Spanish Galleon (was Gallion)

[Tommi]

Dear Sirs and Madams

I'm pretty new to the TH'ing scene, so please bare with me.

If a ship went aground on a sandy beach and became shipwrecked, over maybe 4 hundred years would it become submerged into the sand and eventually become a sand dune?

Has anyone ever found a shipwreck above ground.... buried?

Kind regards
Tom.

 

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[Tommi]

Re: Spanish Gallion

Thanks for your reply PC,

I must say I love those pics you took of the cannons, great work!

The ship I'm chasing, is suppose to have been shipwrecked on a sand island, now I need some feed back on theories, I speculate that ship hit bad weather, scared it might hit a reef, the captain headed for a lagoon opening on the island seeking shelter.
The ship may have accessed the lagoon area on a high tide, next day tide dropped, ship remained high and dry and could of sustained damage.
Something may have occurred such as the crew being killed by natives, died of lack of food/water etc.
Ship remained in lagoon.

Now because it is a sand island and most of lagoon now is covered up, I believe that the somehow the ship may have broken up or maybe turned on its side and became buried under layer and layer of sand. 400 yrs ago the sand levels would of been lower and over the years the sand has become higher making sand dunes etc.

So, I'm looking for a odd looking sand dune.

All I'm going by is local myth and legend, but I believe I can locate it in good time.

Tom.

 

[Treasure Seeker]

Re: Spanish Gallion

Welcome to the Forum!

The only problem I have with shipwrecks being wrecked on the shore... Is the fact that it would have been really easy for them to take any treasure they may have had on the ship and/or bury it on-shore. Burying on shore now makes it much more difficult to find!

Unless... They were killed by Indians right away... But then the Indians would have taken the strange looking metal. hehe..

I'm no expert - just my immediate thoughts...

Welcome again!

TS

 

[Treasure Seeker]

Re: Spanish Gallion

I think the chase alone would be worth the effort.? Good luck

I agree PC. I'd be happy finding a cannon ball.

 

[Capt. Buzzkill]

Re: Spanish Galleon

..and its GALLEON brother....and try hitting the area after all this weather the last month...maybe not Jupiter but the Keys for sure.
Good Luck,

Capt Buzz

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Spanish Gallion

The September Treasure Coast hurricanes left large wood beams, telephone pole type wood, boards, trees, and old boat beams of all ages, all over the stripped beach. Before work crews could clean-up, the sand, within weeks buried everything. Under the beach sand, now lies lifeguard stands, boardwalks, stairways, the whole Vero Beach pier, trees, and driftwood. They are so deep now, I doubt a metal detector would pick up the nails. Some beaches needed to be cleaned, but others through sand back up burying everything. So in my opinion, the answer is yes, definitely, a whole ship could be buried if it beached itself during a severe storm. cypresshunter.

 

[gldhntr]

Re: Spanish Gallion

i watched a ford pick-up totally disappear in the sands of daytona while living there...some one had left it there at low tide...after the tide came in and receeded back out the truck was gone....when i first saw it there was water already over the tires... the waves would wash all the sand from around it and it just sank deeper and deeper.....local said it happens quite often.........................gldhntr

 

[JakePhelps]

Re: Spanish Gallion

So theoretically, someone could find a tuck on the beach detecting Might need a big scoop for that one

 

[gldhntr]

Re: Spanish Gallion

i have seen numerous times after hurricanes where the storm had dropped the beach level as much as 12-15 feet......i have also seen this be replenished by nature at times in as little as 2-3 days........no force as strong as mother nature..................gldhntr

 

[billinstuart]

