Tell me about the minerals

[Clay Diggins]

This is for all the dedicated researchers out there. Tell me about the mineralization in this area.

Your challenge, should you choose to play, is to describe to us what minerals worth mining are where in this map area. I'm hoping those who use "satellite" photos (actually aerial photos from a low flying plane) and other forms of "remote sensing" will put their two cents in, I'd like to hear your results and reasoning.

Here's your map link.

I know this area like the back of my hand so if you think you can use the MRDS or regular geology mapping I'll give you a heads up - they are wrong.

This is a well known and heavily mined area. There are several mineral patents for different mineral deposits in this rough cube just four miles on a side. You might be able to figure out what's going on here from those patents or any other method you like. Just please tell us what research methods you used.

This is not a trick or an invitation for some members to take threads off track. Just make your best guess and put it out there. This is not a contest. There are no winners or losers just folks willing to learn from others - myself included.

Heavy Pans

 

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[Nitric]

Thank you!!! If anything else I'm learning a lot. I know very little about geology. It gets a little overwhelming just jumping in. Then I got stuck on the salt sodium Idea and couldn't get it out of my mind.

The beryl, I get some idea, we went to a mine in Lagrange Ga, and dug Beryl, black tourmaline, rose quartz, star quartz and others all from one small mine. We found a little aqua marine digging in an old dump pile. and this area where I live was known for corundum mines not to far a way. I also believe there were mines that are not listed or documented. But, I'm way off topic....

what I'm getting at is that I'm trying to put some kind of visual to something that I have seen.

Thanks Clay! I was really lost and just going with whatever, hoping to to be able to connect something. I couldn't get the salt deposits out of my mind. And kept thinking salt!

Either way this is fun!

 

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[Nitric]

Bump....

Had to find and bring this back to the top so I could find it easier...

 

[StreamlineGold]

Clay - I know the area of San Domingo you are talking about but I also read the overburden was 20-30ft deep in that area. One wash I never located in sure u know which one I'm talking about I would really like to pinpoint. I will send you a msg

 

[Clay Diggins]

Clay - I know the area of San Domingo you are talking about but I also read the overburden was 20-30ft deep in that area. One wash I never located in sure u know which one I'm talking about I would really like to pinpoint. I will send you a msg

The deepest overburden on the Little San Domingo wash is 16 foot right at the mouth on the Hassayampa river. The wash was sample drilled along it's length in 1962. Gold values are more than double west of the highway.

Old Woman has been hit pretty hard over the years but it still has surprises. It's not where most people assume it is.

I'll have more on that area soon.

Heavy Pans

 

[hawkeye39]

Ah yes, the Old Woman wash. I am a relative newcomer to the area of interest and have speculated many times on the location of the Old Woman based on the old descriptions of activities in San Domingo area. That and the somewhat mysterious location (at least to me) of the old Lotowana workings. I will be looking forward to "more".

 

[Clay Diggins]

Ah yes, the Old Woman wash. I am a relative newcomer to the area of interest and have speculated many times on the location of the Old Woman based on the old descriptions of activities in San Domingo area. That and the somewhat mysterious location (at least to me) of the old Lotowana workings. I will be looking forward to "more".

The Lotawana was not a single location. A guy by the name of S.E. Sanger made a bunch of claims by the name "Wana" in 1909. Those became locally known as the "Lot of Wanas" claims so Sanger made more claims called the Lotawana 1, Lotawana 2 etc. There were others known as the Golden Goose, Golden egg etc. Those were the first Lotawanas and the ones that started the legends. Very productive claims. A bit of research at the Maricopa County Recorder's office will show you where those were located. Not where the local legends tell you but I gave a hint in this thread as to their true location.

Later, in 1961, United Placer Industries had a dryland dredge built to mine some big acreage in the San Domingo district. That custom made dredge was named the "Geraldine" after the president of United Placer Industries Geraldine Freund. United Placer Industries had about 25,000 acres of claims in that region.

Much ado was made in the press about how the new Geraldine dredge was going to mine the Lotawana placers. It was good publicity because the Lotawana claims were famous for their past productivity. The actual mining was done near the Little San Domingo wash pretty far from the original Lotawanas. You can still see the effects of that huge dredge today. Several of the "hills" in that area are actually very large tailing piles.

