Superstition People, Places, & Things.

[deducer]

deducer i didnt find it hal did, i just reposted for the Q i asked

Whoops, missed the previous post on my iphone.

Good work, Hal.

 

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[deducer]

Looks like a canvas tool bag.
I am still trying to sift thru the stone cross discovery story. One report says they were found at Tortilla Flat, another on Tortilla Mt. Anyone know the true story and what ultimately became of the crosses and Bilbrey after his release?

Two very interesting questions that remain unsettled. An excerpt from the Bilbrey tapes as described by Roger:

While searching the SW side of Tortilla Mtn, he (Bilbrey) found several “cross’s” on the face of a cliff face. He dug under one and found a shaft that he cleared to its bottom at 20 feet and found a quartz vein but it was of no value. He dug at another “cross” and found the Stone Crosses in loose gravel. The big/fat one was found first and was lying face down and broken. The other cross was found next to it. Mike then filed his claims starting in the late 1970’s, which surrounded the location where the crosses were found. He noted on Arizona Mining Claim #189723 that there was a “large cross above the mine in a northeast direction”. When that area didn’t yield anything, he began to explore the rest of Tortilla Mtn

Nobody knows what has happened to the Stone Crosses, but the rumor is that they ended up with Ed Farr. Sometimes in 2009 there was a serious attempt at tracking down Farr in Los Angeles where he was said to live. Nothing ever came of it, as far as I know.

 

[Hal Croves]

Whoops, missed the previous post on my iphone.

Good work, Hal.

I am reading back and was just thinking the same thing about you.

"Quite unlikely, though, that a group of four people, two with lucrative jobs, should band and form a conspiracy to sell two or more fabricated Stone Crosses, with misspelled Spanish.

Why would Bilbrey then move from San Diego to be closer to the Superstitions (he ended up in Casa Grande) just to perpetuate a hoax?

And furthermore how did they know to craft the crosses with asymmetrical arms, when we never see the back of the upper trail stone in the 1964 Life Magazine article which Bilbrey reportedly consulted before setting out on his journey?

And why should Bilbrey and Farr then pretend to have internal strife or dispute resulting in the breakup of the group and the locking up of the Stone Crosses in a vault, never to be seen again? In what way does this enhance or make more valuable, the "selling" point of the hoax or the Stone Crosses?

These are facts that Joe and others chose to ignore.

Possessing a great deal of information does not make you an expert in anything without the faculty to remain objective, to avoid making judgment or forcing facts to fit a preconceived theory. More important, I think, is the willingness to be flexible in the face of new evidence."

I recently asked about Bilbrey believing that he had passed and was told to produce a death certificate. I have not been able to find one.

 

[deducer]

I recently asked about Bilbrey believing that he had passed and was told to produce a death certificate. I have not been able to find one.

I tracked Bilbrey down to this decrepit trailer in Casa Grande by looking through the property tax registration database and was told that he had been moved to a nursing care facility in another part of CG, where he, and subsequently his wife, passed away. I didn't have time to track down a death certificate as I had too many other things on my itinerary, but perhaps you could do that? His full name is Michael Kent Bilbrey.

 

[Hal Croves]

I tracked Bilbrey down to this decrepit trailer in Casa Grande by looking through the property tax registration database and was told that he had been moved to a nursing care facility in another part of CG, where he, and subsequently his wife, passed away. I didn't have time to track down a death certificate as I had too many other things on my itinerary, but perhaps you could do that? His full name is Michael Kent Bilbrey.

View attachment 1288989

I don't think that we will find one on Bilbrey.

View attachment 1288997

 

[cw0909]

[TABLE="class: smallfont, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: spaceunder"]
[TD="class: tdRightColumn"]Pinal County Recorder no death cert , but just searching his name Bilbrey Michael
pulls up 17 docs, they have an online pdf viewer just click it

Document Search - Pinal County
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[cw0909]

i thought the pg would come up with the search guess not
run his name the doc links will come up

 

[Azquester]

Hal, Deducer,

I find it hard to believe they at 65-66 years old have both passed on. Cheryl Bilbrey was his wife and they have a daugther I believe named Melina Ho. The trailer I see from GE looks different than the one posted. Was that trailer on La Cholla?

Anyone look into ARCC Mining where he worked? Or was that his mining company? He may have some patiented claim in the Sups near TF.

 

[cw0909]

Hal, Deducer,

I find it hard to believe they at 65-66 years old have both passed on. Cheryl Bilbrey was his wife and they have a daugther I believe named Melina Ho. The trailer I see from GE looks different than the one posted. Was that trailer on La Cholla?

Anyone look into ARCC Mining where he worked? Or was that his mining company? He may have some patiented claim in the Sups near TF.

bill people die in their 60s all the time,cancer,Alzheimers, lung disorders/cancer
but if they passed away it wasnt in pinal county according to the records

 

[Azquester]

I read all the docs related. I think the could be still kicking. Maybe just moved. Im calling the number.

