssey, and now Brisben felt safe under prior MOs. Too bad they advertised as they did. Public proclamation will always make you a target. Especially to the US ambulance-chasing lawyers like Goold. Not that I'm saying Spain is squeaky clean in this affair - I just want to balance the scales with some background and reality checks from our side of the pond.
 

Concur.

I find it very strange that most people on the board feel that same way, just keep the find quiet....

In many ways, it seems that Florida has been getting tougher over the years, and this may be a tipping point. If they follow the Federal stance and the stance of many other States, the adventure is doomed.

I suspect they will begin by making the conditions of recovery so onerous, most people will just give up. Look at what has happened in California with gold dredging. US files brief against small scale miners
 

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Apples and Oranges....

All the cases of shipwrecks as mentioned that went wrong in the courts were in the "discovery" phase.

The 1715 fleet is 30+ year old settled federal law, appointed ownership.

Public notice was properly placed at the time of the federal admiralty arrest. ONLY the state of Florida came forward with a claim. The federal court awarded ownership/custodianship to the private sector salvage company filing the arrest.... over 30 years ago.

Of course a lawyer will take money to sue, that's their job.....

"Advertise" confusion in translation? Breaking NEWS... of not only a historical find but of a historical time.

Rick Schmitt has called the 1715 Royal 8 Escudo they found the resurrection coin, because it brings back to life the story of the 1715 Fleet in its 300 anniversary year. With that also a remembrance of the people.

Feats accomplished by few throughout history IS news. How many people accomplish such feats at such a precise moment in time? The findings are historical themselves.

The reward for the hard working crews from their peers and the public that dream of doing such a thing is a very good reason to celebrate the finds. International news picked up the story across the globe because it touches people from all over.

"The finding of a great treasure from the days of the Spanish Main is not the cherished dream of only the United States and Florida citizens; countless peoples from other lands have shared such thoughts. It would amaze and surprise most citizens of this country, when their dream, at the greatest of costs, was realized, the agents of respective governments would, on the most flimsy grounds, lay claim to the treasure."
---Judge William O.Mehrtens
U.S. District Court of the Southern District of Florida
August 21, 1978 Ruling Against the State of Florida
 

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