Re: Spanish Gallion

Consider the mechanisms of construction that Ma Nature uses to play with the beach environment. Sand dunes are almost always composed of WIND BLOWN sand, which to be moved by the wind must be small "fines". Since there is no movement of water AROUND the item (ship, sea oat) the item will not settle downward..however, the dune can build up. On the beach water movement around an item undermines it, and it subsides. Additionally, beach sand moved by water is in constant flux, moving in and out with the waves, and ultimately north or south. Coarse sand, steep beaches..the waves carry material in, the water velocity slows, the material falls out of suspension and is deposited, the retreating water soaks into the beach, with much less return volume. Daytona is different, fine sand, flat beach. Water erodes in both directions, and vehicles sink quickly. Yrs. Truly usedta live in Daytona, before the inlet was stabilized..You could tell when the tide changed cuz wreckers would show up in droves at the north side of the inlet to tow tourists out of the surf. It was virtually flat, and each wave would break about a foot closer to shore.

 

[gldhntr]

Re: Spanish Gallion

lived there too in '82-'86......saw the same thing many times..............gldhntr

 

[grizzly bare]

Re: Spanish Gallion

Check the site of The Queen Anne's Revenge. It was thought for years that she was under water, now it appears she was under 15 feet (or so) of beach.
It's definitely possible that a ship could become covered with sand. If you're really into deep thought try googling pearl ship in the desert about that spanish galleon that lies in the california desert.
grizzly bare

 

[Tommi]

Re: Spanish Galleon

Thank you for your welcomes and feed back.

I was only about 60% sure that a ship could disappear into the sands without any body noticing, well the wreckage has been sighted back in the 1890's and 1910's but on both accounts the people involved couldn't locate the ship when they returned to the sight. that would be right wouldn't it

Now I have a very cheap and nasty metal detector I bought at Target, I know, big mistake which I'm kicking myself for... so now I'm the market for something that can actually detect my car from 3 feet away thinking of a MineLabs Quattro.

To tell you the truth, I am in it for the chase, to be able to be the 1st to find this ship and actually prove that it exists would be like winning the lottery. A cannon ball would be even better, I wonder if I can stick a canon on the front lawn
I should stop dreaming and walk to the tree before I think about climbing it.

Thanks again guys, you have been very helpful.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

If a ship went aground on a sandy beach and became shipwrecked, over maybe 4 hundred years would it become submerged into the sand and eventually become a sand dune?

Has anyone ever found a shipwreck above ground.... buried?

Kind regards
Tom.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HOLA TOM:? Very interesting, I am in somewhat the same "boat"? hehe.

Seems that an English pirate, Cromwell,? used to raid the Sea of Cortez ports and ships which were prime pickings in those days since a tremendous amount of metal was shipped by small and medium? sized boats down to Acapulco, then by land to Mexico city to escape the bandit gangs that contolled the land routes.

He naturally knew of all possible hiding places, and used to anchor south of Los Mochis in a bay which was hidden from the sea and had a fresh water spring.

One day while he was at sea, a one of a century hurricane developed and caught him north of Los Mochis. He tried to tack to the south without results, so headed into a nearby bay.? After entering he dropped anchor, but, on the sandy bottom, it dd not dig in, so he drifted in a? Southern direction. The ship passed over a small sandy island which tore out the bottom. It continued drifting in a southern direction gradually breaking up until it finally sank, There were no survivors.? The local Indians buried them.

The Indians told me that according to their ancestors,? remains of the ship , trunks, cannon? etc? were visable at low tide for many years.? The water depth is about 25 ft.? The lower end of the bay is now filled in from later storms so effectively the ship must be under sand.? There have been reports of finding gold coins on the lower end in sand.


Jose de La Mancha? ( I tilt windmills )

p.s. Ideas anyone?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hola Jose . If you can believe this story? ( and why should?nt you ) it is worthwhile to do some research on the matter . Certainly there is a nice story in it don?t you think .? Cornelius

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) I agree? Cornelius.? ?I know where the sand island is, it still exists.? According to the Indians his anchors actually did hold after a fashion, I assume similar to a? sea anchor.? In any event the locking device for the chains failed and allowed the ship to pass over the sand island by dragging the chains from the lockers,? taking her bottom out.