 

[Azquester]

Sometimes people just don't want to be found for whatever reasons.

View attachment 1289012

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, Deducer,

I find it hard to believe they at 65-66 years old have both passed on. Cheryl Bilbrey was his wife and they have a daugther I believe named Melina Ho. The trailer I see from GE looks different than the one posted. Was that trailer on La Cholla?

Anyone look into ARCC Mining where he worked? Or was that his mining company? He may have some patiented claim in the Sups near TF.

I think that you are correct Bill.
Bilbrey and his story are fascinating and I would jump at the chance to hear to him speak about his time in the range.
If Bilbrey actually did discover the stone crosses on Tortilla, if they are old, how could Travis have known about them (their size and scale) when carving the stone maps?

If he carved the crosses, exactly when and where did Bilbrey have access to the stone maps and time to measure or to trace them? Should be a record.
Incredible if we could get him to retell the story.

 

[Weaversneedle]

bill people die in their 60s all the time,cancer,Alzheimers, lung disorders/cancer
but if they passed away it wasnt in pinal county according to the records

Arizona doesn't put death certificates online, you have to go the county recorders office and check in person

 

[deducer]

Bill and Hal,

If a judgement of renewal was filed as late as 10/29/12, then Bilbrey was definitely alive up to that point.

Although I was told by someone at the residence I visited that Bilbrey had passed on, I was unable to independently verify it.

It may be that he is quite evasive, not because of the Stone Crosses but because of this outstanding judgment, that was rendered upon him.

If anyone does find that he is currently alive as well as where he lives, feel free to pass the info via PM, but please think before you post that information in a public forum.

 

[Hal Croves]

Arizona doesn't put death certificates online, you have to go the county recorders office and check in person

Not exactly. There are a range of vital statistics available online for AZ.
They are defined on the landing page.


genealogy.az.gov-Arizona Genealogy Birth and Death Certificates

 

[Hal Croves]

Bill and Hal,

If a judgement of renewal was filed as late as 10/29/12, then Bilbrey was definitely alive up to that point.

Although I was told by someone at the residence I visited that Bilbrey had passed on, I was unable to independently verify it.

It may be that he is quite evasive, not because of the Stone Crosses but because of this outstanding judgment, that was rendered upon him.

If anyone does find that he is currently alive as well as where he lives, feel free to pass the info via PM, but please think before you post that information in a public forum.

I don't post address.

 

[Weaversneedle]

Not exactly. There are a range of vital statistics available online for AZ.
They are defined on the landing page.


genealogy.az.gov-Arizona Genealogy Birth and Death Certificates

Good luck trying to find death certificates online, they will let you search but rarely will you come up with what you seek. Due to massive identify theft in Arizona you usually have to go down in person and if you want a copy you have to prove you are a close relative

 

[Hal Croves]

Good luck trying to find death certificates online, they will let you search but rarely will you come up with what you seek. Due to massive identify theft in Arizona you usually have to go down in person and if you want a copy you have to prove you are a close relative

Luck has little to do with it.
Here is exactly what can be found.
BIRTHS that occurred at least 75 years ago
DEATHS that occurred at least 50 years ago

 

[Azquester]

Good luck trying to find death certificates online, they will let you search but rarely will you come up with what you seek. Due to massive identify theft in Arizona you usually have to go down in person and if you want a copy you have to prove you are a close relative

Or a Private Dick.

He might be a bit hostile if approached the wrong way. Maybe wear a tee shirt with the stone maps silk screened on the front while sporting a large Jesuit silver cross with dark blue Bisbee Azurite?



Thanks to all here for their research on this he may have something to say about TT. I won't post any more addresses.

 

[cactusjumper]

I am reading back and was just thinking the same thing about you.

"Quite unlikely, though, that a group of four people, two with lucrative jobs, should band and form a conspiracy to sell two or more fabricated Stone Crosses, with misspelled Spanish.

Why would Bilbrey then move from San Diego to be closer to the Superstitions (he ended up in Casa Grande) just to perpetuate a hoax?

And furthermore how did they know to craft the crosses with asymmetrical arms, when we never see the back of the upper trail stone in the 1964 Life Magazine article which Bilbrey reportedly consulted before setting out on his journey?

And why should Bilbrey and Farr then pretend to have internal strife or dispute resulting in the breakup of the group and the locking up of the Stone Crosses in a vault, never to be seen again? In what way does this enhance or make more valuable, the "selling" point of the hoax or the Stone Crosses?

These are facts that Joe and others chose to ignore.

Possessing a great deal of information does not make you an expert in anything without the faculty to remain objective, to avoid making judgment or forcing facts to fit a preconceived theory. More important, I think, is the willingness to be flexible in the face of new evidence."

I recently asked about Bilbrey believing that he had passed and was told to produce a death certificate. I have not been able to find one.

Hal,

I do not "choose to ignore" any of the facts concerning Mr. Bilbrey. To put it as simply as I can, I find other evidence about the man more compelling. Others are welcome to consider his story however they wish.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo