Strange Victorio Peak Info... Maybe the answer to where the gold went?

[kanabite]

oh im good rog , just trying not to get too far ahead of myself . this is gonna take a while . think ill watch the game , the commercials make me laugh.
its more than just drawing lines on a map . i wonder what if anything is down in Texas ? wonder if i got a place called rain valley on that line too.think i heard that once .
i can think of two more very similar type of "artworks" off the top of my head , kinda jumps out at ya i guess .lots to let go and think about another day as you suggests.
thanks Rog
.///bob

 

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[gollum]

Kanabite

and so have I walked right over things , missing them the first and second and fortieth time .

Something interesting to ponder about myself , I sit hundreds of miles away from a site I was on .

Not even pondering it .
out of the blue a thought of it comes to forefront ,,,
I'll think for a bit ,,,

drop it for a while ,,,
then almost as an Epiphany ,,,,
The light comes on ,,,
DANG IT !
it was there the whole time , I missed it ,
then I go back into the Mnt's

and Bingo , right there it is .

Gollum
ease up tiger

You have the right to believe Oren knew where the cavern is , he did not to my knowledge
know anything about that Cavern .

as I said , he had his agenda and I laid that out for you , he lost a friend that was looking for that cave
the friend crashed his Ultra Lite Plane looking .

Oren was not a Treasure Hunter
He was not a Treasure Scholar

He simply went to people like my dad and Claude3 , who were the actual hunters ,
and pried for information from them .

and both Dad and Claude had to play Oren out of their hair , TRUE STORY THAT .

Of course , if you can prove that Oren knew the location , I'd like to see you there in person .
I'll be down there soon enough

right after I come back from Florida , I'll be back in New Mexico .
come on down there and show me 1300 steps buddy .

Oren traveled to a lot of places hunting treasure. While I do give props to your dad and Claude Suddreth, their area of operation was basically Southern New Mexico. Granted, there is enough in that area alone to keep many people busy for hundreds of years, but Oren's travels were a little more widespread. I don't personally care how you or your dad interacted with Oren, but you put yourself on a pillar of perfectness, and run down anybody that disagrees with you, or calls you out on your BS. I can stand at that cave, because I know its exact location. You don't have a clue. Especially if all you have to go on is from your dad.

You and I go through spurts of getting along then going at each others throats, because you seem to forget how to be civil to people. You get banned or timed out, then you come back with a bit of civility, then you slowly start back in with your BS. You stay civil when talking about others, and I won't be as rude as you are now to you. Civility for civility. You play nice, and I will be nice. You're not really a bad guy when you aren't calling people liars and going on crazy rants. Keep the meds dialed in, and we can get along just fine.

Mike

 

[treasminder2]

Deal is
Go to the 1300 steps cavern

go on ahead Gollum

go there , see for yourself that Oren was led to a false site .

I know Oren and for years I've known him
I know his situation with some of his exploits

No matter what he lived through
no matter where it led him

He never had a clue where dads cavern was .

He died with a dream still pacing the floors of his mind .
No problem that , all people
die with regrets about something .

He did work his tail off trying
it just was a matter of shadow chasing .

I had no problem with him as a person

However
He pulled something on a Dead Man ( my Father ) when that Dead Man had no way to defend himself .

I laid it down for him , and he knew for a fact I could prove my claims about him and ONFP

it was simple
stop his lies
or be exposed .

he stopped when I said that to him .

and now , just as he did post death with lies using my dads name , I lay the truth bare post death

I could have cut it loose while he was alive .
This is more compassionate by far .

 

[gollum]

Interesting. You will be posting that material ... right?

Sorry. Not quite. Still active. I don't post anything that I am still working on.

Mike

 

[gollum]

Deal is
Go to the 1300 steps cavern

go on ahead Gollum

go there , see for yourself that Oren was led to a false site .

I know Oren and for years I've known him
I know his situation with some of his exploits

No matter what he lived through
no matter where it led him

He never had a clue where dads cavern was .

He died with a dream still pacing the floors of his mind .
No problem that , all people
die with regrets about something .

He did work his tail off trying
it just was a matter of shadow chasing .

I had no problem with him as a person

However
He pulled something on a Dead Man ( my Father ) when that Dead Man had no way to defend himself .

