st. park

[kawalabear]

A few weeks ago we were told that we could not MD at this park because the rule is take nothing.
well while we were being told to take nothing , a couple came out of the woods trail with a deer antler shed, and arrow head & a piece of a clay pipe. nothing was said to them as they showed off the finds ? also we were right by the water where people were fishing and keeping the fish. also this is a park with hunting grounds. this is not a civil war site park or anything like that just a regular st. park for everyone to enjoy, except MD'S that is .

 

[Tom_in_CA]

When you say "you were told....", was this because you went and asked "can I detect?" Or was this because some park personell saw you, and walked up to inform you?

But regarding your talk of arbitrary enforcement: If someone of those very people you give as examples (who picked wildflowers, or pretty stones up, antlers, fish, etc.....) was to have walked up to those very same rangers (who didn't seem to care or notice) and ask "Can I pick up this antler?" or "can my daughter pick up these pretty stones for her gradeschool art project?" How much you wanna make a bet that they'd have been told "no"? So to me, this shows the psychology of "sometimes no one cares ..... TILL you ask".

 

[kawalabear]

no we dint ask , the web site said beaches can only be detected between 6-8 am in the morining nothing about the reg park . she said this park was not a beach so we could not detect there at all .

she came up to us and the other were only feet away with there finds. just not fair.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

NY is the same. You can detect but not remove. Some fun. Exception is the sand portion of the beach in the off season (at my local state park enclosed lake, anyway).

 

[Silver Surfer]

I would ask to see where the rule is stated/written...
I have a feeling that in most places "you cant" really means "I dont want you to", and nothing gets my dander up faster than people who think they have a lot more authority than they really do... Something is lacking in either their pants or blouse, so they make up for it in bossing/controlling people...
Nuff said and good luck..

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey silver surfer: odd that this follows right on the heels of your episode (which turned out to be successful). I would bet though, that even though you got your "scram" turned to a "go ahead", (once the silly issue of holes was worked out) that if you'd subsequently told the fellow "Oh goodie! does this mean I can take objects out of the city's park, for display on my own mantle place? " that they might have reconsidered their decision on yet OTHER grounds.

Sorry to say, that this "collecting" vebage is actually there, in almost any and all parks and public land. The logic is simple: What's to stop someone from mining for coal, setting up harvesting of some natural resource, or other such admitted abuses? (ie.: if everyone picked up a pretty rock on the beach, guess what would happen if a million people did the same thing?). I mean, for example: there are some campgrounds that prohibit picking up firewood off the ground (ie.: can't pick sticks, pine needles, etc... to use as kindling). You might ask "why not?? that's stupid?" But before they had this rule in Yosemite's more well-used campgrounds, entire acres of land around the more developed sites were continually being stripped of all ground cover! Even to the point where people were sawing down lower hanging branches! So you can see that .... in order to be uniform and accross-the-board, they do, in fact, have these "no collecting rules" most anywhere, if you were to look deep enough and hard enough

But JUST LIKE IN METAL DETECTING, we ALL know that if your little daughter picks up a pretty stone for her grade school art project, does anyone REALLY care? Of course not! *But* is she technically breaking some law? I suppose. Will anything become of it? Probably not, unless she or you go "ask permission".

I apply this same psychology to md'ing: If any of us looked long enough and hard enough, into ANY public land's rules, we'd probably ALL find numerous fronts to disqualify ourselves from ever stepping off the sidewalk. But does that mean anyone really cares? Probably not.

If someone does come up with to take issue with us, as in kawalbear's situation, then you can try to fight it, I suppose, or just avoid that one park or one gardener, in the future. I have even gotten to where I do most of my hunting at off-hours (late Sunday afternoon, after 5pm on weekdays, or actually, even night-hunting) JUST to avoid busy-bodies, to begin with.

 

[Silver Surfer]

I get the feeling that you are a very pro big-govt person... Yes, you have valid points. That is why I have been all for population control since I was a kid.. They want us to breed like rabbits so they have a continual increase in consumerism, but then feel the need to control us to keep us from using/abusing too many resources...
I dont think you have understood my point from the git-go... That point is... IF they have a rule, law, etc., then so be it.. I will obey it, respect it.. But I will not just sit back like a sheep while some arse wipe decides that he can make his OWN rules based on how he/she feels that day. I bring up my park story, and again the spearfishing example I spoke of before.
Show me the rule, or point me to where it is written.. But I will not do/not do things based on some employee OF THE PEOPLE telling me "because I said so"..

 

[skydiv]

in Il. I have to have a permit to hunt state parks. and it is free but, I can only hunt the picnic areas not the preserves.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

silver surfer, you say:

"IF they have a rule, law, etc., then so be it.. I will obey it"

So let me understand this then: In that bogus case you got corrected (that you weren't, in fact, leaving holes, making a mess, etc....), would you be willing to go back to see if they have any rules that forbid "collecting"? You know: like walk in to that same person that gave you the "yes", and say "does this mean that I can collect items from city owned lands to take home with me?" He may in fact show you wording that prohibits such collecting. Sure, we can rationalize that this applies to people up-rooting plants to take home to their own garden, or to apply to people who are going to start removing other fixtures, etc... But none-the-less, it can, and has been applied, to metal detecting too (afterall, some might argue that the items are city property, and city-history belongs in the museum, etc...).

So in keeping with what you said, would you be ready to throw in the towel at places with "collecting" verbage?

 

[kawalabear]

i wrote a letter and explained the situation , and asked if i could have permission to hunt that specific park. i doubt it will do any good but, i would love to go back with a letter in my pocket and have the same woman come up to me again. see someone has common sense .