Swamp Gold

[Bigcypresshunter]

-- the cattle themselves however had to be bought and paid for in gold -- that is what the gold shipment was for to be used to buy the beef that was to be shipped north from the local area florida cattlemen --many of whom would not take confederate script or "paper money" --- thus the money was in fact not for "payroll" at all but rather for payment of the beef to be shipped.--

I don't reckon you care to cite some sources for "your" version...do ya?

I think he is just speculating, Jim. A plausible scenario.

 

[ivan salis]

the rail head in baldwin is only about 20 miles from my home of callahan, fla --- it was a transhipment point for northward bound confederate cattle during the war ( until it was finally raided and destroyed by union forces ) this is very well known "local history" in my part of the country where I live---- many of the local people who lived around here have many personal family history stories related to this type of activity during the civil war -- as a member of the west nassau historical assn -- I often get to meet these people and record and hear their "family" histories. -- there are many fine details of events that have never made in into any "main line" history book , but are written down in these family ledgers. many good and juicy tid bits for a treasure hunter who's always thinking where to get information --- since information is the key to finding lost stuff in many cases. --- Ivan

look at the reenactors site above read carefully -- the story about the "pretend" cattle drover "tree" that his is talking about is loosely based on very real people and actual events that did happen -- some of them very nearby locally in my area actually only 20 miles from my home (the ripping up of the rails & sacking and burning of the town of baldwin -- a important confederate rail road transhipment point )--- the story of the rich rancher is in fact true -- note that the rich rancher did not want to sell to the rebels but was selling to the cubans instead -- then the south forced him to sell to them and even in effect drafted him ---- often the rich ranchers insisted on gold in payment for their cattle ---

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

According to Tom Vance Lost Treasure Oct. 2003, in 1865 a half of a ton of gold was transported from Kentucky to Fort Meade. He doesnt say what it was for. (cattle would be a good guess). "News of the advancing Union troops forced the Confederates into the Everglades to avoid capture" I think Fort Meade was burnt down by Union forces in 1864. Dates may be wrong.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

"In September of 1944, a Florida State Game Officer (name witheld by me) led a small party into the Everglades and located what they feel that may have been the last campsite of the Confederates who buried the missing gold bullion. The old campsite was overgrown with brush, but the group still found Confederate relics." ..."rumors still persist"... Tom Vance.


(sent to me by Floyd Mann)

 

[ivan salis]

attacking enemy supply base to disrupt his supply lines makes good sense during war -- fort meade was a confederate "gathering spot" where cattle herds were drove to to be sold* to the confederate army --and then sent up to the confederate army in northbound cattle drives -- thus it would be a good target for union troops to raid for two reasons #1 gaining them supplies (meat for the union troops to eat ) as well as #2 disrupting the souths supplies to it troops up north. --- Ivan

* remember that the local florida cattlemen like most other folks did not want "paper money" or script but rather gold or at least silver in exchange for their cattle. that way no matter how the war turned out they would be ok -- paper money was highly unpopular during the war --be it confederate or yankee -- folks wanted "real money" gold or silver --that way no matter who won they would be ok money wize.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Sometime in the 1980's I was talking with a National Park Ranger who told me a "very well known treasure hunter" has asked permission to search and dig for lost Confederate gold within the Big Cypress Nat. Preserve boundaries, and was promptly denied.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

attacking enemy supply base to disrupt his supply lines makes good sense during war -- fort meade was a confederate "gathering spot" where cattle herds were drove to to be sold* to the confederate army --and then sent up to the confederate army in northbound cattle drives -- thus it would be a good target for union troops to raid for two reasons #1 gaining them supplies (meat for the union troops to eat ) as well as #2 disrupting the souths supplies to it troops up north. --- Ivan

* remember that the local florida cattlemen like most other folks did not want "paper money" or script but rather gold or at least silver in exchange for their cattle. that way no matter how the war turned out they would be ok -- paper money was highly unpopular during the war --be it confederate or yankee -- folks wanted "real money" gold or silver --that way no matter who won they would be ok money wize.