I laid it down for him , and he knew for a fact I could prove my claims about him and ONFP

it was simple
stop his lies
or be exposed .

he stopped when I said that to him .

and now , just as he did post death with lies using my dads name , I lay the truth bare post death

I could have cut it loose while he was alive .
This is more compassionate by far .

Listen, you proved how reliable you were with the whole CIA incident? Remember that? You said that your research proved beyond doubt that Oren was a liar because in his story about a certain CIA Agent, and that guy was only 9 or 10 at the time, so it could not have been true? Remember that? Remember that in five minutes I tore your "research" up by showing the man was LBJ's Daughters boyfriend in 1965? Remember that?

You also make a very specific point that:

sorry man , again , Dad's Cavern where steps slope down , long natural wide steps that were layers of naturalstone and Natural , not hand laid by man , was never entered by Oren nor Claude that can be verified by anyone
I know of .

Funny thing is, your dad described the stairs differently to Childress:

The cowboy had gone into the nearly invisible cave, found CUT STAIRS going down underground, and began to follow the stairs.

Your dad told the story to Childress. Your dad used the words CUT STAIRS. Cut stairs are man made, NOT NATURAL. Another case of your awesome research abilities?

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gully you posted----I don't post anything that I am still working on.

Mike

################################

In my case I can and do, since I am protected. And by being relatively open about the project, I have received quite a bit of information that I didn't know existed.

Are you & and Dano, the bear, ever going to come down and see Tayopa for yourselves Judy can act as your guide.

Course being in the Caballos it is a different game, also far easier country to travel in.

 

[sdcfia]

Nobody, you're disturbing us! I guess we need to sic Frank Drebin on you ...

 

[treasminder2]

Conversations in a Family way :

Harvey : When we attempted to get the permits for recovery , The Treasury Dept. required that we give
a specific search area for the permit .
To insure we kept the exact site secure , we chose a one mile section as our area of interest , that would get us
to it with revealing the exact site of the 1300 steps .

640 acres , one square mile , and Hardscrabble peak was our southern most borderline .

Rog' : If Hiles was in on it with you , and already talked , would that not spoil the ploy ?

harvey: No , Hiles was not in our group , He was like everyone else up there , like the guys in
Carrizozo at the diner that day we ate breakfast and they all had tales to tell ,
He said he saw Doc leading a mule train toward hardscrabble ,,, with empty packs and returning with full packs through
the Basin ,,, Son ,, Doc had no mules for such an expedition , It was just a brag story Hiles made up .

Rog' : " WOW , why the lies ? ah man , all this stuff is rife with confusion man ,, So hiles shot at a lion , he also
saw Doc packing bars with mules , some Kid gets lost in a cavern for days ,,,
where in all of this has any facts ? "

Harvey : " The Two Bates Boys , along with that Kid , is the material i was interested in , I told the Bates about
the Kid , and they told me about a cave entrance that might fit , and about their dad hiding his savings
in that area , we agreed to drop me off , and I'd explore the area .

It was more luck than material when I hit it , and I'm sure it's the Kids cavern , it fit his description
with the steps ,, even though he never mentioned some things that were in there "

Rog' : So you placed at Hardscabble on the permits , to get you on the site , ho9w far from
Hardscrabble is it ? "

We stood and walked out on the front porch ,

Harvey Pointing across the Whitesands range ; " See that square top outcropping , that's the peak at the head
of the Canyon where the entrance is, That peak there is Harscrabble , as the crow flies , it's with 3/4's
of a mile from the tip of harscrabble , up that canyon there " ( pointing as I look along his arm )

Rog' : So the ploy was a ruse , to keep the Army from stealing it ? "

Harvey , : " yes , see we couldn't own gold in that amount , we couldn't get it out
with a lot of work , and that 8is why we offered it to the Treasury Department for 50% of value ,
Logistics called for it, yet , We'd rather live without it , than have what happen to Fiegie , happen to us "
so we had no choice , make a pact and maybe get a share , lose it , or leave it in the best Vault
it could be in "

Rog' after a few hours passing : " Last year that guy died flying around there with a Hang Glider ,,
was it Hardscrabble he was using for his search site ? because you were quoted in the book ( 100 tons of Gold )

Harvey : No Son , it was an Ultra Lite motorized aircraft , Oren set that Guy on the trail , when he died , Oren called and cussed, then showed up here claiming my lies got that Guy Killed , Claude and Dick are the ones that brought that oren Guy here
so " I sent him back to Claude ,,, saying " Go ask your buddy Claude where it's at "

Claude was a bit too friendly , we never gave him a locale on this , our stuff was in the Organs , mine and Claudes ,
this was the Bates Boys stuff , not mine , I just agreed to a share if I could find it for them ,,

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentlemen, that kid managed to kill himself in the hang glider by not uderstanding or studying mountain flying characteristics of a hang glider, the fault was only his. Don't carry any crosses, but your own..