Heavy Pans

 

[Nitric]

Ok I'm trying to study some of this stuff...I ran into two problems...Kind of don't want to admit it...But hey? How else am I going to learn!

One minor problem is the standing on my head! To read that claim map!! seriously though! One problem I'm having is..If I wanted to match that claim map up with the ground? What numbers on that claim map, would give me locations? Say..on google earth or the map posted at the beginning from Land Matters? There are so many "resources" I don't know how to use yet.

I don't expect anyone to explain it all here...Just give me a direction, or subject...I'm kind of dumb to all of this......So, I'm trying to grab a little here and there...

The north west side of the wash, about center of map, about a a half inch down from the top, inch to the left of Land Matters... of your map looks interesting. There is a dark circle with what looks like white out crops or lighter material around the circumference(if that make any sense at all!)...Just looks odd for the area..Whether man made or not...I would have to check that out if I was there.. I tried to get a screen shot and post it here, but I can't figure out how to do that yet. This computer and I are fighting lately! Could that have been a thermal vent(?) Or a.........Dike(?) Something that was extruded and pushed straight up...Like was mentioned in the swarm dikes link...

 

[kcm]

You can do a web search for, "How to read a topo map" and you'll get LOTS of links to good information. As I don't know what questions you have, I can't be of much more help. Likewise, how can you have a question about some parts that you don't even know about yet?

Another web search that would be quite valuable to go along with this is, "How to read map coordinates". Nat Geo has a basic map & GPS skills document in .pdf format at:
http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/downloads/Map_Skills_Booklet.pdf

Another good map-reading site is:
Compass - how to use one

 

[Nitric]

You can do a web search for, "How to read a topo map" and you'll get LOTS of links to good information. As I don't know what questions you have, I can't be of much more help. Likewise, how can you have a question about some parts that you don't even know about yet?

Another web search that would be quite valuable to go along with this is, "How to read map coordinates". Nat Geo has a basic map & GPS skills document in .pdf format at:
http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/downloads/Map_Skills_Booklet.pdf

Another good map-reading site is:
Compass - how to use one

Thank you!! KCM....I was having a moment last night! Think I just needed some Manpons! seemed like whatever I tried to do I was running into walls...I had the motivation! Just couldn't get the brain and computer to work together! There is so much I want to learn and know...And just kind of wandering....

I have to learn how to read some of these maps...Then be able to get them to overlay or work together...I'll study your links later today..Thanks again!!

 

[russau]

Thank you!! KCM....I was having a moment last night! Think I just needed some Manpons! seemed like whatever I tried to do I was running into walls...I had the motivation! Just couldn't get the brain and computer to work together! There is so much I want to learn and know...And just kind of wandering....

I have to learn how to read some of these maps...Then be able to get them to overlay or work together...I'll study your links later today..Thanks again!!

Jason when the computer starts acting up , I always just yell at it real loud and it starts doing what I want it to do ! it works for me MOST of the time!

 

[Craigwac]

Just to the South of the map area was the mill for the Vulture mine. The mill was built by James Seymour who had purchased the "worked out" Vulture mine in 1878. The mill had 40 stamps and the ore was hauled by muletrain about 12 miles over rough terrain to this spot on the Hassayampa river. By any standards a 40 stamp mill was a big operation that required a lot of labor and water. The mill created a town of it's own.

The millsite town was called Seymore. Seymore had about 230 residents, a store, two saloons, a hotel, a restaurant, butcher, barber and feed yard. It was a major stop on the stagecoach line. The water source for the town and mill was the Hassayampa sink a few miles upriver which today is a nature preserve. You can see the "sink" just north of the initial map view. The Hassaympa sink is still a beautiful lush green area on a normally dry desert river.

During those years the town of Vulture, along with Jerome, Bisbee and Prescott were the centers of commerce in the Arizona Territory. Seymore was destined to become a major town in Arizona but for one thing. In 1890 it was wiped off the face of the earth in one of the greatest disasters in Southwest history.

The Hassayampa river, along it's course from the high Bradshaw mountains, passes through some of the richest gold fields in the southwest. On the upper end more than 90 miles upstream from Seymore placer mining was big business in the mountains. In 1888 a large dam was constructed in Walnut Grove to provide water for the hydraulic and placer operations in that area of the Bradshaw mountains.