This also means that the chain still lies on or near the present island.? Naturally it points directly towards the final resting place.

The origin of the story came when I noticed a group of what appeared to be small tel poles to the south. When I questioned them as to what they were, they told me that was where they buried the Yoris that they had found drowned on the shore.? They said that theyhad? used the poles as grave markers since they were Christian.

Later some of their relatives from the Mochis area, told me of their grandfathers? telling them of watching this ship at anchor in a hidden bay.? They watched them from the cliffs sorting out things on the deck, many of which they threw overboard.? It occurs to me that the bottom must have quite a few interesting artifacts? hhehehe.

The complete story is longer naturally, but prelimnary checking suggests that the salvage laws place it under the State's jurisdiction with The fishing co-operate holding basic salvage rights. They can be dealt with, no problem.

I hear rumors of another ship, unknown, that lies at the entrance of the bay in perhaps 90' of water.


Jose de La MAncha? ( I tilt windmills )

 

[Tommi]

Hola Jose

It does seem we are in the same boat however, its not the same one we are looking for

I'm curious, so when you are going to look for this ship, you will have to dive?

With my boat, there seems to be a small possibility that it it could be in a rather large creek. I'm looking to build my own ROV and hopefully I can use that and still remain dry

From the details I have researched, unfortunately if I do find the ship it will be under federal jurisdiction and I won't be able to remove one artifact. Unless there is some kind of loop hole.
It bugs me the government knows of thousands of ships lost around the local waters, and nothing is done to find the important ships let alone marking the sites were these ships may lay.

 

[Darren in NC]

Tommi,

Just read Sea Hunters by Clive Cussler. His organization, NUMA, has found several shipwrecks on land. So yes, it is possible.

 

[Tommi]

Thanks Darren, I'll have to find that book at the local book shop and have a read.

I'm still trying to researcher all this TH stuff.... I didn't know it was so popular!
I honestly didn't think any treasure specially pirate treasure existed!

Now I'm reading that posions and traps could be set up to kill people who find treasure and its sorta making me think twice.

 

[Tommi]

Hello fellow TH's

Thought I'll give you an update on my progress.

I believe I have found a possible site of interest. Its located near a inland Lake that has a surface area of 7.3 hectares and a maximum depth of 9.4 meters. The lake is a depression that extends below the island?s water table. The Lake is approx 1.2miles from the shore line. Therefore it is possible that 400yrs could equal 1.2miles of sand build up? And it is also possible that 400yrs ago this was a bay?

From the research I have conducted, there is talk of another 2 ships around the same era in the vicinity of the Galleon I am after.
Also I must add that from earlier reports with even GPS information have been designed to throw the researcher out, some contradictory information was located, but from all reports the area which they all mention must be the area I have found.

I have been studying aerial shots of area, any tips in spotting a buried wreck from the sky?
EG: Lack of trees growing, increased erosion, discolouration of the sand, maybe even a kind of bog hole?


EDITED: Please see below,
Attached is a aerial photo of the area of interest, it is near the lake in question. Please note that the cleared area is actually on the side of a hill.

Can I please get some feed back.
Cheers
Tom.

 

[Tommi]

Another update

A fellow TH'er has found information regarding the remains of a skeleton uncovered from a sand dune, it appears that the skeleton remains had a clay pipe of dutch design, now we are getting some where on the research side !
I have come to the conclusion that the area I am looking into must be the same area once known as shipwreck bay, due to its position, stories, eye wittiness accounts and aerial photography showing sand layers.

I feel like I'm getting closer and closer, the travel arrangements have been made so I'm just waiting on some nice weather so I can get a feel for the area.

Recap:
reports of unknown Galleon wrecked on island
reports of another 2 ships near the wrecked Galleon
Above suggests this could be the fabled 'Shipwreck Bay'
Geography of area shows it once was a bay