 

[gollum]

Conversations in a Family way :

Harvey : When we attempted to get the permits for recovery , The Treasury Dept. required that we give
a specific search area for the permit .
To insure we kept the exact site secure , we chose a one mile section as our area of interest , that would get us
to it with revealing the exact site of the 1300 steps .

640 acres , one square mile , and Hardscrabble peak was our southern most borderline .

Rog' : If Hiles was in on it with you , and already talked , would that not spoil the ploy ?

harvey: No , Hiles was not in our group , He was like everyone else up there , like the guys in
Carrizozo at the diner that day we ate breakfast and they all had tales to tell ,
He said he saw Doc leading a mule train toward hardscrabble ,,, with empty packs and returning with full packs through
the Basin ,,, Son ,, Doc had no mules for such an expedition , It was just a brag story Hiles made up .

Rog' : " WOW , why the lies ? ah man , all this stuff is rife with confusion man ,, So hiles shot at a lion , he also
saw Doc packing bars with mules , some Kid gets lost in a cavern for days ,,,
where in all of this has any facts ? "

Harvey : " The Two Bates Boys , along with that Kid , is the material i was interested in , I told the Bates about
the Kid , and they told me about a cave entrance that might fit , and about their dad hiding his savings
in that area , we agreed to drop me off , and I'd explore the area .

It was more luck than material when I hit it , and I'm sure it's the Kids cavern , it fit his description
with the steps ,, even though he never mentioned some things that were in there "

Rog' : So you placed at Hardscabble on the permits , to get you on the site , ho9w far from
Hardscrabble is it ? "

We stood and walked out on the front porch ,

Harvey Pointing across the Whitesands range ; " See that square top outcropping , that's the peak at the head
of the Canyon where the entrance is, That peak there is Harscrabble , as the crow flies , it's with 3/4's
of a mile from the tip of harscrabble , up that canyon there " ( pointing as I look along his arm )

Rog' : So the ploy was a ruse , to keep the Army from stealing it ? "

Harvey , : " yes , see we couldn't own gold in that amount , we couldn't get it out
with a lot of work , and that 8is why we offered it to the Treasury Department for 50% of value ,
Logistics called for it, yet , We'd rather live without it , than have what happen to Fiegie , happen to us "
so we had no choice , make a pact and maybe get a share , lose it , or leave it in the best Vault
it could be in "

Rog' after a few hours passing : " Last year that guy died flying around there with a Hang Glider ,,
was it Hardscrabble he was using for his search site ? because you were quoted in the book ( 100 tons of Gold )

Harvey : No Son , it was an Ultra Lite motorized aircraft , Oren set that Guy on the trail , when he died , Oren called and cussed, then showed up here claiming my lies got that Guy Killed , Claude and Dick are the ones that brought that oren Guy here
so " I sent him back to Claude ,,, saying " Go ask your buddy Claude where it's at "

Claude was a bit too friendly , we never gave him a locale on this , our stuff was in the Organs , mine and Claudes ,
this was the Bates Boys stuff , not mine , I just agreed to a share if I could find it for them ,,

WOW! That's just amazing how you can make up complete conversations with your dad that passed away so long ago! You're just trying to be like what Hitler said "Repeat a big enough lie for long enough, and people will eventually accept it as truth!" Good luck with that!

Mike

 

[treasminder2]

her's the link of Oren making false claims about Batson and my Dad ( Harvey Snow )

https://books.google.com/books?id=u...=onepage&q=joe batson+oren swearingen&f=false


In 1961 Batson was to young to be CIA

Look him up

The Fiegie Cave was pilfered in 1961
not 1967
Batson has nothing connecting him to the C.I.A . yet Oren claimed he was C.I.A.
and that is in another link I can provide .

I lied ?

next link is my Dads statements made to chandler for the book 100 tons of Gold

Regardless of what some unnamed cowboy said about carved steps

read what my dad's description was .