View attachment 1277806

Almost exactly 126 years ago on February 22, 1890 after a lot of rain the Walnut Grove dam broke and sent a 100 foot high wall of water rushing down the Hassayampa river. At least 120 people were killed along the river that night, mostly miners. By the time the flood reached Wickenburg 70 miles down river the wall of water was still 40 foot high. That night Seymore was obliterated along with many other small mining communities along the river.

Today the Seymore town site has no roads leading to it. It's a very difficult place to find. All that is left is the concrete pad where the incoming gold ore from the Vulture mine was stored for processing at the mill. The night of the flood there were more than 20 tons of that gold ore stacked on the pad, all was washed away downstream.

Seymore, Smiths Mill, Allah and many more mining towns, all near the map area, are no more but their history holds valuable information for the modern prospector researching potential rich areas. Although Seymore and the other places already mentioned in this thread provide good information the mapped area I offered has even greater treasures.

It's still out there and I'm offering a pointy finger for those willing to do the research.

Heavy Pans

That was the flood which wiped out Jacob Waltz's (the Lost Dutchman) farm, right? And ultimately caused his death, I think. Those little rivers around Phoenix look like nothing, until the summer monsoons come and - as you said - a huge wall of water comes rushing down that can and will destroy anything in it's path. Suddenly you realize why there are all those silly looking 30' tall bridges over what appear to be dry washes.

Given the massive size of the gold deposit at the Vulture mine, and the Hassayampa's location next to it, I would expect it to have good placer gold.

About 10 years ago, I wandered around the Vulture for a day. Well worth the few dollars they charge for a self-guided tour. Bring a camera! But at that time (before gold prices peaked), the owner was trying to sell the mine. Mining there was still banned from the WWII era government halt, and so the price was ridiculously low for such a huge mine with so much left in it. Seems like he was asking $4M at the time. I'm hoping he got a much better price, since the guy (can't remember his name) was just an ultra cool dude. After everyone else left for the day, he gave me a ride around in his pickup and gave me an impromptu personal tour. I was taking photos, and he said if I ever wanted to come out and photograph it outside of the normal visiting hours just give him a call.

Never did get to go back, though

 

[flashover1969]

Henry Wickenburg had an apple orchard/farm that was wiped out by this flood. Many others had homes wiped out and one lady claimed that she had $7000 in gold coins in her house that the river took. There is also supposedly a safe (contained gold nuggets, money, etc) from a saloon not far from below the damn that is somewhere buried under all of the muck.
Does anyone know if the town of Seymore was named after the blacksmith Henry Seymore? This fellow worked as a blacksmith in Gillett, AZ and would rob stagecoaches coming into town. Before the stage could even make it back into town after being robbed, Seymore would be back in his shop working. lol

 

[Clay Diggins]

Henry Wickenburg had an apple orchard/farm that was wiped out by this flood. Many others had homes wiped out and one lady claimed that she had $7000 in gold coins in her house that the river took. There is also supposedly a safe (contained gold nuggets, money, etc) from a saloon not far from below the damn that is somewhere buried under all of the muck.
Does anyone know if the town of Seymore was named after the blacksmith Henry Seymore? This fellow worked as a blacksmith in Gillett, AZ and would rob stagecoaches coming into town. Before the stage could even make it back into town after being robbed, Seymore would be back in his shop working. lol

Yeah it wasn't Jacob Walz that lost his farm but Henry Wickenburg did as well as many other farms. The flood killed at least 62 people.

There was a lost safe but who knows if it was ever found or if there was anything in it. If I had found the safe I wouldn't be bragging about it in public.

The Vulture mine is not in the Hassayampa drainage so there is zero chance you will find gold from the Vulture in the river. The Vulture mine was purchased and is operating again. Occasionally there are tours on Saturdays but the gates are locked to the public and the site is being mined and is guarded. It's a great place to poke around.

The Vulture mine was shut down briefly when the 1942 war order was posted but they appealed and won and the mine was reopened shortly afterwards and did operate during WWII.