In this legend were a combination of gold and paper currency.

 

[ivan salis]

confederate paper money was "cheap" to print and being unwanted by the vast majority of folks not doubt that there was some of it "hanging" around -- the paper money would have long ago rotted away most likely -- so its the gold you would still be after today --- I find the story entirely believible --- gold used to buy beef with sent to ft meade -- union forces coming --- fort meade abandoned ---confederate paymaster takes money using a small detail hides the money in the swamp ---they are later caught --- highly believible and very possible to be a true story.

 

[Salvor6]

You are right Ivan. In 1864 a shipment of cattle arrived up the Hillsboro River (Tampa) and anchored near Lowry Park. Union forces were tipped off and troops marched on a trail along the banks of the river towing a cannon. Opposite the ship, the Scottish Chief, they opened fire and the Chief caught fire, burned and sank. Thirteen Confederate soldiers were killed and an unknown sum of gold coins were confiscated. This account came from The Record of the Rebellion published by the U.S. Congress. The remains of the Scottish Chief are still there in the Hillsboro River and a buddy of mine recovered the hawespipe.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

They were blockade runners and the Confederates may have needed cotton as well as beef. Or they sold it for money. Either way, it had to be paid for.
What part of this legend do you find the most unbelievable, Jim. The gold part?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

SWR, YER A KILL JOY HEHEHEEHEH

Don Jose de la Mancha

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

SWR, YER A KILL JOY HEHEHEEHEH

Don Jose de la Mancha

Kill´-joy`
n. 1. One who causes gloom or grief; a dispiriting person; a spoilsport.


Yeh, you're a real killjoy!

 

[ivan salis]

the steamer scottish chief and the sloop kate had most likely brought in the beef in bound from cuba for the "cattle drive to the north"-- and they were most likely loading cotton for their outbound trips --- cotton was the souths "major" cash crop or money maker-- it was to be taken to england and sold -- once in england the cotton was sold by the blockade runners (it fetched a very high price there paid for in gold ) -- depending on orders they would then buy english trade goods needed in the south (buttons, cloth, arms ,meds ,ect. for return to the states and /or pick up beef and trade goods in cuba on the return voyage --the gold coins found may have been left over money from the prior cargo run that were being held by the ships captains (or bonus money paid to the capts for a successful voyage (normally paid in gold since confederate script was totally useless overseas ---also many capts bought and sold stuff privately "on the side" making vast sums of money in the process) the gold coins that were reportly taken according the the rebel records was most likey was taken when the union troops boarded the vessel and were privately "pocketed" by the raiders when they boarded them to burn them ---its high unlikely that the money would have been "offically reported" if so it would have to be turned over to the big wigs who did not risk their lives in finding it --- thus the men that found it kept their mouths shut and kept the money for themselves -- thus there is nothing is said of it in the union report -- however the confederates knew of the loss of the money and thus recorded it in their records --- that neatly & logically explains things fairly well --- these historical events occured on Oct 16,1863 -- and there are varying accounts due to who was there and what side they were on --each side would know its own sides tale of the events best from "their point of veiw" --- thus by looking at both sets of records (union and confederate) a more complete picture of the events as they actually happened might be understood.----- this explains the beef -- the cotton --- and the gold --- all very neatly and logically --- Ivan "the joy restorer"

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I agree with this scenario except the cattle from Cuba part. I dont think they would buy cattle from Cuba then bring it right back to where it came from (Florida). Cattle was originally loaded and shipped north from Tampa/Punta Gorda until the blockade stiffened, then they decided to run it north in cattle drives.
But, beef/cotton makes no difference to me. They had to have money (gold) onboard to buy the beef/cotton whatever. Would you sell youre cotton to the Confederacy without payment if you were a farmer?

 

[Bridge End Farm]

well if it is in the everglades you can hang up digging for it, They wil toss you under the jail not just in it. lol. THere is a legend of a war payroll stashed west of Ocala too, but if it where I think it is that area is on private land and the owners have told me "NO" more than once.

I am postive that florida has many treasures on land that have not been discoveried and under a hotel, home, highway, etc. best part of findin at timesis the search

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

well if it is in the everglades you can hang up digging for it, They wil toss you under the jail not just in it. lol.

only if its buried within National Park boundaries.

Last week I accidentally came across a very interesting story about a Civil War Everglades cache find in 1958 by some hunters. I spoke with the man's son again today. I will share the story later; I want to know what y'all think about it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Near the end of the Civil War, a Confederate paymaster being pursued by Union troops buried a million-dollar payroll in gold and paper currency. Records reveal he wrote: "Chased by the enemy, we buried our payroll at a point in the Everglades at a junction of two creeks, where the land rises like a camel's back. The money is buried in the west hump of the rise." He was captured, but the $200,000 in gold and paper money was never found.

OK heres the story. I happen to be talking about hunting in the Everglades with my friends mechanic, and he told me an interesting discovery made by his father back in 1958. His father, stlill alive and well, was 12 years old at the time. Much of the Everglades was unexplored at the time and hunters were building hunting camps on the higher ground. His family owned a well drilling company and they wanted a deep well for the camp. They started drilling and hit something solid, not too deep (less than 10 feet). The pipe soon became clogged. They hit the pipe with hammers and was surprised to see what was being sucked up. IT WAS PENNEYS! 1861 pennies were being sucked out of the ground! They kept pumping until they filled two galvanized buckets full of these pennies. He said they were not worn and appeared to be straight from the mint. He believes they were Indian Heads and all dated 1861. Since no one lived in the Glades at the time but Indians, they assumed it was a payroll stolen by the Indians at the end of the Third Seminole War and buried on this old Indian mound.

Now I thought this very interesting. The Seminole War ended in 1858. I would have to think this was Civil War related. I need some help here. What would 1861 pennies be doing buried in the Everglades? Could this be related to my lost $200,000 Confederate payroll? Did the Confederates use Indian Head pennies? Could he have mistaken these coins as Indian Heads? Are pennies commonly carried in payrolls? Being 12 yrs old at the time his father witnessed this event, he could be mistaken about the details, but there is no doubt in my mind that the story is true. He didnt say they found any gold, but they werent looking either. They only unclogged the pipe to drill a well. He even told me the approximate location, and it fits the legend, but would not be able to find it easily. I know one thing, there is a metal galvanized pipe in the ground at the exact location, if I can locate the old camp.

Any comments? I especially want to know if pennies are carried in payrolls.

 

[ivan salis]

yes indeed USA copper cents were used as money in both the south and north --- all "metal" money was scarce in the war due to hoarding by folks nervious about the war (paper money was devalued greatly and steadily lost value during the war thus it was very unpopular in both the north and south-- in the south any form of "real" money was better than paper money --- the reason "union" coinage was accepted in the south was the south "idea" of winning the war was to just get free of the north---- not to destroy it thus after the war when things would have returned to "normal" --the yankee coins would still have value and as metal ---copper --silver--gold they had a metal "base" value due to the metals worth)-- southern folks figgered they would need money and lots of it to buy stuff ----as the cost of everyday items went thru the roof -- bacon went from 1.25 for a 10 lb slab in 1860--- to 10.00 in 1863 for the same amount nearly 10 X the "pre war" cost --- this was the normal wartime mark up and was common --- other scarce "imported" items were even more costly . --- copper / bronze type small change (cents) were very scarce ( they were often melted to make cannon barrels and used for their metal content )---- often stores made tokens often of lead or zinc -- and issued them as "change" ---- sounds to me --like your on the "right track" --- now be very careful from now on .

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

So it could be USA copper Indian Head cents. Here is a pic of an 1861 Confederate Cent COPY from eBay. Is this an Indian? This could be described as an Indian Head by someone not familiar with coins, I would imagine. Maybe they found these.
He told me they sunk the pipe for the well and never bothered to dig for any remaining coins.
I will talk with him again. His father lives out of town. Maybe I will send him this pic to jog his memory.

 

[Bridge End Farm]

BigCypress

I have read that story before somewhere, it could quite well be true. Good luck with your search and hopefully discovery