 

[treasminder2]

link

and note that Dad does not say " Carved steps "

and when he gets to the intersecting tunnels
he states " These were all natural , nothing man made

Link

Arizona Superstition Mountain Tunnel Systems, Inner World, Hollow Earth, Burlington UFO and Paranormal Center, burlington wisconsin, arizona, apache, native american indians, secret underground tunnels, new mexico, white sands, caverns,

and note that here to we find Oren Swearingen writing to the author making claims my Dad was a liar about the 1300 steps

You will find that everywhere on the net
that my dads story was quoted ,, Oren pops his Tooth picking head in
and denounces my Dad

Strange Behavior for such a nice guy like Oren

 

[treasminder2]

and here again is Oren on yet another websitre preaching his fracts

note he says I know for a Fact

yeah right
Oren must have been hiding out in my Dad's Napsack

all these FACT tellers

where's their treasure I wonder

Quote Oren Swearingen
the Mental Giant

In reading your section on tunnels in various places, I came across
mention of tunnels in Victorio Peak--which is true---Because I have been
inside many of them-----but, unfortunately, none of them went very
far--------However, the main thing that caught my eye was your mention
of Hardscrabble Mountain and it's alleged tunnel system---------I say '
alleged' because the story is not true ! There is no cave with 1400
steps descending inside Hardscrabble ! I know this for a fact----it
makes a nice story ( fantastic and entirely fictitious ) It comes from
the supposed experience of Harvey Snow-----and it is a fabrication !!
In the first place, the cave is NOT in Hardscrabble ------In the second
place, Harvey did not know in which mountain it was located ! He had
NEVER been inside it ! I knew Harvey ( now deceased ) and he admitted
to me that he really did NOT know where it was---- I know the man who
does know, because I have been there with him---and nobody knows exactly
how many steps there are, because no-one is known to have gone all the
way to the bottom ! I know it is a small thing---but I just
wanted you to know that in the case of that particular mountain, there
is no fabulous tunnel system-------The actual cave is on a mountain so
small it has no name---and it is about 4 or 5 miles south of
Hardscrabble------My name is inside the cave ! ( along with others )
Just thought you ought to know-----
Dr. Oren Swearingen
Thank you. We will make the corrections on our site..Mary Sutherland

 

[treasminder2]

Interesting that Oren Lived in the shadow of guilt for the death of the Ultra Lite Pilot
to such an extant that he suffered denial for his complicity in that Death .

From my poem

" it's a World of people , looking for somebody else to blame "

Sad Man , to spend so much energy defaming a single man all over the Interwebs .

makes a person wonder what he agenda was
and how he rationalized it with complete conviction
to a point of Obsession

No Doubt Oren was Obsessed with Treasure
and yes
he sought out people all over the place
who mentioned seeing Treasure

Child like attributes from a grown professional is not all
that uncommon .

The correct statement " Not in Hardscrabble "

Darn tootin fig newton

Dad entered the army at 17 , WWII

he took test
Miltary Intelligence noticed him

and incorporated him into G2

Military Intelligence and not even out of his Teens

after the War
Dad Joined the Airforce

he was sent to Roswell to the 509th , the only Nuclear Bomb Squadron of the U.S.

Given Class 4 security status

at a highly secured base .

His traing as an operative in the intelligence community came into play
on these treasure venues

would he give direct information
to a Tooth Tickler about the locale of a Treasure Cavern ?

NOT hardly folks

Would he give such to an unknown novelist like Chandler to be published

same answer folks

trained in Obfuscation , Trained to suspect , trained to observe human nature

I can well state I have seen him use it , and Oren came out of the blue
no bona fides , and asking questions
of a Man trained to :::

Deny everything
admit nothing
and
cast counter aspersions
NO NEED TO KNOW IS POLICY .

Lies ?

why of course

did it cause an Ultra Lite Pilot death ?

Not Hardly , Stupid . careless , bravado perhaps
But what Pilot would not know the danger of updrafts and downdrafts in a Mountain Range /

First lesson in piloting

never attempt to climb up hill .

Obsessive compulsive < is that the term for Oren's dysfunction ?

Obvious it is he was Obsessed with treasure and my Dads story telling .

But why go to such an extent all across the web to denounce my Dad ?

sorry man
I see unstable mind set with Oren .

 

[treasminder2]

that's correct Mike

i can recall conversations from the past easily

a memory cannot not be destroyed once in , it can be blocked but not destroyed

brain damage can cause a problem with access

But heck yes I can recall talks with my Dad . easy enough to do .

heh heh

 

[treasminder2]

J. Frank Dobie , in the last chapter of his book : " Coronado's Children "

Wrote a very succinct to our experiences we shared with him about
seekers coming to us seeking for us to guide them to treasure

he recounted : Many people come to me , believing that I can help them solve the clues
to their chosen hunting sites ,

paraphrase here
on a few occasions
some would pester me constantly

I once took a map from a person , they wanted me to mark where the treasure was located ,,
I put a mark on the map
they grabbed it back , rolled it up , and drove off to never pester me again .

My Dad had the exact same situation , he was pestered by many

I as well , am pestered , and by many .

It comes with the territory and we accept that for the most part .

But , there are some that no matter what you do to sway them off your front porch , they just will
not leave you in Peace .

I have a story , a few actually, about pest ,

next
I'll write the story of one such pest ( Oren Swearingen ) That just would not leave my Father
in Peace .

It is revealing about the Agenda of Orens .

I never wrote this in a public venue before , nor in my books .

Time comes , when you just have to bare Closeted Skeletons , and let the bones fall where they may .

Next Post : " The Ruse "

 

[treasminder2]

I brought up in an earlier post , My Fathers Training in the Intelligence community .

This is an example of how he applied some of that training in his personal life experiences .

Claude , his close friend , confidant in treasure exploration , and a really positive personality ,
Had been introduced to Oren Swearingen through a Mutual Friend of Both his and my Dad .

Through Claude , Oren was introduced to the Infamous Harvey Snow ( My Dad )

Claude had brought his Pest and deposited him on Dad's front Porch .

Oren exuded great obsessive passion for Treasure , and that to Harvey was noted immediately .

Harvey entertained Oren with a few of the tales , and Oren requested a location for the
Infamous 1300 steps cavern .

Simple enough solution was to point him to Hradscrabble as he related to the Author Chandler , and Hope
he went away satisfied and leave Harvey in peace .

Some family matters were weighing on Harvey , He just buried his murdered Daughter ,
Had just received word of His Grandmother being burned to death in her home , and it was being investigated as
a Homicide , and ,,,

He had just reconnected with me after years of separation .

Harvey had no idea to what extant Oren was obsessed with this story of the Cavern , But it would
be but a short while , when he'd get the full force of this mans obsession laid back on his front porch .

Oren had persuaded a Young Man who was married to a sweet wife , they had two small children ,
to pilot an Ultra Lite Craft into the Mountains , to seek the Caverns entrance .

This is a Fools Folly of a sort that no man with two small children should unwisely attempt to endeavor .

Sad that decision of Oren's and this young man , but life happens , and as life happens , it runs to it's
final form ,,, death .

At times , Death happens to people when the Family needs them the most .

as the small children did , as his wife did .

After this tragedy occurred , Oren with Flames of hate upon his breath , returned to Harvey's Home
with the sad news , Livid at Harvey for the accident .

EDIT in some text here : at Orens Rage , Harvey simply turned his chin toward him and said

" Go see Claude for the location "

Harvey called Claude to tip him off that he was sending his pest back to him
and do something with the pest to get him off Dad's back for certain .

Unrealistic redirection of guilt ?

In whatever guise you wish to perceive it , do so , as I perceive it , yeah , exactly that .

Confronted with the Maniacal behavioral display of this obsessed treasure seeker , Harvey see's the need
to expell the man from his life forever .

86'd ?

Yeah well , Human Nature,,, you know ?

You can always rely upon a human to do human things in a very human way .

Some cases with some Human's , is denial of guilt through extension to others , so that a feeling of shared guilt
comes to them to comfort .

I was there with Dad ( Harvey ) just after the event , as he spoke of it , he related his intention
to send this Oren character , off his front porch , and back onto The front Porch
of the Man who deposited this pest on his .

I flipped a $20 Bill onto the side table next to the phone

" I'll foot the bill for the call , call Claude now , and cure this situation , you're agitated and
it's bothersome to me , so I'll pay the call , go ahead , give Claude a call "

Harvey called Claude , as I sat , I thought : " Ewwww this is just bound to be a goody "

and it was .

A study , to witness the working of a mind so blessed with deductive reasoning ,,, gawd what an experience .

The ruse

Claude asked : " what ? he's coming to see me ? why ?