Seymore had nothing to do with the stagecoach robbing blacksmith from Gillette. The Blacksmith's name was spelled Seymour (not Seymor) and the builder of the 40 stamp mill at Seymore was well known and obviously wealthy. I'll write more about that Seymore another time.

Heavy Pans

 

[SandomingoJim]

Clay Diggins

Looking forward to any additional info that you have on "Old Woman Gulch" I been detecting and dry washing the San Domingo area for many years and that place still intrigues me with its history and nice gold that it yields. Tailing piles everywhere, and some old ones too. Jim

 

[Clay Diggins]

Welcome to the forum Jim!

Old Woman wash is in a difficult to reach area, probably North of where you think it is and definitely North of the big highway. Other than that I won't be sharing any more hints but this - Bill knows where it is and he has worked it to his profit but he probably didn't know it was Old Woman when he was there.

Heavy Pans

 

[SandomingoJim]

I appreciate the reply Clay. I may have been there myself without even knowing it. I used an old Honda trail bike and have been exploring all over that area. With that area being in Bill's backyard he has probably spent much time there. He definitely has a nose for gold.
Did you ever know old Tom Mc... He and his wife lived in a little house just the other side of Ox Wash. I think he burnt his place down after his wife passed in about 1990. The years are getting fuzzy with me now.

 

[hawkeye39]

Read an article today re arsenal mining for cobalt in the Congo. Didn't realize cobalt was used in lithium ion batteries. The cathode in these batteries is lithium cobalt oxide. The anode is graphite. Those minerals are in demand and valuable.

A little excerpt regarding the mineralogy of the Congo Cu-Co (copper-cobalt) deposits:

"The sediment-hosted stratiform Cu–Co mineralization of the Luiswishi and Kamoto deposits in the Katangan Copperbelt is hosted by the Neoproterozoic Mines Subgroup. Two main hypogene Cu–Co sulfide mineralization stages and associated gangue minerals (dolomite and quartz) are distinguished. The first is an early diagenetic, typical stratiform mineralization with fine-grained minerals, whereas the second is a multistage syn-orogenic stratiform to stratabound mineralization with coarse-grained minerals. For both stages, the main hypogene Cu–Co sulfide minerals are chalcopyrite, bornite, carrollite, and chalcocite. These minerals are in many places replaced by supergene sulfides (e.g., digenite and covellite), especially near the surface, and are completely oxidized in the weathered superficial zone and in surface outcrops, with malachite, heterogenite, chrysocolla, and azurite as the main oxidation products."

The question is, can we relate this to our subject area? Most of the above minerals are most likely present in our target area.

 

[Clay Diggins]

It's sometimes interesting and frustrating to know a lot about the behind the scenes maneuvering that goes on in the mining business.

The area in question has been mostly under the claims of one man. This was an odd and somewhat amusing situation because the man attempted to build a mining empire on the back of a few lode claims, a whole bunch of placer claims, and a bunch of shiny new custom placer mining equipment. Odd combination for any area. Also interesting how this was done by selling shares in a mining business that didn't actually mine. Fully permitted, full of pretty equipment but no real plan, assessment of resources or any obvious intent to dig.

I know some of you are thinking of Todd Hoffman when you read this! I'm thinking of several others like the Liberty Bell scam or one of the many other mining schemes that keep popping up in Arizona. Or even several in California. These paper mining "investments" usually only have old rusted equipment or even no equipment so the shiny stuff set up in this area of interest at least looked the part to the inexperienced investor.

Paper "mining" schemes are nothing new and there are several going on at any given time. We see a lot of this side of the business. There is a "sucker born every minute" and often the one fleecing the sucker is a pretend miner. It's sad and eventually miners as a group are going to have to deal with these pretend miners or someone will do it for us. I'm thinking that last possibility would not be good for small miners.

We've been watching this area for nearly a decade. We knew the area would be opening up and now the many IBLA appeals (3+ years) are over the mining claims have been closed and this area is open to prospecting again. If you've been following along you might want to do some exploring this season (we mine in the winter in Arizona). There is private property in this area and eventually there will be more new claims but for now would be a good time to take advantage of any research you've been doing here.

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

Hey aren't the guys from Sleepy Bear also the guys from....oh, nevermind

 

[KevinInColorado]

Same thing as all the paper claims for sale on eBay. Just bigger bling to catch bigger fools.