Harvey : You dropped your Ca Ca on my front Porch , I'm sending it back to you , figure something ,
and make sure he doesn't return here again Claude .

( Later I would read through the letters Claude sent to Dad addressing this situation , funny is , Claude and Dad
referred to Oren as " The Toothpick " for he was a dentist " )

This is what was settled upon

Claude would Travel down from his Home in Soper Ok , he would take Oren to a cave well known by him
and Harvey as well ,,,

He would convince Oren That this Cave was the 1300 step cave , and that Dad had no idea where it was ,
to bother Dad Further would be ,,,, well , now it wouldn't be .

Per the statements made in this Forum by Claude's Son ( Gilariverkid ) you can read about the event
and the description he gives of the interior of the cave that Claude and he showed Oren ,

Clear enough ?

a small dificulty with a Pest ( Oren ) had been catapulted right into a Catastrophe , where a cure for that , must be applied .

This is Intel , this is what it is , it manufactures fake evidence
it displays theatrics
it is in love with it's machinations of inducing a false meme in the minds of people .

Follow the description Claude's Son gives on the cave that they took Oren to .

NO Steps

none , yet they convince Oren those have been backfilled , and are there .
He bites it and chews with delight the bait .

Per Gollums above post as he quotes : The Cowboy said : " Carved Steps "

heh heh

Note Harveys description : Sloping steps , nothing man made , these caverns are all natural .

Notes on the cavern and how dad first heard of it .

It was NOT Hiles , I suppose that is the Cowboy referred to when CARVED steps are recounted .

Harvey at the Library , came across a news paper article on Micro-phish ( Spelling on fish ? )

a story about a teen boy lost in a carvern for a few days , a description of the steps , some of the artifacts
seen by the teen , matched what Dad would later find in the cavern he visited .
Not everything Harvey saw in there , was mentioned in the article of the Teen's statements .

Roll forward a decade now

The Bates Brothers grew up just east of the San Andreas , the ranch covers some of the Lower foot hills .

Their Dad , in a fit , took all the savings out of the house and up into a Canyon
returning without it .

On his death bed , The boys asked where the money was hidden ,, The Old Boy replied : Wher only a crazy man would
hide it , and only a crazy man would look for it "

Note : This because The Old Man's wife and these two boys wanted to commit him for lunacy , and that triggered
him to take the money and hide it from them , for he believed they wanted to do this to him , so they could take the
money )

Good Idea I say ,,, heh heh .

To Dad , the Boys came , again , pest seeking help from " THE MAN " Ha !

The area fit for the Teen's Cavern , Harvey took on the task to investigate the area , and the Cavern the Bates
Boys had said that they believed is where the old turd had hid the money .

In the raconteur of the event , it was said Ranchers from the east side asked dad to locate
a cave , that a cowboy claimed he saw doc bring fully loaded pack mules down from , on Hardscrabble .

Ergo , the Cowboy that shot at the lion .

Well , that is another part of the tale where obfuscation comes into being

The Bates lived EAST not West of the range , but , why tell it and have them pestered , right ?
so set them in an area that they are NOT from .

This Folks , is Harvey Snow's 1300 step cave

it is up Bates Canyon

when you get to : Bat Ranch Spring ( formally known as Bates Ranch Spring )

Stand upslope south of the spring , look due north up the opposite ridge

You will note a Dike running up that ridge .

You may see the formation that the entrance is hidden by , but not the entrance .

You may question if the Old Turds Money was located by Harvey .

Not to my Knowledge .

 

[treasminder2]

and thus , Oren Swearingen was dissuaded from ever showing up on Harvey Snow's front Porch again .

Obviously , per Orens latest comments concerning the 1300 step red herring / false meme / clone cave / stage prop
it worked on him up to his passing .

Elaborate as it may seem , this was a very easy task to undertake and complete .

Create an Illusion , to feed the Delusion , a tool of Intel .

works well too .

 

[kanabite]

man Rog i hope i have not been a pest over the years, i try not to do that to folks , i really try . although it is tempting sometimes, to not ask folks questions that are uncomfortable . i have about zero interest in following some one else to" their spot ". i will admit to trying to connect the dots , but only as it applies to stuff i have questions about in my own areas of interest. there are folks who would do about anything for inside info . they should go home and practice IMO ...lol

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Judy, apparently that is where the money lies for treasure hunters. Incidentally, ya forgot my lil nickle plated .25 - gotta keep the gals in line ya know..